Need help before going to a brainstorming meeting!!

[Country Kids]

We will have a 5 star system.

I went to the pilot project meeting and expressed my desire to do this. Right now I more then likely won't get 3 stars. I have run a highly successful business for 17 years but because of not specifically running my program the way they want, I couldn't get stars.

There really won't be any individuality in childcare anymore. They will all pretty much be cookie cutter.

I don't have the room for what they are wanting for one thing. I don't have the space for individual centers, space for children to be alone, reading nooks, childsize size furniture for each size of child, and the list goes on.

I don't even have the freedom to choose my own curriculum. They have it listed what we can use.

The guidelines are 25 pages long and I probably couldn't even get a 1/4 of the stuff. I really want someone to come in and show me how to do this because one its overwhelming and two I don't understand how I'm going to be able to do it in the home I have now.

Education, education, education I understand for children that are ready for it. I have really learned about this over the years from my own experience with my children. Upon talking to several doctors, therapists, and mental health specialists, the average child isn't even ready for school type learning till 8 years old. That is when their brain is ready to take off with the reading/math/ and most subjects. With todays standards, they want to start at birth it seems. Did you know there is talk of getting kindergarten started at 4 and having kids graduate when they are juniors instead of seniors! Lets get them into school earlier/work force earlier and why not just jump our death age up why we are at it. When will people realize that we need down time to enjoy life and just see quietness. Ok, I better get down now-

[My3cents]

I just went to a meeting Tuesday evening about the implementation of the QRIS for our county. California was one of 9 states to recieve a Race to the Top Grant for early learning and Sacramento is one of 17 counties starting a 3 year pilot program. I signed up for it. I think it is FABULOUS that it is happening and am looking forward to it going Nationwide eventually.

It isn't as scary as some make it seem. It is really about ensuring quality in early care and education for young children. It will look different for each state, as they all will set their own standards.....it might even vary by county, as it is here....out of the 17 counties participating, Sacramento is the only county to have 5 steps to achieve the highest rating, the others have three, and our requirements are higher than the others.

The education piece is important......experience is HIGHLY valuable, but I do believe that ALL providers/cargivers of young children should have, at the least, some minimal education in child development. But, do know that it isn't going to be ALL about the providers education, and many of the indicators, most of us already meet anyway.

I don't agree with this...... I think it is money driven-

I also feel that one way of doing childcare is not the only way or the right way. Cookie Cutter mind set and most of the time set by pencil pushers, who don't take care of children day in and day out.

It is scary for all of us that have been doing this for years but don't have the "education degree" It is scary because it threatens our business.

I could go on, but am not going too, and I am not looking to cause a heated debate. This is my personal view about this subject. I respect that some of you are for it, just respect those of us that are not for it and have been doing childcare for years.

[Childminder]

We have just implemented the QRIS in MI and had to have our reviews submitted by Nov 30th. I do not care for the rating system because even though I have 100% in every catergory except Education, because I do not have an early childhood degree or CDA I will never get higher than a 1 star in the 5 star rating system. My 47 years of experience count for nothing. I am NOT going back to school.

I just learned Monday that next year instead of 10 hours of required childcare classes we have to have 24. When am I going to take care of the children?

Hopefully I can still get children until I have to retire. Since I didn't win last nights Powerball I guess it will be a few more years.

[Meeko]

If you are implying that I don't like the idea and am trying to scare people away, that is NOT true. I happen to be involved with our states rating system right now, and the ONE consistent thing I know to be true is that there are MORE regulations and rules to follow. There are now "right" and "wrong" ways to do EVERYTHING and child care providers will no longer have as much say in how their programs are run now unless they aren't concerned about how many stars they have or don't have.



I also think, and have said so a hundred times, that there should be some consistency as to how the child care world works and functions when it comes to provider education but when the program disallows a providers college education and years and years of experience, then it isn't in the best interest of the small business owner any more.

Our state's program recognizes college degrees and coursework that has been taken ONLY within the last 5 years. If you have a master's degree in education, it doesn't count unless it was earned within those guidelines. If you have 20 years of experience, it doesn't count for anything unless you take the coursework they want you to take.

I also have issue with the fact that providers who do not do some sort of organized curriculum (approved by the state) they cannot earn more than 1 or 2 stars. That makes their program look less than quality when that is not always the case.

Providers who offer play based curriculum and spend their time focusing on the rest, food and quality of care itself will be overlooked. Providers can only earn max stars or recognition when they providee written lesson plans, proof of observation and assessment for each child in care, proof of parent involvment and etc...

Many providers just want to CARE for kids NOT teach them academic things and academic success and preparedness for school is the main focus or intent of the star rating system, in my opinion, so I guess you can take it however you want, but a system that does not recognize and reward ALL the different types of programs is wrong in my opinion.

I think giving parents the false sense that one program is better or worth more than another just because of stars is also wrong. Yes, each provider can choose to earn as many stars as their state allows but in order to earn those stars you have to meet their requirements.

Nan was/is a perfect example of the type of provider who will not benefit from a star system. She has a fantastic, well run QUALITY program but wouldn't be highly rated or given too many stars because she doesn't offer a structured state approved curriculum and she doesn't have a 2,4 or higher degree in education.

I mentioned this before in another thread....but we are headed for what the UK is struggling with right now. (I am a transplanted Brit here in the US)

The British government decided to stick it's nose into private day care business and they are now facing a disaster of epic proportions.

Providers were expected to do more and more to get a good rating. Assessments, written lesson plans, files on each child showing educational advancements, parental involvement etc. They got sick and tired of spending hours and hours of their free time (ha ha...after a 12 hour work day) to fill out forms and catch up on paperwork. Inspections took all day and were stressful and nit-picky.

Providers quite by the hundreds or put their rates up VERY high to compensate themselves for all the extra work, extra classes, extra set-up expenses etc.

My brother and his wife were lucky enough to have our parents close by to tend the grandkids a few days a week as daycare is very hard to find in the UK or is so expensive it's not financially possible. It is almost impossible to find full time care.

The UK is now frantically trying to re-vamp the whole thing because it's been a disaster. Not enough day care providers. Angry parents unable to work because they either can't find care or can't afford it, even with financial aid.

Places like "Granny's Home Away From Home Daycare" are no more. "Granny"....who spent her whole life taking wonderful care of the neighborhood children was run out of business. She just wanted to give kids a safe and happy place to play while their grateful parents went to work. She had eons of experience...a glowing reputation and oodles of love to share....which meant absolutely nothing to the "government experts".

The government wanted "Granny" to attend a million classes, keep extensive files on her daycare kids, insist on parent conferences, put up with invasive inspections....etc etc etc. She quit.

Parents have been furiously contacting their MP's (congressmen) demanding things be changed. They don't ALL want an early childhood education program for their kids. They just want a safe, kind place. They don't all want "school"...they want a home away from home, where their kids are happy. A cozy, happy place to relax and play.

The UK government has admitted they made a HUGE mistake and DE-regulation is now in place to try and repair the huge amount of damage.

[Meeko]

Brits spend more of their income on childcare than any other country. Thanks to a rating system that failed miserably and sent the economy plunging. People can't afford to pay the few providers who are left. The average cost of rural care is 160 pounds per week. That's about $240 per week per child. In London, that goes up to 300 pounds a week....about $450!!!!!!!!! I don't charge that per MONTH!

Most UK providers only take care of PT kids as most parents cannot possibly afford full time rates. PT also allows the provider a little more time to try and combat the paperwork/classes etc. and still have time for her family.

I am sure we will head in the same direction the more the government tries to invade our homes.

[Lucy]

I don't agree with this...... I think it is money driven-

I also feel that one way of doing childcare is not the only way or the right way. Cookie Cutter mind set and most of the time set by pencil pushers, who don't take care of children day in and day out.

It is scary for all of us that have been doing this for years but don't have the "education degree" It is scary because it threatens our business.

I could go on, but am not going too, and I am not looking to cause a heated debate. This is my personal view about this subject. I respect that some of you are for it, just respect those of us that are not for it and have been doing childcare for years.

Holy cow, now I'm scared of this program. I wish I hadn't agreed to be on the naming committee for it!

I agree with everything My3C said, but I think instead of it being money driven, it was cover-your-ass driven. There have been many cases of abuse at DC's, and the gov't wants to cover their asses. Forgive my French.

So I'm that Provider who doesn't want to take classes on ECE, and I really don't want to do a formal curriculum. I teach my DC kids every day. Just yesterday we went to the grocery store and the 4-yr olds were champs at finding fruits that began with A, counting how many to put in the bag, etc. That's only a small example, but I take literally EVERY opportunity to teach them something. Whether it's math when we figure out how many Nilla Wafers we all get if there are 10 in the box, whether it's shapes that I cut their toast into, etc. I could go on and on. The school-agers are sick of me asking if they know how to spell such-and-such, or if they understand this or that from the newspaper. I'm literally teaching ALL day long. But I don't desire to do a formal curriculum, let alone the packaged curriculums that the state would require me to do. And I DO NOT want state oversight of what I'm doing. A 90-minute inspection visit every 2 years is plenty, thank you. I'm not on the food program because I got sick of the girl telling me not to serve strawberries 2 days in a row, or that 3 vegetable choices were not enough in one month. (I made those up because I don't remember the specifics of what she would gripe about, but you get the picture.) Anyway, so does this mean I'll be a lowly 1-star Provider and that parents will see my measly 1 star next to someone else's 3 and I'll look like a loser? I've done this for 18 years and I gotta say, I do a GREAT job. I have sent many kids to Kindergarten who were pretty much at a 1st grade level partly because of my daily "teachings". I'm every bit as capable, reliable, safe, loving, caring, nurturing, etc., etc. as the 3-star ladies are. Nothing against them, it's just not what I want to do. This pretty much ****s.

Ok, so that being said, what kind of names can I suggest? They're paying me 50 bucks to go to this meeting... I should come up with something, don't you think? . And I'm asking seriously. I realize there's a temptation to name it derogatory names because we don't like it, but I really need some help here. Thanks, ladies.

[Willow]

There needs to be some consistency, and I think ALL programs should have some sort of oversight, otherwise we end up with the Jessica Tata's of the world.

It's been proven time and time again that more policies, more rules, more laws, are never the answer to an issue like this.

ENFORCEMENT of current standards is.


If you think creating more rules is going to stop the Jessica Tata's of the world you are sadly mistaken. People that don't give a hoot and don't care to stay in compliance never will.



I say take all the money they plan on dumping into this crap and put it towards hiring more licensing workers to enforce what's already on the books. If that can't be maintained how in the heck do they expect to keep up with so much more???

I haven't seen or heard from my licensing workers since January and when she was here I knew more about what she needed to be doing and checking for than she did.

THAT'S the problem.

The fact that she hasn't been around to check to see if I am in compliance for all that time? Anyone can put on a show for a day and a college degree has nothing to do with keeping kids safe. It's why pediatricians can still be child molesters, it's why business CEO's can still run Ponzi schemes and it's proof that whether or not Jessica Tata had a piece of paper on the wall saying she read a bunch of about caring for children safely has nothing to do with whether or not she actually will.


A degree is nothing more than a promise made by a stranger. "I have this paper so please trust my intentions are good."

Experience and reputation however is tried and true PROOF. "I have all of these years I've SHOWN my intentions, so you KNOW they are good."

[Meeko]

It's been proven time and time again that more policies, more rules, more laws, are never the answer to an issue like this.

ENFORCEMENT of current standards is.


If you think creating more rules is going to stop the Jessica Tata's of the world you are sadly mistaken. People that don't give a hoot and don't care to stay in compliance never will.



I say take all the money they plan on dumping into this crap and put it towards hiring more licensing workers to enforce what's already on the books. If that can't be maintained how in the heck do they expect to keep up with so much more???

I haven't seen or heard from my licensing workers since January and when she was here I knew more about what she needed to be doing and checking for than she did.

THAT'S the problem.

The fact that she hasn't been around to check to see if I am in compliance for all that time? Anyone can put on a show for a day and a college degree has nothing to do with keeping kids safe. It's why pediatricians can still be child molesters, it's why business CEO's can still run Ponzi schemes and it's proof that whether or not Jessica Tata had a piece of paper on the wall saying she read a bunch of about caring for children safely has nothing to do with whether or not she actually will.

[Crystal]

Wow....I really wish I had time to post right now, but don't, so I will come back during naptime. Just let me say, that I do understand everyone's fears, and I do respect the opinions of those who disagree with QRIS.....but I have valid points for supporting it, so I will come back to share more after while

[Lucy]

Wow....I really wish I had time to post right now, but don't, so I will come back during naptime. Just let me say, that I do understand everyone's fears, and I do respect the opinions of those who disagree with QRIS.....but I have valid points for supporting it, so I will come back to share more after while

Looking forward to it. I do have an open mind about it. Please tell me whether I am correct in assuming that if I don't desire to take more than the minimum amount of education, and decide not to do a curriculum, that I will only get 1 star, and that when parents are shopping for Providers, my 1 star will look pretty sad next to someone else's 2, 3, or 4 stars? Because that's the bottom line for me.

[jojosmommy]

I can think of a few names for these programs. None of them are printable.....

LOL! Me too. Take the 50 and run happyface

[Heidi]

It's been proven time and time again that more policies, more rules, more laws, are never the answer to an issue like this.

ENFORCEMENT of current standards is.


If you think creating more rules is going to stop the Jessica Tata's of the world you are sadly mistaken. People that don't give a hoot and don't care to stay in compliance never will.



I say take all the money they plan on dumping into this crap and put it towards hiring more licensing workers to enforce what's already on the books. If that can't be maintained how in the heck do they expect to keep up with so much more???

I haven't seen or heard from my licensing workers since January and when she was here I knew more about what she needed to be doing and checking for than she did.

THAT'S the problem.

The fact that she hasn't been around to check to see if I am in compliance for all that time? Anyone can put on a show for a day and a college degree has nothing to do with keeping kids safe. It's why pediatricians can still be child molesters, it's why business CEO's can still run Ponzi schemes and it's proof that whether or not Jessica Tata had a piece of paper on the wall saying she read a bunch of about caring for children safely has nothing to do with whether or not she actually will.


A degree is nothing more than a promise made by a stranger. "I have this paper so please trust my intentions are good."

Experience and reputation however is tried and true PROOF. "I have all of these years I've SHOWN my intentions, so you KNOW they are good."

Wisconsin's Youngstar Program cost TEN MILLION dollars for the first 2 years. How many licensers could they have hired with that money to make sure people are following the 760+ licensing rules and that ILLEGAL PROVIDERS ARE SHUT DOWN!

I am participating in Younstar, and there are some good things...but I have not "drank the koolaid" by a long shot.

[Heidi]

This is a link to the evaluation criteria for Youngstar:

http://dcf.wisconsin.gov/youngstar/pdf/point_detail_family.pdf

You can find out more about our program here:

http://dcf.wisconsin.gov/youngstar/details.htm

Minnesota is apparently modeling their program after ours, although we do not have the 5-year education rule that Blackcat mentioned.

[MyAngels]

Ok, so that being said, what kind of names can I suggest? They're paying me 50 bucks to go to this meeting... I should come up with something, don't you think? . And I'm asking seriously. I realize there's a temptation to name it derogatory names because we don't like it, but I really need some help here. Thanks, ladies.

I'm terrible at coming up with names, but the Illinois program that's sort of similar (I think) is called "Quality Counts QRS."

We must be behind here, because it's still completely voluntary.

[Meeko]

I am 100% supportive of rule enforcement when it comes to the health and safety of children. This was originally the goal of licensing.....to make sure children were safe. Licensing can come to my home any time they choose to check it out.

I am also very supportive of those who choose to further their educations with degrees, classes etc.

But it should be a CHOICE.

The new star ratings blackmail providers into doing things they don't want to. Follow....or your rating will suffer.

The government wants to control how and what you do. THEY want to decide what is educational. THEY want tell you how you are to run YOUR daycare. You either follow THEIR format, or you get a low rating.

Big government interference is NEVER a good thing.