Do You Accept Children "for Socialization" Reasons? Pros/Cons?

[Crystal]

I think the biggest reason/advantage to children attending preschool or a group program prior to starting kindergarten is that there is alot more expected of children in kindy than there was just one-two generations ago. Kindergarten used to BE preschool. Now it's more like first grade. They are expected to be able to sit still, focus for longer time periods, etc.Teachers want them to know so much more when they enter kindey than was previously expected as well. When they are just learning to be part of a group and "get along" in kindy, it creates issues for them, as well as for the teacher and takes away from the academics.

Personally, I think kindy should STILL be like preschool. I think 5 is too young to be shoving academics down their throats.

[nannyde]

I think the biggest reason/advantage to children attending preschool or a group program prior to starting kindergarten is that there is alot more expected of children in kindy than there was just one-two generations ago. Kindergarten used to BE preschool. Now it's more like first grade. They are expected to be able to sit still, focus for longer time periods, etc.Teachers want them to know so much more when they enter kindey than was previously expected as well. When they are just learning to be part of a group and "get along" in kindy, it creates issues for them, as well as for the teacher and takes away from the academics.

Personally, I think kindy should STILL be like preschool. I think 5 is too young to be shoving academics down their throats.

Yup

I think though that we aren't having better outcomes. This is wrought from the whole American Way of bigger, better, faster, earlier, and the current trend of "I want my kid to be gifted and advanced".

There isn't anything out there I know of with longitudinal studies that show that early exposure to socialization and education actually nets a better kid with identifiable and concrete results. The only thing we really KNOW is that children who are in poor environments (particualarily African American boys) do better in the long run if they are in early childhood programs.

Now the kids do better the first two years of school. You can see a difference in kids in Kindy and First grade. But by the time they enter second grade there's no difference.

We have to think long and hard about what is LOST to gain such a small window of SLIGHTLY higher performance. We know that we need to help get poor kids in underprivledge environments IN environments that are healthy and stable but we don't have to do this for the masses.

Remember that book: Everything I need to know I learned in Kindergarten? It was a blockbuster hit. I'll betcha if that came out now at the same time as Your Baby Can Read that Your baby can read would outsell it in leaps and bounds.

[Crystal]

WOW! ITA Nanny!

Also, I cannot STAND the "your baby can read" and even "baby einstein" type programs....what a crock!

In Ca. there is a push to have the date rolled back for kindy entry....so most children would be close to 6 before they start. I think it is a great idea. I have never understood why we push children to learn things in a structured environment at such a young age. I think that children should have ample opportunties to be outside exploring nature, participating in real-life, hands-on experiences, not only in nature, but in the community as well. They learn so much more when they are doing what comes natural to them, than when they are forced to sit at a table with pencil and worksheets.

[DWTC]

WOW! ITA Nanny!

Also, I cannot STAND the "your baby can read" and even "baby einstein" type programs....what a crock!

In Ca. there is a push to have the date rolled back for kindy entry....so most children would be close to 6 before they start. I think it is a great idea. I have never understood why we push children to learn things in a structured environment at such a young age. I think that children should have ample opportunties to be outside exploring nature, participating in real-life, hands-on experiences, not only in nature, but in the community as well. They learn so much more when they are doing what comes natural to them, than when they are forced to sit at a table with pencil and worksheets.

I agree with both you and nannyde, it seems like parents want their little ones to grow up soooo fast. It already goes fast enough!!! My daughters bday is just after the cutoff, so she will be going to kindergarten when she is just about to turn 6 and I am happy about it because it will be less rush!

[judytrickett]

I think the biggest reason/advantage to children attending preschool or a group program prior to starting kindergarten is that there is alot more expected of children in kindy than there was just one-two generations ago. Kindergarten used to BE preschool. Now it's more like first grade. They are expected to be able to sit still, focus for longer time periods, etc.Teachers want them to know so much more when they enter kindey than was previously expected as well. When they are just learning to be part of a group and "get along" in kindy, it creates issues for them, as well as for the teacher and takes away from the academics.

Personally, I think kindy should STILL be like preschool. I think 5 is too young to be shoving academics down their throats.

I agree. I actually am VERY upfront with interviewing parents that I do not offer a curriculum for this very reason. I do not believe it beneficial to start force-feeding academics to young children. Children need to learn how to "be" first and foremost. I DO watch for what I call teachable moments. I am big on observing a child show a particular interest in something and then taking the time to expand on that.

I think society is going the WRONG way with the public school system.

I started homeschooling my kids for different reasons but NOW this is the main reason - because I don't think the school system in beneficial in many, many ways - ESPECIALLY for the early years groups.

[Crystal]

Exactly Judy. I am right there with you on expanding children's thinking, rather than a cookie cutter curriculum.

I recently read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Toget.../dp/1929610971

It's all about being an intentional teacher and using teachable moments to guide children to constructing knowledge, as well as learning along with them when they are interested in topics we haven't previously studied ourselves. I really enjoyed reading it and am even more into teaching this way than I was before.

I'd do homeschooling if my husband was supportive of it. We have used Charter Schools so that we have more input and involvement, so that does help, but I'd love to try homeschooling.

[judytrickett]

Exactly Judy. I am right there with you on expanding children's thinking, rather than a cookie cutter curriculum.

I recently read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Toget.../dp/1929610971

It's all about being an intentional teacher and using teachable moments to guide children to constructing knowledge, as well as learning along with them when they are interested in topics we haven't previously studied ourselves. I really enjoyed reading it and am even more into teaching this way than I was before.

I'd do homeschooling if my husband was supportive of it. We have used Charter Schools so that we have more input and involvement, so that does help, but I'd love to try homeschooling.

Dumbing Us Down by John Taylor Gatto is an excellent book on how school is now stifling kids ability and passion to really, really learn. Great read.

Also, The Element by Sir Ken Robinson

Weapons of Mass Instruction, again, by John Taylor Gatto.

REAL eye openers.

[DCMom]

This is a very interesting thread. I completely agree about the way our society pushes kids at younger and younger ages. It's something that has really piqued my interest lately.

Thanks for all the reading suggestions~I'm going to amazon.com right now and start ordering

[Crystal]

Judy...how old are your own children that you homeschool? And, if you don't mind sharing, what type of "curriculum" do you use with them?

I have been disgusted with the public school system for years.....it's a broken mess. I had thought that Canada was ahead of the curve with schooling...I'd love to see a system where it is really "right".

[Crystal]

Dumbing Us Down by John Taylor Gatto is an excellent book on how school is now stifling kids ability and passion to really, really learn. Great read.

Also, The Element by Sir Ken Robinson

Weapons of Mass Instruction, again, by John Taylor Gatto.

REAL eye openers.

Nice...I just ordered Dumbing Us Down Thanks for sharing.

[MarinaVanessa]

WOW! ITA Nanny!

Also, I cannot STAND the "your baby can read" and even "baby einstein" type programs....what a crock!

I actually know of several different people that have used products like this and although a child can visually recognize a word by sight by using these products it's approach is unrealistic and you actually spend a lot more time "untraining" some of the things they learn because of the way they teach.

For example "Your Baby Can Read" teaches a child from a very young age to recognize a word by displaying it on the TV, seeing a visual of the object/action and hearing the word spoken. Okay great, is this reading? No. It's memorization. It's much like having a child sing the ABC's but not being able to identify the letters individually. So you teach your 8mo how to memorize the words "kicking", "wave" & "foot" or whatever by saying the word and the 8mo kicks, waves and points to his foot whenever you show the word or say it. Then you find yourself in the predicament of having your 8mo grow to be a 3yo that kicks, waves and points to his foot each time you show him the same words instead of actually reading. I know of 3 families that used this product and they all had the same problem. They then had to reprogram their kids to stop doing the actions and just say the words. It was cute at first to see an 8mo flap his arms every time they showed him a card that read "wave" but after you keep teaching and teaching him over and over again that he doesn't have to actually wave his arms anymore and just has to say the dang word, it doesn't seem so cute anymore, especially at age 3 or 4.

[judytrickett]

Judy...how old are your own children that you homeschool? And, if you don't mind sharing, what type of "curriculum" do you use with them?

I have been disgusted with the public school system for years.....it's a broken mess. I had thought that Canada was ahead of the curve with schooling...I'd love to see a system where it is really "right".

My kids are 7 and 10. We are not a big curriculum based homeschool but we do use www.time4learning.com. I use this because my kids are very visual in their learning style. As with most kids they will excel if you can find the medium in which they learn. We all learn differently. You just have to identify HOW someone learns and the rest is easy.

My kids are the best behaved kids I know. Because they regularly interact with ALL segments of the population they have a better understanding of how people "work". They are great people readers.

They are the most popular kids on the street. Once 4pm hits every kid on the block is at our doorstep asking them to play because they are different faces then all the school kids had to look at and play with all day at school.
We have SOOOO much family time because we don't have homework. Kids my son's age are now doing up to 2 hours a night in homework here in my city. That is A LOT of robbed family together time. And as homeschoolers we are able to jet set off whenever we so chose as a family as both hubby and I are self-employed. Every Friday we spend the day off as a family. We are a very, very close family unit because of homeschooling in a lot of ways. We eat 3 square meals together every day. My kids spend 24/7 with me.

I don't have the morning rush around trying to get pizza day money or find returned library books or permission slips. I don't have kids coming home in tears because one friend did not invite them to the sleep over. My kids don't get bullied or BE bullies because they are not in that atmosphere.

There is soooo much that I am grateful I don't, and my kids don't, have to deal with because they are not in school.

I wouldn't change it for the world.

[professionalmom]

Judy...how old are your own children that you homeschool? And, if you don't mind sharing, what type of "curriculum" do you use with them?

I have been disgusted with the public school system for years.....it's a broken mess. I had thought that Canada was ahead of the curve with schooling...I'd love to see a system where it is really "right".

I'm very curious too. Once we get done with our move, I will be investigating the different curriculums out there so I can prepare to home school our girls when the time comes (approx. 3 more years). I have been interested in it for 15 years (I started preparing for motherhood and researching since my early adult years).

ITA that our current school system is pushing WAY too hard at a dangerously early age. My cousin's son was in kindy or 1st this past year and as part of their "curriculum", they were learning about the Holocaust!! At ages 5 and 6! That's when I said, "Heck, no. Over my dead body will I allow my child to learn about THAT at that young of an age." Sorry, but I refuse to purposefully cause my child nightmares.

Isn't it strange that we spent most of our childhood wanting to be grown-ups, but spend most of our adult years yearning for the carefree time of childhood? Then we are supposed to rush our children through their fun, carefree childhood and get them into academic ASAP? Let's give them a chance to be kids for a little while. It'll be gone far too soon.

What would really shock me was when parents of a baby or toddler would ask me what type of curriculum I offer in my daycare! How about sitting, crawling, walking, talking, etc.? Does that count as "curriculum"?

[professionalmom]

We have SOOOO much family time because we don't have homework. Kids my son's age are now doing up to 2 hours a night in homework here in my city. That is A LOT of robbed family together time. And as homeschoolers we are able to jet set off whenever we so chose as a family as both hubby and I are self-employed. Every Friday we spend the day off as a family. We are a very, very close family unit because of homeschooling in a lot of ways. We eat 3 square meals together every day. My kids spend 24/7 with me.

This is one of the biggest reasons I want to home school. TIME! My mom worked with me (prepared me for school) before I went to kindy, so I was always in the advanced classes and such in school. Yet, it never seemed challenging enough. I hated sitting and waiting for the teachers to explain the concepts to the other children. It was a LOT of wasted time for me. When I first heard about home schooling, I thought, Wow, you could educate your children in a very small, intimate, one-on-one environment for maybe 2 hours a day and then let them be kids for a bigger chunk of their day. That changes everything for a child. Instead of school being a drag and a bore, it's fun and exciting, especially at 2-3 hours a day! Plus, I don't think that all this "homework" that kids get today is really needed, not if their time at school was used more efficiently.

More time to play, more time to be with mom and dad, more time to travel (and REALLY learn)! Exactly what I want for my family.

[QualiTcare]

The short answer is NO, I would not. First off, I think the whole socialization thing is a load of BS. For centuries families lived on remote farms and homesteads and had no, formal, scheduled, socialization. And, IMO, people were a hell of a lot more rounded and considerate and "socialized" than they are now.

My kids are homeschooled. They don't hang out with kids all day and they are some of the most "socialized" people I know. TRUE socialization occurs when in the presence of ALL age groups as that is a reflection of society. Not just being plunked into a room full of people exactly the same age with the same abilities, view points, interests etc. How does one become 'socialized' in a setting where everyone is exactly the same?

i don't think it's BS. if it were, then i wouldn't be working with a preschool director to get my son in when i work full time and have free childcare via his grandma. it is going to benefit ME in no way whatsoever - it will only cost me money. i'm trying to work it out so i can get him to preschool in time, my daughter to school in time, and still make it to work in time. other than losing money and the added stress to my schedule - i see no BS.

furthermore (not just to you, but everyone) kids may have done OK years ago when they entered kindergarten without being "socialized." then again, that was when kids didn't do much more than color, eat snack, and take a nap in kindergarten. teachers actually had some flexibility to have fun and "standards" didn't exist. they could teach about dinosaurs all year long if they wanted to.

NOW - kindergarteners are actually expected to begin reading, adding, subtracting - and there are goals that have to be met. nap? uhh, NO! kids who have had a routine and are in a structured environment have a much longer attention span and the social skills to adjust. i know - i've worked in kindergarten, and you can tell a kid that has never been away from home in a heartbeat.