Need help before going to a brainstorming meeting!!

[Blackcat31]

Here is the link to the U.S Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families. You can click on the right side of the menu and find your state. It explains your states version of QRIS

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/occ/qris/resource/wwwroot/index.cfm

One of the most frequently asked questions was is there financial incentives for parents if they choose providers with higher ratings....

Are there incentives for parents to choose higher rated providers?

Experience from other fields suggests that financial incentives can help change consumer behavior. Several States are experimenting with this approach and creating consumer-based incentives linked to QRIS. Several years ago Maine doubled the State dependent care tax credit for parents who used an early childhood program that was at Step 4 of the State’s Quality for ME initiative. Anecdotal evidence suggests that this financial incentive increased the number of parents who inquired about quality, which subsequently increased the number of providers participating in accreditation facilitation projects and career development in early and school-age care and education. In 2007, the Louisiana legislature passed a package of School Readiness Tax Credits (SRTC) linked to Quality Start, the Louisiana QRIS. The package, which took effect on January 1, 2008, includes a refundable State dependent care tax credit for families with children younger than age 6. The value of the credit increases based on the star rating of the center the child attends. Additional information about Louisiana’s tax credits is available in the “Provider Incentives and Support” section.

Talk about steering parents in the direction the government wants them to go in. Providers who choose not to earn the maximum amount of stars will obviously not be getting as many interested clients as those who have lots of stars.
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This whole thing reminds me of The Sneetches, by Dr. Seuss.....

"Now, the Star-Bell Sneetches had bellies with stars.
The Plain-Belly Sneetches had none upon thars.
Those stars weren’t so big. They were really so small.
You might think such a thing wouldn’t matter at all.

But, because they had stars, all the Star-Belly Sneetches
Would brag, “We’re the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches.”
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they’d snort
“We’ll have nothing to do with the Plain-Belly sort!”
And, whenever they met some, when they were out walking,
They’d hike right on past them without even talking."

[Willow]

I am participating in Younstar, and there are some good things...but I have not "drank the koolaid" by a long shot.

LMAO!!!!

My goal would be the same. To participate and achieve a perfect rating and then blast the living heck out of it. If I score low people will assume I'm just bitter and whining. If I master it I can share what a load of crock it is and hopefully make an impact on at least my local community that way.

I'd have no problem spreading the word that although the country provider up the road who has been providing licensed childcare for decades only has two stars and I've got five, that she's got loads more experience than I do and absolutely is a top of the line option for prospective parents.

[Meeko]

Provider #1

Comes out of high school not knowing what she wants to do. Daddy buys her an education anyway. After graduation, she marries Daddy's pick and moves into her nice home. Bored......she opens a home daycare. Lots of spare money to spend on all the fancy equipment and furnishings and latest toys. Lots of room for setting up centers/craft areas etc.

Licensing come and ooh and ahh over her great education and fancy set up. 5 stars. Then leave the bored kids with their dis-interested provider.

Provider #2

Been doing daycare for more years than Provider #1 has been alive.. Has an average home which she shares with her daycare kids. No room for many 'centers" etc. Not the very latest in toys, but plenty of good old fashioned blocks etc. She spends her time working with the kids and parents and is very respected. The kids LOVE her as have many, many before them. But licensing see she doesn't have a college education, doesn't have time for classes because she wants to spend that time with her own family and her home is average.
2 stars.

Guess which one I would rather take my child to? Except if I was a unknowing parent looking at the star ratings...I would automatically assume that #1 was the better choice.

[Blackcat31]

Provider #1

Comes out of high school not knowing what she wants to do. Daddy buys her an education anyway. After graduation, she marries Daddy's pick and moves into her nice home. Bored......she opens a home daycare. Lots of spare money to spend on all the fancy equipment and furnishings and latest toys. Lots of room for setting up centers/craft areas etc.

Licensing come and ooh and ahh over her great education and fancy set up. 5 stars. Then leave the bored kids with their dis-interested provider.

Provider #2

Been doing daycare for more years than Provider #1 has been alive.. Has an average home which she shares with her daycare kids. No room for many 'centers" etc. Not the very latest in toys, but plenty of good old fashioned blocks etc. She spends her time working with the kids and parents and is very respected. The kids LOVE her as have many, many before them. But licensing see she doesn't have a college education, doesn't have time for classes because she wants to spend that time with her own family and her home is average.
2 stars.

Guess which one I would rather take my child to? Except if I was a unknowing parent looking at the star ratings...I would automatically assume that #1 was the better choice.

Plus you would get financial perks for choosing "correctly"....

[Meeko]

I am participating in Younstar, and there are some good things...but I have not "drank the koolaid" by a long shot.

Sadly, you will be forced to drink it soon.

[Crystal]

If you are implying that I don't like the idea and am trying to scare people away, that is NOT true. I happen to be involved with our states rating system right now, and the ONE consistent thing I know to be true is that there are MORE regulations and rules to follow. There are now "right" and "wrong" ways to do EVERYTHING and child care providers will no longer have as much say in how their programs are run now unless they aren't concerned about how many stars they have or don't have.


Not implying that YOU are...not at all! Alot of "people" are though.



I also think, and have said so a hundred times, that there should be some consistency as to how the child care world works and functions when it comes to provider education but when the program disallows a providers college education and years and years of experience, then it isn't in the best interest of the small business owner any more.

I certainly believe that experience should count for something, however, experience is not an indicator of quality. I know several providers who have been in the business for years that I wouldn't allow to watch my dog, much less my child. I think if experience IS to count, there MUST be some way of indicating the quality of care and that DEVELOPMENTALLY APPROPRIATE PRACTICES are being utilized.

Our state's program recognizes college degrees and coursework that has been taken ONLY within the last 5 years. If you have a master's degree in education, it doesn't count unless it was earned within those guidelines. If you have 20 years of experience, it doesn't count for anything unless you take the coursework they want you to take.

I have not researched all of the States QRIS guidelines, but I would think this is probably unique to your state. THIS is EXACTLY one of the reasons why providers should be advocating and attempting to particpate in the actual development of the QRIS before it is mandatory. I have been involved in the process of our county since the beginning discussions and there were alot of initial concepts they were going to impose that ended up being removed based on the feedback of providers....one issue, for instance, was that Providers would have to have a bachelor's degree to recieve 4 stars and a Master's degree to achieve 5....they changed it to an AA and a BA for FCCH with Centers still having to achieve the BA and MA because of resources available to them and the time available to attend formal training.

I also have issue with the fact that providers who do not do some sort of organized curriculum (approved by the state) they cannot earn more than 1 or 2 stars. That makes their program look less than quality when that is not always the case.

This will be on a State by State basis as well, but I do know in Ca. we will be required to use "curriculum" but there is no dictation as to what that curriculum is, so long as we meet the Preschool Learning Foundations, which are based on DAP and PLAY. So, I use emergent curriculum, and that would not change....the only thing that would change is that I am actually showing proof that it is being implemented

Providers who offer play based curriculum and spend their time focusing on the rest, food and quality of care itself will be overlooked.
I don't believe this to be true, at all.

Providers can only earn max stars or recognition when they providee written lesson plans,

These lesson plans can still be play based....but will require that we are showing parents what children are actually learning through those play based experiences....I think that is GREAT.....parents question all the time what their children are learning if they are "just playing" and providers tend to complain about it....SO let's show them!!!

proof of observation and assessment for each child in care, proof of parent involvment and etc...

Many providers just want to CARE for kids NOT teach them academic things and academic success and preparedness for school is the main focus or intent of the star rating system, in my opinion, so I guess you can take it however you want, but a system that does not recognize and reward ALL the different types of programs is wrong in my opinion.

no one will stop providers from that. The difference will be that those who do not get in line with the new requirements will be considered "babysitters" rather than Early Care and Education programs. Many parents will still highly values thier services, but will likely expect to pay a lower rate, etc.

I think giving parents the false sense that one program is better or worth more than another just because of stars is also wrong. Yes, each provider can choose to earn as many stars as their state allows but in order to earn those stars you have to meet their requirements.

I don't think it is a false sense......a program with higher stars WILL be higher quality. Just like a hotel or a restaraunt....those with higher stars typically ARE higher quality. I agree that experience is great, but it is NOT an indicator of quality. I would certainly choose a provider with no formal education for my children if a provider had years of experience and could SHOW ME that she understands what is DAP and that her program is high quality, but I'd be more inclined to chosse a provider with both education and experience first.

Nan was/is a perfect example of the type of provider who will not benefit from a star system. She has a fantastic, well run QUALITY program but wouldn't be highly rated or given too many stars because she doesn't offer a structured state approved curriculum and she doesn't have a 2,4 or higher degree in education.

You're right, she is one who will not benefit from it. But she is also one of those providers who HAS THE CHOICE to earn those stars or not. I feel that this is no different than any other business that wants to be seen as high quality......the proof has to be there. Just SAYING that you provide a quality program doesn't mean that you do.

What it comes down to for me is, if we want to be taken seriously as professionals, then why should we not be held to the same standards of other professionals? We expect other service professionals to prove to us that they are worthy of our consumerism, why shouldn't parents expect the same IF NOT MORE, from the people who care for thier children?

[DCMom]

Blackcat, Meeko and Willow have pretty much said everything I wanted to say. Especially about enforcing the regulations that we already have in place. Most of us have the integrity to self-regulate and could pass a drop in visit from licensing at any time; we take the time to spend time teaching in a variety of ways. Just as there are many ways to learn, there are many ways to teach ~ but as usual it is the few changing it for the many.

In the case of rating systems ~ Minnesota's is called Parent Aware. It has been in a pilot phase for about 4 years I think, but it is in full roll out right now. Still voluntary at this point, but they are pushing it hard to providers. Most parents that I have talked to have never heard of it, so don't try and tell me it is a tool for parents...but I digress, !

I have been in this business for 20+ years. I strive for excellence in everything I do, so anything less than 4 stars I would consider failure for myself. Call me a perfectionist I guess. I would have no problem reaching a 4 in each content area...except for the college degree. I graduated in 1984 with a BA in Accounting and Business Administration; am I using that degree? You bet I am! But does it count toward my Parent Aware Rating? Nope. It is very frustrating for those of us with years and years of experience, who have no desire to spend the time or the money to return to school and get a degree at 50 years old. It has it's good points and it's bad, it's just not for me. My business is already successful with no help from from a rating system ~ so could you please just leave me alone?

For those of us in MN, the 'attack' (my word, my feelings) on FCC is coming from all sides. The last few years they have been trying to get everyone on board with Parent Aware; the requirements change slightly with each cohort, it seems. I firmly believe that it will eventually be mandatory once they stop tweaking it. Last year it was Governor Dayton and his executive order for daycare providers to unionize. Then the Star Trib and its series of hit pieces on Family Child Care. Those articles resulted in the Child Mortality Review Panel whose recommendations to our legislature will destroy home childcare as we know it (again, my opinion). MLFCCA is presenting it's rebuttal to DHS today, who will in turn decide what goes into the proposed legislation. But there are no guarantees. Our child/adult ratios could be severely lowered among many other things. The real kicker? There was not one person in attendance that could explain how the ratio changes would be implemented. I guess we have to pass it to see how it works, right? That is pretty much what the DHS supervisor in attendance suggested.

I'm tired. I have been to so many meetings in the last two weeks regarding this stuff that my head is spinning, but I have to stay on top of it or I will be out of business. If you are in MN, you NEED to be paying attention. Change is all around you.

Why can't I just do what I do best? If it ain't broke, don't make me fix it.

[Crystal]

We will have a 5 star system.

I went to the pilot project meeting and expressed my desire to do this. Right now I more then likely won't get 3 stars. I have run a highly successful business for 17 years but because of not specifically running my program the way they want, I couldn't get stars.

There really won't be any individuality in childcare anymore. They will all pretty much be cookie cutter. I don't agree. Even in State funded preschools there is a TON of individuality, with all different types of philosophies and various types of curriculum. The only difference is that now there will be some requirements into the setting in which care is provided, the competency of the caregivers, (meaning they understand and implement DAP and Best Practices), etc.

I don't have the room for what they are wanting for one thing. I don't have the space for individual centers, space for children to be alone, reading nooks, childsize size furniture for each size of child, and the list goes on.I am not sure what Oregon's model looks like, but in Ca. this would just mean that we have to offer a learning environment....there are ways to do that, even in the tiniest of spaces, you just have to get very creative

I don't even have the freedom to choose my own curriculum. They have it listed what we can use. Do you know what curricukum they have selected? I'd be interested in taking a look at it.

The guidelines are 25 pages long and I probably couldn't even get a 1/4 of the stuff. I really want someone to come in and show me how to do this because one its overwhelming and two I don't understand how I'm going to be able to do it in the home I have now. There will be support from the State to implement changes in your program. Here, they are going to pay for observers, assessors,,etc. to come out and HELP providers achieve the stars. Providers are not just going to be left high and dry having to figure all of this out on their own. There will be extensive support and resources, especially for those of us who are getting involved at the beginning. They will also be paying college tuition, providing materials for our environments to enhance the learning environment and curriculum, etc.

Education, education, education I understand for children that are ready for it. I have really learned about this over the years from my own experience with my children. Upon talking to several doctors, therapists, and mental health specialists, the average child isn't even ready for school type learning till 8 years old. That is when their brain is ready to take off with the reading/math/ and most subjects. With todays standards, they want to start at birth it seems. Did you know there is talk of getting kindergarten started at 4 and having kids graduate when they are juniors instead of seniors! Lets get them into school earlier/work force earlier and why not just jump our death age up why we are at it. When will people realize that we need down time to enjoy life and just see quietness. Ok, I better get down now-

I undertsand your concerns, really I do, but I remember you talking before about how much you enjoy attending workshops/trainings, etc. This could be an AWESOME opportunity for you to get a college education for free, and give you opportunites to grow, both personally and professionally.

[Country Kids]

Heres what I know from our guidelines:

You have to pick one of their choosen curriculums. We have a list of what they are.

Just because you have higher star does not mean its better quality-that is giving parents a very, very false sense. I could have a five star program but that doesn't even mean I have experience working really well with children. Everything maybe picture perfect but in the end experience is what it takes with ANY job. I have eaten/stayed at some pretty high ranking places and it the end they gave me no more then the other places. They gave me food to eat/a bed to sleep on and life went on. They may have had a few perks but you know what, it was once in a life time thing and nothing I could afford to do on a monthly basis. Parents aren't going to be able to afford "ritz" month after month.

We can't do play based from what I can tell. It was even commented on when some directors where looking at it that it wasn't an option.

I am a professional and know many people who are professionals and don't have a "shingle" to hang up to prove it to the world. What I do have it years of word of mouth that gets me 95% of my business. My first two children ever to watch are going to school to be a cardiologist and a nutritionist/dietician. We played,played,played/did crafts and some preschool. Both of them turned out incrediably well and tell me they loved coming to my childcare. That means the world to me over having to invest into a program that I might not even score high into.

[Crystal]

I don't agree with this...... I think it is money driven-

This is COSTING the States money. They aren't making money off of this, so I would have to disagree with you there.

I also feel that one way of doing childcare is not the only way or the right way. Cookie Cutter mind set and most of the time set by pencil pushers, who don't take care of children day in and day out.

They aren't going to be making us all have the exact same approach to early care and education. It doesn't have to be "cookie-cutter" it just has to be PROVABLE that we practice what is developmentally appropriate for children. And, it isn't just pencil-pushers who don't work with children that are pushing these standards. A large majority of those involved are US, the providers on the front line, who have witnessed outrageous situations in child care programs who are standing up and saying ENOUGH.....let's set those of us who run quality programs apart from those who don't. Those of us who have been involved in this fight have had enough of being considered babysitters because parents percieve us as such, rather then the professionals that we are.

It is scary for all of us that have been doing this for years but don't have the "education degree" It is scary because it threatens our business.

I agree, it is scary. BUT, there has been (in states already implementing it) and will be in states that are beginning it, AMPLE time for providers to further their education. I understand not all providers want to participate in formal education, but that will be thier choice, and will be up to them if they recieve the higher level of ratings. I say act now, so that it doesn't threaten your business. I also say, again, we expect other service professionals to have an education, why should it be any different for those of us that are raising other people's children?

I could go on, but am not going too, and I am not looking to cause a heated debate. This is my personal view about this subject. I respect that some of you are for it, just respect those of us that are not for it and have been doing childcare for years.

I respect that some are against it too. I understand the fear, I understand that some feel they are losing control of their own business, etc. For those of you who feel this way, I say, get involved while they are still in the process of setting up these systems. They really do want to hear your voice and your voice CAN make a difeerence in how it is implemented in your State.....I know, because I have witnessed it first hand.

[Crystal]

We have just implemented the QRIS in MI and had to have our reviews submitted by Nov 30th. I do not care for the rating system because even though I have 100% in every catergory except Education, because I do not have an early childhood degree or CDA I will never get higher than a 1 star in the 5 star rating system. My 47 years of experience count for nothing. I am NOT going back to school.

I just learned Monday that next year instead of 10 hours of required childcare classes we have to have 24. When am I going to take care of the children?

Hopefully I can still get children until I have to retire. Since I didn't win last nights Powerball I guess it will be a few more years.

Can I ask, why you are against going back to school? (I am NOT being judgemental, I am just curious, as I know alot of providers feel this way)I know it's alot of work, and is time consuming, but it is SO rewarding. Even with my many years of experience, when I went back to school and started learning about child development and DAP, I learned how much I DIDN'T know that I thought I did know and my program was transformed by it!

I think 24 hours of training is completely acceptable. That is only 2 hours per month, which really shouldn't cut in to when you care for children.

[daycare]

Can I ask, why you are against going back to school? (I am NOT being judgemental, I am just curious, as I know alot of providers feel this way)I know it's alot of work, and is time consuming, but it is SO rewarding. Even with my many years of experience, when I went back to school and started learning about child development and DAP, I learned how much I DIDN'T know that I thought I did know and my program was transformed by it!

I think 24 hours of training is completely acceptable. That is only 2 hours per month, which really shouldn't cut in to when you care for children.

I don't know a lot about all of this, so this is a great thread. Crystal, I am on board with what you are saying and I am in school now and can't wait to see my hardwork pay off in the end. I am so ready to be treated with respect and seen as a preschool teacher and not a babysitter, because this IS why I went back to school.

Please keep givng all of your great information

[Country Kids]

I undertsand your concerns, really I do, but I remember you talking before about how much you enjoy attending workshops/trainings, etc. This could be an AWESOME opportunity for you to get a college education for free, and give you opportunites to grow, both personally and professionally.

Oh, there isn't any college education involved in this. We will have people that will be "mentors" but it will be like 1 per 40 providers. Nothing was discussed in us receiving any types of materials or things like that. Pilot starts in Feb. and they still don't know how to figure out who is going to participate.

[daycare]

I do wonder how in the world is CA going to support the man power for this program? Where will the funding come from? It's bad enough that we are not monitored enough as it is. I get a lic visit once every 3-4 years...

thats a really scary thought

[Crystal]

Holy cow, now I'm scared of this program. I wish I hadn't agreed to be on the naming committee for it! Don't be scared of it. Get involved and help shape the way it is implemented!

I agree with everything My3C said, but I think instead of it being money driven, it was cover-your-ass driven. There have been many cases of abuse at DC's, and the gov't wants to cover their asses. Forgive my French. This is likely PART of it, but it is also that research has proven, time and time again, that quality care leads to better outcomes for children and families.

So I'm that Provider who doesn't want to take classes on ECE, and I really don't want to do a formal curriculum. I teach my DC kids every day. Just yesterday we went to the grocery store and the 4-yr olds were champs at finding fruits that began with A, counting how many to put in the bag, etc. That's only a small example, but I take literally EVERY opportunity to teach them something. Whether it's math when we figure out how many Nilla Wafers we all get if there are 10 in the box, whether it's shapes that I cut their toast into, etc. I could go on and on. The school-agers are sick of me asking if they know how to spell such-and-such, or if they understand this or that from the newspaper. I'm literally teaching ALL day long. But I don't desire to do a formal curriculum, let alone the packaged curriculums that the state would require me to do.

What you are doing IS curriuclum, and if I were you, would ARGUE that. When I participated in the Preschool Bridging Model Pilot program here, they tried to insist that we use open court curriculum. I refused, arguing that it was not developmentally appropriate. I stated my case, I gave solid evidence that the curriculum I use IS DAP and they ended up changing it and removing the Open Court Curriculum from the program. I ended up being a Model for the PBM and they implemented emergent curriuclum and play based standards in their programs. If you do not like something, you have to advocate for it to be changed, otherwise, it will be what they want it to be

And I DO NOT want state oversight of what I'm doing. A 90-minute inspection visit every 2 years is plenty, thank you. I don't think there will be alot of additonal inspections, etc. In the beginning, as they are helping providers adjust to and achieve the stars, there will be more visits, but they won't be inspections, they will be collaborative meetings with providers to assess the needs for resources, materials, education etc. that they can assist providers with. There will be FCCERS conducted, etc. but it will be once every few years, not random, unnanounced drop ins and the like, licensing will still control all of that.

I'm not on the food program because I got sick of the girl telling me not to serve strawberries 2 days in a row, or that 3 vegetable choices were not enough in one month. (I made those up because I don't remember the specifics of what she would gripe about, but you get the picture.) Anyway, so does this mean I'll be a lowly 1-star Provider and that parents will see my measly 1 star next to someone else's 3 and I'll look like a loser? I've done this for 18 years and I gotta say, I do a GREAT job. I have sent many kids to Kindergarten who were pretty much at a 1st grade level partly because of my daily "teachings". I'm every bit as capable, reliable, safe, loving, caring, nurturing, etc., etc. as the 3-star ladies are. Nothing against them, it's just not what I want to do. This pretty much ****s.

Ok, so that being said, what kind of names can I suggest? They're paying me 50 bucks to go to this meeting... I should come up with something, don't you think? . And I'm asking seriously. I realize there's a temptation to name it derogatory names because we don't like it, but I really need some help here. Thanks, ladies.

"Reach for the STARS!"