DCD is an alcoholic

[Unregistered]

I am a forum member but logged out for privacy.

DCM told me yesterday upon pickup that DCD will no longer be in the picture. She went on to say that he is an alcoholic and is no longer sober (since October). After hugging her and telling her how sorry I was that she was going through this; I asked if DCD would be pursuing any sort of joint custody or if there was a court order restricting him from access to his daughter, etc... DCM explained he was currently in jail for a VERY long time and I would not be seeing him at all.

Then she asked me about what time DCD picked his daughter up from daycare last Monday. I looked into my records and told her the time he picked her up. She informed me that according to his work, he had called in sick that day but she thinks he actually stayed home to drink.

There was nothing out of the normal about DCD that day. He does not usually pick his daughter up at all, but occasionally when he has the day off or when he gets off early he will. He even chatted with my husband for a brief moment before saying goodbye to us and leaving with DCG. I did not smell alcohol on his breath, nor did my husband, and nothing seemed unusual at all. My husband also said during their brief conversation nothing seemed unusual about DCD at all.

I am worried that an accusation will arise at some point that I allowed DCG to be released to her dad while he was intoxicated. I have documented my conversation with DCM and all of the facts & thoughts about pickup last Monday. I am wondering if there is anything else I should do to protect myself??

[bunnyslippers]

I would suggest documenting the conversation, and asking your husband to do the same. I would also contact your licensor and let her know about the situation, just to be on the safe side.

[Heidi]

I agree with PP.

Incidently, don't blame yourself. My father was a raging alchoholic, and quite honestly, unless he was waaaayy drunk, you would have been MORE likely to notice something amiss when he was sober. Shaking hands, etc. When he was in his normal "zone", you would not have known he'd been drinking since 6am.

[Willow]

I would stay neutral.

You have no way to verify mom's claims and it's really none of your business.

I would sympathize, but not at all entertain talk of court proceedings and dad's (supposed) criminal trouble - especially in front of the child.


I'd tell mom that if she wanted to keep dcg from the dad in terms of release privileges that she needs to provide you with a legal document stating that his rights to do so have been pulled via the courts. As it stands, he has just as much right to continue to pick her up as she does.

I'd be far more worried about the liabilities involving withholding a child from their legal parent(s) than about releasing a child to a parent who I perceived to be sober and has a second witness who also believed the same. Even if your husband was able to detect alcohol on his breath during that conversation neither of you would have been able to stop him from taking his child regardless.



For all you know dad took the day off to move his stuff out because he's leaving mom and now mom is just jaded and vindictive. There's no way for you to know the truth, and assuming mom is right declaring victim here just because she spoke first isn't fair.

[Heidi]

I would stay neutral.

You have no way to verify mom's claims and it's really none of your business.

I would sympathize, but not at all entertain talk of court proceedings and dad's (supposed) criminal trouble - especially in front of the child.


I'd tell mom that if she wanted to keep dcg from the dad in terms of release privileges that she needs to provide you with a legal document stating that his rights to do so have been pulled via the courts. As it stands, he has just as much right to continue to pick her up as she does.

I'd be far more worried about the liabilities involved with withholding a child from their legal parent(s) than about releasing a child to a parent who I perceived to be sober. Even if your husband was able to detect alcohol on his breath during that conversation neither of you would have been able to stop him from taking his child regardless.



For all you know dad took the day off to move his stuff out because he's leaving mom and now mom is just jaded and vindictive. There's no way for you to know the truth, and assuming mom is right declaring victim here just because she spoke first isn't fair.

You are right, of course!

The whole "what should you do if someone tries to pick up their child under the influence" part comes up here quite often. I agree that I cannot withold a child, but you can darn well be that I will stall that person (I'd be smearing honey on their mouth, as the germans say), and call the police if they insist on taking the child.

[Unregistered]

I documented everything and I just called Licensing to document it on their end. She told me that regardless of intoxication, I am required by law to release the children to any legal guardian. Even if I had suspected intoxication, I had to release her. But you better bet I would have called the police if I knew he was drunk.

[MarinaVanessa]

Everything that I would have said has already been said so I will only add that DCM suspects that DCD stayed home to drink and suspects that DCD picked up DCB while under the influence ... but she has no real proof correct? If she doesn't absolutely know beyond a doubt then you'll be fine in case she were to every make allegations that you released DCB to drunk DCD. Who knows, maybe he did stay home from work and drank but then ate and took a nap and picked up DCB after he sobered up.

I know this isn't part of what you were asking about but I really feel I need to strongly suggest that on top of doing what was suggested above you should talk to DCM again and explain that you want her to know that although she said that DCD is locked up and will be for a long time that if he were to get out earlier than she expected (doesn't get sentenced for as long as she thought or gets out early for good behavior or due to overcrowding etc) that unless you have a legal court custody order you cannot keep him from his child. She can start the legal custody case while he is in jail and he can respond in writing ... he doesn't have to be present in court. It takes a little longer I think (I had a DCM go through this process once) but It's worth it to her to go through it.

In my case with DCM she heard DCD was getting out 2 years earlier than he was sentenced so she went through the custody process which only gave him visitation on certain days supervised. I'm glad that she did because he showed up at DCG's school and tried to pick her up and I had showed up with his son to pick DCG up (I took care of both 5yo DCG and her sibling 4yo DCB). Because DCM was proactive and made sure to make me and the school aware and provided copies of the order to both he was unable to take the kids and he left without incident. I don't think he was trying to kidnap the DCG, he was just really excited to be out and wanted to see his kids and didn't think anything of it ... he even called DCM himself to talk to her once we explained that we couldn't release the kids to him while we were all at the school to apologize and see if she would give him permission (she didn't because he was alone and he didn't argue with her) so it all sort of worked out but it was nerve wracking. I think that taking care of it before it becomes an issue can prevent problems before they happen. Just think on it.

[Unregistered]

Everything that I would have said has already been said so I will only add that DCM suspects that DCD stayed home to drink and suspects that DCD picked up DCB while under the influence ... but she has no real proof correct? If she doesn't absolutely know beyond a doubt then you'll be fine in case she were to every make allegations that you released DCB to drunk DCD. Who knows, maybe he did stay home from work and drank but then ate and took a nap and picked up DCB after he sobered up.

I know this isn't part of what you were asking about but I really feel I need to strongly suggest that on top of doing what was suggested above you should talk to DCM again and explain that you want her to know that although she said that DCD is locked up and will be for a long time that if he were to get out earlier than she expected (doesn't get sentenced for as long as she thought or gets out early for good behavior or due to overcrowding etc) that unless you have a legal court custody order you cannot keep him from his child. She can start the legal custody case while he is in jail and he can respond in writing ... he doesn't have to be present in court. It takes a little longer I think (I had a DCM go through this process once) but It's worth it to her to go through it.

In my case with DCM she heard DCD was getting out 2 years earlier than he was sentenced so she went through the custody process which only gave him visitation on certain days supervised. I'm glad that she did because he showed up at DCG's school and tried to pick her up and I had showed up with his son to pick DCG up (I took care of both 5yo DCG and her sibling 4yo DCB). Because DCM was proactive and made sure to make me and the school aware and provided copies of the order to both he was unable to take the kids and he left without incident. I don't think he was trying to kidnap the DCG, he was just really excited to be out and wanted to see his kids and didn't think anything of it ... he even called DCM himself to talk to her once we explained that we couldn't release the kids to him while we were all at the school to apologize and see if she would give him permission (she didn't because he was alone and he didn't argue with her) so it all sort of worked out but it was nerve wracking. I think that taking care of it before it becomes an issue can prevent problems before they happen. Just think on it.

Thank you. I think this is excellent advice. I think I should sit down with her or call her to discuss so that she knows that I have to release her daughter to him unless there is a court/custody order that states otherwise. She did say that she thought the divorce would be final before he got out of jail, but she said nothing about custody (maybe the two go hand in hand, I've never dealt with it before!).

[littlemissmuffet]

If a parent tried to accuse or sue you for letting her daughter go with a drunk parent (whether or not you knew) it wouldn't hold up in court - there was an extensive discussion about this about a month ago. You did the right thing by documenting the convo with mom and calling lisencing to explain the situation. You will be fine. I would, however, have mom provide any necessary LEGAL paperwork if she doesn't want dad picking her up from daycare when he's released from jail... she says he's there for a "long time" but does she really know that for sure?

[MarinaVanessa]

If a parent tried to accuse or sue you for letting her daughter go with a drunk parent (whether or not you knew) it wouldn't hold up in court - there was an extensive discussion about this about a month ago. You did the right thing by documenting the convo with mom and calling lisencing to explain the situation. You will be fine. I would, however, have mom provide any necessary LEGAL paperwork if she doesn't want dad picking her up from daycare when he's released from jail... she says he's there for a "long time" but does she really know that for sure?

Yes this is true. Only in certain states (CA for example as it was explained in the discussion) is one of the few states that even allows you to keep a child from a parent under extreme situations such as when a parent poses a risk to the child (such as being intoxicated and driving the child home).

Evem then in CA you have to have a clause in your policies warning the DCP about this. In any case even if your state allows it I doubt you could get in trouble for letting a child leave with a parent ... especially since neither you or your hubs noticed anything out of the ordinary.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

((Hugs)) How stressful. Hopefully nothing more dramatic comes from all of this.

[Scout]

I documented everything and I just called Licensing to document it on their end. She told me that regardless of intoxication, I am required by law to release the children to any legal guardian. Even if I had suspected intoxication, I had to release her. But you better bet I would have called the police if I knew he was drunk.

this.scares.me.a.lot.

[Unregistered]

I wanted to update you all a little bit.

I had a chat with DCM last night & warned her that even though she thinks he will be in jail for a long time, it could change & I would be required to release DCG to her father (regardless of intoxication) unless I had a court order or custody order saying otherwise. I also emphasized that the day in question; both myself and my husband saw nothing out of the ordinary or suspicious with regards to the father.

DCM said she was well aware of the fact that I have to release DCG to the father if he shows up. She also stated she was not worried about the day in question at all. She said she knows he will often drink in the morning & then sleep it off. By late afternoon (when DCG was picked up) he usually is sober and no one suspects a thing. She said she only asked me about pickup that day because she was trying to "piece together his web of lies." LOL