Is There Even A Point?

[MN Mom]

To "potty training" a kid (3) who is not verbal enough to tell you they have to go?

DCB 3 was back on Wednesday after a long break. Mom said she was working on potty training with him at home. She said he went 1 full day without diapers. I thought..."Great!!!"....but then she said she had to ask him every 20 min or so if he needed to go (to which he'd nod his head yes 100% of the time). She said there are 3 pair of underwear and an extra outfit in his bag if you want to try.

He is sleeping when he gets here at 6:45, and will sleep until 12pm unless I wake him. I woke him at 8:45, and he was dry so I set him on the toilet (didn't even ask) and he peed. He KNOWS what to do. I let him sit on the potty for awhile, to make sure he didn't need to poop. I asked if he was done, he shook his head yes. I said we are going to try underwear now, if you need to poop..you tell me and I will help you. Can you do that??? (Nods head yes).

5 min later he CRAPPED HIS PANTS. There wasn't even a visible facial cue or hiding in a corner, or squatting down, pushing like my 4 kids at PT age. He. Just. Crapped!!!!! And then proceeded to play in it until I noticed the smell.....

I take him to the toilet every time his diaper is dry and have been since he was 2 years old. BUT I don't think me asking him every 20 min if he needs to go is potty training. He's 3, he should be able to express in some way that he needs to go..right??? Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he had his mom trained over break, not the other way around?

DCM is preggers so I understand her desperation to get him potty trained...but I think until she realizes the delay in communication he has, it will not happen to a point he will tell her (or me, or dad) that he has to go. He honestly doesn't care if his pants are wet, or poopie. It doesn't phase him at all. GRRRRRR!!!!

[williams2008]

I potty trained a non verbal autistic child when I worked in a public school a few years back. She couldn't communicate with you at all as far as shaking/nodding head when asked questions. I took her to the bathroom every 45 min, she still had accidents here and there but she eventually started going into the bathroom by herself! Before I quit working in the school district she was fully potty trained!

Now, I have 2 dck's that are 2 who understands and goes potty by themselves at home (at least that's what the dcm's tell me) who I have to ask every 30 minutes if they need to go potty:confused:

[bunnyslippers]

I have potty trained many non-verbal special needs kids. One option would be to give him access to a photo of a potty, so he has a non-verbal way to communicate his needs. Another option would be the ASL sign for bathroom.

That being said, you are in a daycare situation and not a school situation. If you are not up for the challenge (and I wouldn't be, in your shoes), then tell his mother he has to be trained at home, completely, first. I usually recommend parents try it over an extended break at home.

And, if he is 3 and has NO communication skills, he needs to be evaluated by a speech pathologist. That is pretty old for no communication in any way.

Good Luck!!!

[MN Mom]

I have potty trained many non-verbal special needs kids. One option would be to give him access to a photo of a potty, so he has a non-verbal way to communicate his needs. Another option would be the ASL sign for bathroom.

That being said, you are in a daycare situation and not a school situation. If you are not up for the challenge (and I wouldn't be, in your shoes), then tell his mother he has to be trained at home, completely, first. I usually recommend parents try it over an extended break at home.

And, if he is 3 and has NO communication skills, he needs to be evaluated by a speech pathologist. That is pretty old for no communication in any way.

Good Luck!!!

He CAN communicate. He just doesn't. He talks to my kids all the time. Not very clearly (like maybe that of a 12-18 month old). He talks to his mom too. He just wont talk to me ever, nor will he tell any adult he needs to potty. I think he has a form of selective multisim. I don't think. I know. I've expressed my concerns to mom many times. She just laughs it off. His older brother was in head-start when with me (m-f, 11:30 - 3:30). I hope she sends him too...though I don't know if they take non potty trained 3-4s?

I could give him a picture of the potty, but he would never use it. I've told him he can just come tug on my leg if he needs to go, he won't do that either. When he wants something, he will sometimes come and stare at me or my husband. No words, just staring...and you have to play 20 questions (to which he will nod yes to all of them) to figure out what he wants. I'm really sad, because he's such a CUTE little boy, and very kind, very sweet. He was STARTING to make more noise (cooing, and such which he never did as a baby) with me right before vacation, and now we are back to square 1 with him being quiet as a mouse all day. He's so quiet, when people stop by during the week, they wouldn't know he was even here if I didn't make it known.

[LaLa1923]

I think three is waiting until the last second to potty train IMO. Obvs not your fault, I'd just do it.

I have potty trained 4 and i still have to remind my 7 yr old ds to go potty.

He also was potty trained with pee first, weird if you ask me but kids can be strange ::

[Blackcat31]

MN Mom, I hear and agree with your frustration. I have a very nonverbal DCK who is roughly the same age as yours. Mom wants this one trained too because a newbie is on the way so I get it but I won't let it be my problem.

I think it is important that kids be able to express themselves in some way shape or form to be toilet trained here. I can't just read their mind or assume they need to go or even take time to routinely sit them on the toilet.

If mom wants to train him, I would tell her to go for it but at your house he has to wear pull ups or diapers untilhe is capable of either telling you he needs to go or simply going on his own.

Mine is 80% there. They don't verbally tell me they need to go but they do go by themselves when they do need to go. They are skilled in dressing and undressing (thankfully) so the need to "tell" me isn't really necessary....although I would prefer it, it isn't necessary. kwim?

So maybe aproach mom from that angle. He needs to be able to go into the bathroom and undress and redress on his own. That's enough communication for me to know what he is doing, needing or wanting to do.

I wouldn't stress about it though. You can only support a child who is engaged in a healthy training process. You can't force it, take control of it or let it be your problem.

Support mom in teaching self help skills first if the verbal part isn't there. But no way wouuld I be simply taking a kid to the bathroom every 30 minutes or so or asking him and waiting for a nod or reply.

[itlw8]

being verbal is not a criteria for toilet training. what about deaf children?

You can teach him the sign for potty

my question is if the child is non verbal at 3 WHY and are they getting him help. At 3 the child should have many words..

Truthfully none of my kids tell me they have to go to the bathroom. They are either at the stage I remind them go at regular intervals or they just go themselves.

So is it worth it.... yes the child needs to learn. It would have been easier when the child was younger but they still have to master it.

Sorry to those who do not believe but BRIBE him.... m n ms work wonders.

[itlw8]

starting at age 3 children qualify for early childhood special ed including speech and OT non verbal should qualify him. Mom needs to call the school district and get testing started. Including a hearing test.

In the mean time learn and teach him ad all the children some signs. one at a time ad use them daily

cracker, milk, cookie,potty, shoes, more, please, sorry, pizza, mommy, daddy, start there and add more. The kids love it so it helps the child that needs help.

Please encourage dcm to contact the school and get testing started.

[DaisyMamma]

oh HE** no! Pullups until accident free for two weeks. One day is not nearly enough.

[TBird]

I potty trained a non verbal autistic child when I worked in a public school a few years back. She couldn't communicate with you at all as far as shaking/nodding head when asked questions. I took her to the bathroom every 45 min, she still had accidents here and there but she eventually started going into the bathroom by herself! Before I quit working in the school district she was fully potty trained!

Now, I have 2 dck's that are 2 who understands and goes potty by themselves at home (at least that's what the dcm's tell me) who I have to ask every 30 minutes if they need to go potty:confused:

I agree! Non-verbal and/or autistic kids can totally be potty trained. It's hard convincing their parents of that sometimes though.

[MN Mom]

starting at age 3 children qualify for early childhood special ed including speech and OT non verbal should qualify him. Mom needs to call the school district and get testing started. Including a hearing test.

In the mean time learn and teach him ad all the children some signs. one at a time ad use them daily

cracker, milk, cookie,potty, shoes, more, please, sorry, pizza, mommy, daddy, start there and add more. The kids love it so it helps the child that needs help.

Please encourage dcm to contact the school and get testing started.

I would LOVE for him to learn signs. He will not use them. He doesn't even parrot me. He never has...believe me when I say I've tried. It always ends up with me being frustrated and depressed because he can't /won't. He talks at home among his brothers (and mom insists he talks to her and dad). He talks to my kids. He just will NOT talk to me or my DH, and is now starting to not talk to my 13 year old. He won't mimic, he won't participate in singing, clapping, nothing unless its around little kids. I've tried spanish and english with him. Still no response...just stares and nods. I used to think it was just plain stubbornness, but seriously...how can he go alone ALL day with not making a sound around me? I talk to him constantly, but really feel like I'm talking to a corner .

When he does talk to other kids, it is not enunciated, and it's very nasally sounding. He can hear me fine though, because I will call his name (both quite whisper and loud) when he's not looking and he will turn around.

[Country Kids]

Has something happened to him that he won't speak to adults? It sounds like that to me because of him now not talking to your 13 year old. Like he sees the 13 year old turning into an adult and then the trust is gone. If he talks to the little ones it sounds like he trusts them but not adults.

[MN Mom]

Has something happened to him that he won't speak to adults? It sounds like that to me because of him now not talking to your 13 year old. Like he sees the 13 year old turning into an adult and then the trust is gone. If he talks to the little ones it sounds like he trusts them but not adults.

Not that I'm aware of. I've only ever seen bruises and scrapes on him once the entire time he's been here. Mom called him out 2 days in a row last year. When he came back his arm was bruised and burned/scrapped, and so was his leg and face. She said her middle child turned the dryer on with DCB inside. He never went to the doctor AFIK though. It was suspicious...but it's the ONLY time he's ever shown signs of injury and the parents didn't act scared or weird when I asked what happened.

He's been quite with me since he was a baby though. Never cooed, never babbled, he would only cry when needed changed or fed or held. He never smiled much either. I can get him to laugh hysterically now though when I do my silly dance for him.

Today he found a Christmas ornament my son made for me under the tree. It has my sons picture in it. My son spends a lot of time at DCB's house because he's really good friends with middle child, so DCB knows my son well. He showed me the ornament, and pointed at my son's picture. I said "Who is that? Can you tell me his name? Who is that silly boy?!?" and he just kept pointing. I repeated my question and then he pointed to under the tree where he found it. He knows my son, and his name but wouldn't tell me when asked.

[daycare]

I think I win the cake when it comes to PT issues, parents and children......


Here is what I did. I had one that was 3yrs old and one that was 4yrs old.

I tell them to go to the bathroom. THey MUST go on their own. they must be able to take down their own pants, sit on the toilet and etc.....

If they can't do that, then I won't even try to PT them.

What I have found that works with those kids that are defiant or struggle, is for the first 30 days to tell them to go to the bathroom every 25-30 min. They must go on their own. If they have an accident, at this age, they can clean it up on their own too. I hold them accountable for their bodies.


After that, I stop telling them and see what happens.... Usually, they will start asking me to go to the toilet around week 3. If after the 30 days has passed and I see NO results then I stop. No more. This means that they are not ready or that the parents are not doing it at home...

In the start of PT I also print out my policies and expectation of PT with the parents while at home. I make it very clear to the parents that if we are all not doing the same thing here and at home that I WILL NOT continue to assist in PTing.

I don't let the parents run the show with PTing when it comes to my house. If they tell me that their child is PT at home, I say great let's see if we can get them to do it here for at least two solid weeks so that we can get them into underwear...

honestly I can't stand having to PT kids......Why, cuz most parents these days are lazy and expect us to do it.....

[Country Kids]

I would think there is more going on. You know he can talk because he talks to the kids he's with. Does you middle child ever hear him talk at his house when he is over there? There must be something witht the adults that makes him not communicate with him.

How long was he in the dryer!!! He would have had to be in there long enough to receive burn so that isn't a quick thing. That poor little guy and to only be 2 when that happened.