State Funded Assistance Program Issues *vent*

[thatdivalady]

Sooooooooo for the state funded child care assistance program here the way it works is:

1. Parent requests you as their daycare provider
2. They communicate that to their caseworker
3. A Provider Rep contacts you to set up an orientation

Or so they say.

I'm really upset because I just lost two families and a total of 4 children because the office does not follow their own policies. One mother had to start a new job and it literally took the office 10 days for a return phone call AND harassing them everyday.

So when I finally talk to the person I am supposed to talk to, I'm told that the mother requested another provider. Duh, really? So I ask if I can do the orientation anyway as a proactive measure and I'm told that they cannot do that. Their policy is that the parent has to request me first. I kindly remind them that two parents have done that and due to the delay on their office's side, they have chosen other providers because they could not work without having daycare in place...

Seriously this is a lot of trouble to go through to help low income parents when the state only pays a certain low amount and you don't get paid for 5-6 weeks after services are provided. Makes me want to stay private pay only! Grrrr

[allsmiles]

WOW.. that does sound frustrating..
here, they allow you to complete the orientation as long as you are registered/licensed with the state..its offered a few times a year and you just call and sign up.
hope they get it together for you soon..

[My3cents]

Sooooooooo for the state funded child care assistance program here the way it works is:

1. Parent requests you as their daycare provider
2. They communicate that to their caseworker
3. A Provider Rep contacts you to set up an orientation

Or so they say.

I'm really upset because I just lost two families and a total of 4 children because the office does not follow their own policies. One mother had to start a new job and it literally took the office 10 days for a return phone call AND harassing them everyday.

So when I finally talk to the person I am supposed to talk to, I'm told that the mother requested another provider. Duh, really? So I ask if I can do the orientation anyway as a proactive measure and I'm told that they cannot do that. Their policy is that the parent has to request me first. I kindly remind them that two parents have done that and due to the delay on their office's side, they have chosen other providers because they could not work without having daycare in place...

Seriously this is a lot of trouble to go through to help low income parents when the state only pays a certain low amount and you don't get paid for 5-6 weeks after services are provided. Makes me want to stay private pay only! Grrrr

so basically you have an orientation to listen to the state tell you how it is going to be and that you can't hurt the feelings of someone that is on assistance- forget it, been there done that route- I would go private pay if you are able to do that. Why wouldn't you want to be proactive and manage your time so that if someone comes into your care that may be on assistance you are ready? Doesn't make sense. I am my own boss not the state being the boss of me and my clients. The hassles that come along with having to deal with all of that are not worth it. My rules are for everyone, I don't want the state telling me what to do in my business. They want to climb on board with me fine, and help out their client fine, but respect me and the way that I run.

[Meeko]

Most state assistance programs are run by idiots. Sorry to sound harsh, but even though Utah is one the best for being "provider friendly" now.......it wasn't always that way and they still have a ways to go.

Years ago. we had to provide the care, then fill out reams of paperwork which weighed a ton. We had to pay the postage ourselves. It took several months before we saw a dime.

Somebody finally realized that this wasn't fair to providers ......duh

So somebody decided that the daycare parents needed to be more part of the process and that THEY should be the one handing over the money. That was a HUGE mess. Parents were supposed to go to an ATM, and draw out the CASH to pay their provider.

So......low income welfare recipients were supposed to draw out hundreds...even thousands of dollars if they had a boatload of kids.....and hand it over to their provider.

Guess how many providers heard "There wasn't enough on the card". "The ATM didn't work". I even got "I had to pay my rent!" ???????

It was simply too much of a temptation for many of them to keep their mitts off the cash. December was a riot. They were taking the cash and spending it on Christmas instead of paying their providers!!!!!! They had to pay it back, but in the meantime providers waited for their money.

So somebody at state level looked confused and said "Oh...I guess that wasn't a good idea". Ya think!

They finally ASKED US and some changes were made which is better for us.!!!!!!!!

Providers are pre-approved by the state. Parents now just have a provider fill out a "980 form" and turn it into the state for their own approval. After that, funds are paid, IN ADVANCE, onto the parents welfare card. The provider has a pin number. The monthly fee is transferred automatically to the providers bank acct with the push of a few buttons.

No money on the card? No daycare services. Providers have a special website we can go to near the end of the month and check to see if funds are there for the following month. That way we can give the parent a heads up that care will end if they don't get their case in order.

We can charge what we like and the parent must make up any difference between what the state pays and the provider charges. Only rule is, we cannot charge welfare recipients more that self-pay clients.

It's not perfect, but I know it's better than some states.

I wouldn't take state assistance any more if it was in arrears and that I had to take less money that self-pay clients.

[Heidi]

Most state assistance programs are run by idiots. Sorry to sound harsh, but even though Utah is one the best for being "provider friendly" now.......it wasn't always that way and they still have a ways to go.

Years ago. we had to provide the care, then fill out reams of paperwork which weighed a ton. We had to pay the postage ourselves. It took several months before we saw a dime.

Somebody finally realized that this wasn't fair to providers ......duh

So somebody decided that the daycare parents needed to be more part of the process and that THEY should be the one handing over the money. That was a HUGE mess. Parents were supposed to go to an ATM, and draw out the CASH to pay their provider.

So......low income welfare recipients were supposed to draw out hundreds...even thousands of dollars if they had a boatload of kids.....and hand it over to their provider.

Guess how many providers heard "There wasn't enough on the card". "The ATM didn't work". I even got "I had to pay my rent!" ???????

It was simply too much of a temptation for many of them to keep their mitts off the cash. December was a riot. They were taking the cash and spending it on Christmas instead of paying their providers!!!!!! They had to pay it back, but in the meantime providers waited for their money.

So somebody at state level looked confused and said "Oh...I guess that wasn't a good idea". Ya think!

They finally ASKED US and some changes were made which is better for us.!!!!!!!!

Providers are pre-approved by the state. Parents now just have a provider fill out a "980 form" and turn it into the state for their own approval. After that, funds are paid, IN ADVANCE, onto the parents welfare card. The provider has a pin number. The monthly fee is transferred automatically to the providers bank acct with the push of a few buttons.

No money on the card? No daycare services. Providers have a special website we can go to near the end of the month and check to see if funds are there for the following month. That way we can give the parent a heads up that care will end if they don't get their case in order.

We can charge what we like and the parent must make up any difference between what the state pays and the provider charges. Only rule is, we cannot charge welfare recipients more that self-pay clients.

It's not perfect, but I know it's better than some states.

I wouldn't take state assistance any more if it was in arrears and that I had to take less money that self-pay clients.

I like that system, Wisconsin could take a lesson. We still get paid after the fact, and even if you enter online (which is a nice option), it still takes weeks. This last year, family providers got dumped on big time and they put us all on attendance based, capping at 35 hours. So..you have a kid for 50 hours one week (40 hour work week, plus lunch and travel time), and 10 the next (kiddo was sick), and you get paid for 35 hours week 1, 10 the next. No holidays, no vacation time, no parent vacation, no sick days.

In the meantime, the FCCER's, which the state is using for Youngstar, gives you points for good business practices like contracting for time off. Because, of course, providers NEED time off recharge or go to trainings. The state's (or the people who you ask) answer's range from "oh, the parents just have to make it up themselves" to "well (to the parent) you just can't afford family child care".

No orientation, but you can bet your butt that when a provider makes a mistake in their billing (that they offer no training on), they will be accused of fraud when they are audited. What no one seems to understand is that by putting us on attendance based pay, SOME providers might be more tempted to lie and claim hours the child was home sick, etc. Parents have asked providers I know to "just write them down, I won't tell anyone". The parents don't realize that this is fraud-they just don't want their provider jipped. Every provider I know whose had a parent say this says "oh no..can't do that". But, what about a less "educated" provider who doesn't realize what that could do? Remember, no training....

arggghhhh.....

[Countrygal]

I like that system, Wisconsin could take a lesson. We still get paid after the fact, and even if you enter online (which is a nice option), it still takes weeks. This last year, family providers got dumped on big time and they put us all on attendance based, capping at 35 hours. So..you have a kid for 50 hours one week (40 hour work week, plus lunch and travel time), and 10 the next (kiddo was sick), and you get paid for 35 hours week 1, 10 the next. No holidays, no vacation time, no parent vacation, no sick days.

In the meantime, the FCCER's, which the state is using for Youngstar, gives you points for good business practices like contracting for time off. Because, of course, providers NEED time off recharge or go to trainings. The state's (or the people who you ask) answer's range from "oh, the parents just have to make it up themselves" to "well (to the parent) you just can't afford family child care".

No orientation, but you can bet your butt that when a provider makes a mistake in their billing (that they offer no training on), they will be accused of fraud when they are audited. What no one seems to understand is that by putting us on attendance based pay, SOME providers might be more tempted to lie and claim hours the child was home sick, etc. Parents have asked providers I know to "just write them down, I won't tell anyone". The parents don't realize that this is fraud-they just don't want their provider jipped. Every provider I know whose had a parent say this says "oh no..can't do that". But, what about a less "educated" provider who doesn't realize what that could do? Remember, no training....

arggghhhh.....

Yep, our system stinks. I have waited up to 3 weeks to get a check. My last check was mailed on the 10th and they claim they did not receive it until the 17th..... yeah, right. What office was it sitting in then? I won't even get THAT check before Christmas! The family is gone, I have no idea how much money they still owe me or what I still have coming. It is utterly rediculous. I am supposed to attempt to figure what their final bill is/was when I still have a full and a partial check coming from the state and I won't receive these until the family has been gone for like 5 weeks!!! HUH???? How about you let me run this program?

[kitykids3]

I'm in WI too and I hate our system. I have been lucky to have 99.5% private pay. I don't like waiting to get the check from w2, but I make the parents pay in advance anyways, so I still get paid. Now that I get a 5% bonus for having 4 stars (and hopefully 25% in March if I get 5 stars), and getting used to filling out and sending back the time sheets, I am starting to like it more. Either way, I have parents make up the difference, even for holidays, vacation, etc.
OK, I guess I just really like the bonus.

Heidi, Where do you get that they capped it at 35 hours?? The one child I have on w2 gets 45 hours a week. Perhaps that 35 is just for that child?

[Heidi]

I'm in WI too and I hate our system. I have been lucky to have 99.5% private pay. I don't like waiting to get the check from w2, but I make the parents pay in advance anyways, so I still get paid. Now that I get a 5% bonus for having 4 stars (and hopefully 25% in March if I get 5 stars), and getting used to filling out and sending back the time sheets, I am starting to like it more. Either way, I have parents make up the difference, even for holidays, vacation, etc.
OK, I guess I just really like the bonus.

Heidi, Where do you get that they capped it at 35 hours?? The one child I have on w2 gets 45 hours a week. Perhaps that 35 is just for that child?

No...state policy says 35 hours. Everyone was supposed to change over last year. If you are getting an authorization for over that, then count your blessings, and don't call attention to it!

Most of mine are private pay, too, and sometime this next year, they all will be. Sad thing? I will be the only 4 star program in the county (5 once my degee is done), and everyone except CountryGal (who is a 3 right now, like me, maybe will be 4 next time, if she wants to go through it). Everyone else is 2 star. I will probably be a 4 star and have no room for state funded kids....irony....


why? because my private pay families pay by the week, pay holidays, and pay by enrollment. Why would I fill one of my 4-8 spots with a state-funded family who can't do that? I AM doing this to make a living, after all. Not as a hobby, and I'm not a charity organization. So....all this quality improvement, I predict, will be a whole lot of poor people who still can't afford the " high quality" programs, while the 'rich kids" will continue to get the high-quality care.

[Heidi]

Yep, our system stinks. I have waited up to 3 weeks to get a check. My last check was mailed on the 10th and they claim they did not receive it until the 17th..... yeah, right. What office was it sitting in then? I won't even get THAT check before Christmas! The family is gone, I have no idea how much money they still owe me or what I still have coming. It is utterly rediculous. I am supposed to attempt to figure what their final bill is/was when I still have a full and a partial check coming from the state and I won't receive these until the family has been gone for like 5 weeks!!! HUH???? How about you let me run this program?

Country...you NEED to sign up for the online system. It means you can look at authorizations and payments as they happen, and submit billing. Here is the link:

https://www.dwd.state.wi.us/DWSCCPI/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fDWSCCPI%2fSecure%2fDefault.aspx

It takes a few days to get access, but it's way worth the trouble!

BTW: funny thing, their computer system is totally religious...it rests on Sundays....... No kidding, it's been years since I've heard of a computer system that needs to be taken down EVERY week for maintenance....

[nanglgrl]

Our system in Iowa isn't too bad though there is always room for improvement.
Years ago we had to fill out an attendance sheet, send or take it and and would usually get paid within 2 weeks (but not always, once I waited for months). If it was a new client who had just applied for assistance we could call (with the client giving permission for us to do so to their worker) and they would tell us if the client was approved and the worker just hadn't gotten the paperwork finished, how many units they were approved for, copay and the start date. They could also tell us if the client still needed to send in more verification or if they were denied. If they were up for review we could do the same. This was helpful in cases where people would say they were approved and just waiting on paperwork and providers started them and waited for paperwork only to find out they never applied, were denied etc. and the client would disappear owing money. It never happened to me as I had them pay until I got the paperwork or worker approval and then paid them back but a friend watched 3 children full time for a month and was never able to get her money. Now the worker is not allowed to tell us anything even with client approval.
We still have the option of billing through the mail and getting our checks through the mail but we can also bill online and get our checks directly deposited which is quicker. Online shows us if a family is approved and for how many units and what their copay is. I billed today and usually get my money direct deposited on Thursday next week but with the holidays it will probably be Monday.
The main problems with are system are:
-We get 4 days per month to claim the child absent but it can't be used for our holidays, vacation etc. and can only be used if they call in. Which seems to be a lot rarer than my private pay calling in and my private pay pay if they are gone for any reason and for holidays.
-We are paid by unit. A unit equals 5 hours so if a child is approved for anything from 1-5 hours a day we get paid one amount and if they are approved from 5-10 we are paid twice as much. This sounds great and it used to work nicely. Most of us get paid a lot less by the state than we charge private pay. The state caps what they will pay and we can't charge the client the difference. In the old days a client would be here for lets say 6 hours and we would get paid for 10 which would sort of make up for us getting paid less. Now it seems a lot of the state pay clients have caught on that a unit equals 5 hours and they all bring their children for exactly 10 hours a day. The only children I've had for 10 hours a day in the last 5 years have been state pay. So I'm paid less for the children that are here the longest.
-What we are paid per unit is years behind what we should be paid. We are slowly catching up to the 2012 provider surveys but it is a slow process. Also, they determine our rate based on an average of what providers charge in all of Iowa. Iowa has more small towns than big ones and providers in small tows tend to charge a lot less. I live in a big town and the rate the state pays is from $25-45 less than what I charge my private pay. They also pay less based on the age of the child. I charge the same rate no matter the age and have a minimum pay. The state doesn't care.
-One of my biggest grievances is even though we bill online we are required to print the record (usually 4 pages per child), have the parent sign it and save it for 5 years! That's a lot of money spent on printer ink for clients I get paid less for, who are here more and a lot of papers to keep around.
-Holidays screw everything up. I never know when I will get paid when state offices are closed for a day or two because of holidays. I believe our union negotiated a cap on the amount of time it takes to pay us but it would really be nice if they would plan ahead for days they are closed so we can get paid on time.
-Clients are usually approved for 6 months at a time and then have to renew. I just charge the client during these times and then when/if they are re-approved I pay them back. This works for me but last year a client had her approval taken away before her renewal time for some odd reason. 3 months after she was approved the state said they didn't have some paperwork they needed. I think she made someone mad so they made trouble. Anyway I was never informed and went to bill the client for the prior two weeks as usual only to find out she wasn't showing up on my billing site. It was a hot mess.
-I think our program needs to have the income limits changed. It annoys me so much when I have a state pay client who's child wears name brand shoes (even though they cant walk), gets their nails and hair done and goes to expensive concerts I can't even afford.
-I also think their needs to be more over site on the clients work hours. Too many times a child has been dropped off and mom doesn't look like she's going to work or they accidentally say something that makes me think their child was with me and they were home, the grocery or the doctor. If I have to take my children to the doctor and grocery store with me so should they.
-The state also makes it hard for clients to get off of the program. The more money they make the more of a co-pay they pay which sounds great except there is a huge gap. I had a parent who was getting assistance for her 3 children equaling $1200 monthly. In addition she had a copay of about $300 a month. She earned a raise of a $1 an hour ($160 a month) and it put her over the income limit so she was supposed to start paying the entire $1500 a month when she was previously paying $300. I'm not saying she couldn't afford it but they require no income counseling for these parents so the more they make the more they spend and they don't plan ahead for when they have to start paying for daycare. Then when they make too much for assistance they have nice cars eating up their income and high rent so they really don't have the extra money for daycare. KWIM? I've seen people quit their jobs or ask not to get a raise to avoid loosing their assistance.
I run a quality daycare and have taken a lot of state pay clients in the past but after my current state pay clients leave or age out I probably will not accept state pay in the future. I get paid less, am paid after care instead of before care like my private pay clients, they are here more and I have to do more as far as paperwork for them. It's sad but if the state want's underprivileged children to receive quality care they are going to have to make a lot of changes as most quality providers I know do not accept state pay because they could get a private pay for less hours, more money and no extra paperwork.

[kitykids3]

No...state policy says 35 hours. Everyone was supposed to change over last year. If you are getting an authorization for over that, then count your blessings, and don't call attention to it!

Most of mine are private pay, too, and sometime this next year, they all will be. Sad thing? I will be the only 4 star program in the county (5 once my degee is done), and everyone except CountryGal (who is a 3 right now, like me, maybe will be 4 next time, if she wants to go through it). Everyone else is 2 star. I will probably be a 4 star and have no room for state funded kids....irony....


why? because my private pay families pay by the week, pay holidays, and pay by enrollment. Why would I fill one of my 4-8 spots with a state-funded family who can't do that? I AM doing this to make a living, after all. Not as a hobby, and I'm not a charity organization. So....all this quality improvement, I predict, will be a whole lot of poor people who still can't afford the " high quality" programs, while the 'rich kids" will continue to get the high-quality care.

Just out of curiousity what county are you in? I'm guessing not Milwaukee. Altho it is quite rare to have 4 star even in busy, populated Milwaukee.

That's funny cuz it's a new authorization just started in October, but maybe it was cuz she is a foster child. I don't see anywhere that it's capped at 35. I understand that some w2 parents can't afford more than what state assistance is giving them, but don't you make the parents make up the rest? If I had inquiries from w2 parents that couldn't make up the difference, I wouldn't fill one of my spots with them either, so I agree with everything you say.

[Heidi]

Just out of curiousity what county are you in? I'm guessing not Milwaukee. Altho it is quite rare to have 4 star even in busy, populated Milwaukee.

That's funny cuz it's a new authorization just started in October, but maybe it was cuz she is a foster child. I don't see anywhere that it's capped at 35. I understand that some w2 parents can't afford more than what state assistance is giving them, but don't you make the parents make up the rest? If I had inquiries from w2 parents that couldn't make up the difference, I wouldn't fill one of my spots with them either, so I agree with everything you say.

Hey-I missed your question because I was on vacation. I will see if I can find where the cap is documented. I know it was in a memo, and it's probably in a manual somewhere. I am in Juneau County, my sis is in Dane, and we both got the same info.

Found it: http://dcf.wisconsin.gov/childcare/wishares/rates.htm
Ok...so it turns out that they WILL do authorizations for more than 35 hours, but the weekly "Cap" is the max hourly rate x 35. So, whether a child is in care 35 hours or 45, the state pays the same. Oh, unless the child is absent, on vacation, or you're closed, because they only pay on attendance.

I resent how they play it both ways. Either cap it and pay by enrollment, or pay by the hour...for EVERY hour.

We have had caseworkers tell parents "you cannot afford family child care". Because, providers have asked families to pay the difference for absent days. Because centers get authorizations based on enrollment, and as of August 27, 2011 (Happy Birthday me), family childcare is attendance based only. Meanwhile, under "Good business practices" in the Youngstar points scale, it says "Provider contracts for PAID time off". sheesh....

[kitykids3]

Yeah, I hate that they switched over to attendance based only. But, like I said, either parents pay ALL the difference or they don't stay. I've never had a problem, although my YS tech consultant made me make a completely separate contract for parents to sign on paid holidays, vaca, etc. because he told me a lot of w2 parents can't/won't pay for those. I thought that weird, but like you said, it's a requirement for YS.
What's funny is they pay me their hourly rate instead of mine, which theirs is higher. If they paid me my hourly rate, the parents could be approved for more hours. It's more wasteful spending IMO. Plus, why have me send in my rate sheet if they just pay whatever they pay anyway.
Both state assistance and YoungStar have quite a few hiccups to work out. Hopefully someday. In the meantime, I am grateful to have all families that can afford my care.

[Heidi]

Yeah, I hate that they switched over to attendance based only. But, like I said, either parents pay ALL the difference or they don't stay. I've never had a problem, although my YS tech consultant made me make a completely separate contract for parents to sign on paid holidays, vaca, etc. because he told me a lot of w2 parents can't/won't pay for those. I thought that weird, but like you said, it's a requirement for YS.
What's funny is they pay me their hourly rate instead of mine, which theirs is higher. If they paid me my hourly rate, the parents could be approved for more hours. It's more wasteful spending IMO. Plus, why have me send in my rate sheet if they just pay whatever they pay anyway.
Both state assistance and YoungStar have quite a few hiccups to work out. Hopefully someday. In the meantime, I am grateful to have all families that can afford my care.

What I've done in response is to set an hourly DROP IN rate that is much higher than the contracted-hours rate. So, each family has an option of paying the drop-in rate for attendance only, or they can pay the contracted rate on for enrollment. In my case, the hourly rate is $5.00 per hour, while my weekly rate is $130. But, that rate is regardless of attendance. So, if a drop in child is here 35 hours, they would be paying $192.50 for that week.

Keep in mind, that the state will use those reported rates to set new rates someday. They are supposed to buy 75% of the spots. So, the lower your reported rates, they lower the rates will be set at. One of the reasons the Dane Co and other city providers are paid more is because they used their HIGHEST rates on the state surveys over the years. They are a savvy bunch...



Of course, they haven' actually raised rates (except nominally) since 2006. Also, they "throw out" all rates that are not to their specifications. IF they asked for weekly rates, and a provider put down their hourly rate, they would toss that survey.

I am VERY concerned about how this will affect things. If a provider puts down $125 per week, they usually mean for the "spot". But, the state does not pay for the "spot", so they really shouldn't be using that number. KWIM? If you aren't being paid absent or sick days, then you have to raise your rates accordingly to cover the cost.

Oh...and it's funny that your TC would tell you that. See, it says very clearly in the manual that you cannot charge state pay MORE than private pay. Ironic that you can charge them less, isn't it? How is it fair that you are subsidizing their enrollment in your program? Or, that you can treat them "differently" as long as it's in the state's favor? :confused:

Here's some interesting "light" reading...http://www4.uwm.edu/eti/barriers/Rates.pdf If you have some time to kill. . There is a lot more out there that will make you go