Did I Miss My Window Of Opportunity To Terminate Immediately?

[MarinaVanessa]

I'm glad that everything turned out well for you and I hope that everything still does go well. I really hope that you think about requiring new clients to give you a two-week deposit in advance (to cover the final 2 weeks of childcare) even if it's paid in payments and add a termination policy that allows you to immediately term a child when something of this nature happens.

Here's what mine says ... I'm sure others have policies like this as well that they can share to give you ideas.

Provider Termination

The Provider has the right to terminate the parent/provider contract at any time without notice. In most cases the child care provider will give a two weeks’ notice in writing. The Provider, however, reserves the right to terminate service immediately under any circumstances including, but not limited to:

• Failure to comply with the policies set forth in this handbook or contract.
• Contesting and/or attempting to negotiate the contract and/or policies.
• Scheduling conflicts.
• Failure to complete required forms by their required due date.
• Disruptive or hurtful behavior of a child that persists.
• Disruptive or hurtful behavior of a child that persists due to lack of cooperation by parent.
• Intentionally and frequently bringing an ill child to the daycare.
• Intentionally bringing an ill child to the daycare and masking the illness with
• medication.
• Non-payment of childcare fees or persistently late and/or recurring late
• payment fees.
• Failure to bring child for five days in a row without any communication.
• [Daycare's] inability to meet the child's needs without additional staff, equipment and/or remodeling of the childcare home.
• Blatant deliberate disrespect or damage to the provider's home, family, furnishings or other belongings by a child, parent or other person which picks the child up.
• Any behavior by a parent that poses a possible risk to the other children in care such as (but not limited to) being under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs
• Other erratic behavior deemed unsafe or disrespectful by the child care provider.

[daycarediva]

Marina- do you mind if I copy and paste that into my parent handbook? I love it all, word for word!

She watches a LOT of tv, and after speaking with the mother this morning who was in tears, she says that she was in a group family daycare and they bumped her for a FT kid, then was in a center (which she still claims she didn't like) and now me, since they moved a year ago. I am really leaning towards her being actually booted for aggression.

Her Mom picked her up early, and said that they won't be back. So, alls well that ends well! (But I emailed my registrar just in case)

Thank you all so much!

[MarinaVanessa]

That's great!! What a weigh lifted eh? I still can't get over that the kids cheered when you told them she would be absent the one day . And it looks like crazydaycarelady was right, she won't be back on Monday ::.

And yes daycarediva, have at it. Copy and paste the heck out of the policy if you like .

[daycarediva]

I sent emails to all of the parents at naptime (seeing as some of them know this Mom/girl from daycare events and even some outside of daycare). I received nothing but positive feedback that she isn't returning and am hearing that the kids have told parents that they didn't like her (obviously).

I wished the Mom the best of luck in finding the right care situation, but until they start addressing the behavioral concerns, it isn't going to change.

[Heidi]

when I termed my aggressive kids last year, my part timers cheered too. When mom came to get the pt'ers, they yelled "MOM! The HITTING kids weren't here today!!!!!happyfacehappyface

[Blackcat31]

when I termed my aggressive kids last year, my part timers cheered too. When mom came to get the pt'ers, they yelled "MOM! The HITTING kids weren't here today!!!!!happyfacehappyface

Ya know that is something I tend to sometimes over look. A difficult child impacts the other kids too! Sometimes providers feel they HAVE to keep a child (due to income or obligation, guilt or whatever) and don't necessarily think about the situation from the other daycare kids' perspective.

I have a screaming baby that I endured for almost 8 months. When he left for summer break, I saw a HUGE change in my other kids. The affects this screaming kid had on the others was so big that I am ashamed to admit I kept the little one for so long.

fwiw~ I still have him, but after summer break he came back a 100% different kid so all is well now but I will never do that to the other kids again and as a parent, I think if I knew my child was subjected to a "difficult" kid, I would re-think my child's care arrangements.

[daycarediva]

I will no longer be accepting a child into care that disrupts everyone that way again.

I added MarinaVanessa's entire post ^ AND will send home updated parent handbooks Nov 1 with the newsletter.

Dcm of DCB who was choked told me that dcb didn't want to come today (first time in his 3+ years here) bc he was afraid of dcg! Dcm thanked me for keeping her son safe. She said "I know I picked the right place for him because I know he is safe and loved here." Awesome end to this week, imho!

[MarinaVanessa]

Dcm of DCB who was choked told me that dcb didn't want to come today (first time in his 3+ years here) bc he was afraid of dcg! Dcm thanked me for keeping her son safe. She said "I know I picked the right place for him because I know he is safe and loved here." Awesome end to this week, imho!

It's both a little sad for me and a lot of happy. It's so sad for the aggressive child because she needed to be terminated but maybe this is a wakeup call for mom .... hopefully it is. Maybe you are that one person that finally makes it click that this is a huge problem and something needs to be done about it.

I'm happy for you because overall you took charge of the situation and you made a decision that was best for everyone all around and I'm especially happy for you because it sounds like you at least have one DCP that really appeciates how difficult this situation was and is grateful to you for making the decision that you did. The thought that you now say that this is an awesome end to this week warms me. You tried your best and in the end made a great decision. If I lived near you and didn't do daycare I think I'd be one of your clients too

[daycarediva]

It's both a little sad for me and a lot of happy. It's so sad for the aggressive child because she needed to be terminated but maybe this is a wakeup call for mom .... hopefully it is. Maybe you are that one person that finally makes it click that this is a huge problem and something needs to be done about it.

I'm happy for you because overall you took charge of the situation and you made a decision that was best for everyone all around and I'm especially happy for you because it sounds like you at least have one DCP that really appeciates how difficult this situation was and is grateful to you for making the decision that you did. The thought that you now say that this is an awesome end to this week warms me. You tried your best and in the end made a great decision. If I lived near you and didn't do daycare I think I'd be one of your clients too

That means soooo much to me! Thank you for your help and kind words!

I feel terrible for dcg, and I do hope that her mother follows through with what I have been telling her. (more face time with dcg, routine, stucture, less tv, etc) dcg is very bright, but often childen like that need MORE routine and structure. She excelled here because of our structure, consistency and loving guidance. At home, she was allowed to make many of her own decisions and was left to her own devices for long stretches of time (as in from after pickup at 11 here, she was allowed to 'free range' at home until dinner where she was able to chose her meal. She free ranged to the tv & ate junk.

[Unregistered]

It's both a little sad for me and a lot of happy. It's so sad for the aggressive child because she needed to be terminated but maybe this is a wakeup call for mom .... hopefully it is. Maybe you are that one person that finally makes it click that this is a huge problem and something needs to be done about it.

User logged out because I just can't remember my password. What is this "wake up call" that I hear about that parents of children need. Why is it that parents with kids like my youngest need to be constantly reminded of how awful our children are as if we don't already know and feel horrible.

My son bites, he scratches, he's gets angry and screams. He's also very loving and funny and intelligent. He's 3 and stubborn to the max. Why do parents like me need to 'wake up' to what we already know about our children?

I've already read a million times here how my son would be termed by many of you by behaviours I have NO control over while he's in other providers care. I work in the same daycare my kids attend. My daughter is a text book dream child. My son is demanding, intense and easily frustrated. I know this. I take summers off to try to work with him on this. I read the books, I have the discussions, I don't used violence to teach non violence. I was an excellent caregiver to infants and toddlers for 12 years before I had him. Then I had him and he blew all my theories about children getting personalities from their parents out of the water, blew them all to he**.

Yet as I read on this website I hear a million times about how the parents need to pay, need to make a change, need to fix it. He's not biting when I'm with him! He's biting in someone elses care. I'm glad my sons care providers have never made me feel like I'm to blame for all of his emotional rollercoasters. He's 3 and finally starting to show signs of growing out of it. Thank heavans. But most of the providers on this site would have had it shoved in my face that I have to somehow magically change my sons temperment. The one he was born with and I've been studiously trying to alter since the day he was born. He's not special needs, he's just a little bugger. Mommy guilt is a heck of a downer to have thrown in a parents face.

And thats another thing.. why is it always the moms that need to wake up? Why is the dumping rarely done on the dads? they're the ones wrestling with the little monsters and trying to watch shows like "jackass" in front of them. Rarely the moms, yet we take all the heat.

Rant over, carry on.

[Michael]

User logged out because I just can't remember my password.

If you can tell me your username or email address I can send you a password reminder.

[Soccermom]

My son bites, he scratches, he's gets angry and screams. He's also very loving and funny and intelligent. He's 3 and stubborn to the max. Why do parents like me need to 'wake up' to what we already know about our children?

I've already read a million times here how my son would be termed by many of you by behaviours I have NO control over while he's in other providers care. I work in the same daycare my kids attend. My daughter is a text book dream child. My son is demanding, intense and easily frustrated. I know this. I take summers off to try to work with him on this. I read the books, I have the discussions, I don't used violence to teach non violence. I was an excellent caregiver to infants and toddlers for 12 years before I had him. Then I had him and he blew all my theories about children getting personalities from their parents out of the water, blew them all to he**.

Yet as I read on this website I hear a million times about how the parents need to pay, need to make a change, need to fix it. He's not biting when I'm with him! He's biting in someone elses care. I'm glad my sons care providers have never made me feel like I'm to blame for all of his emotional rollercoasters. He's 3 and finally starting to show signs of growing out of it. Thank heavans. But most of the providers on this site would have had it shoved in my face that I have to somehow magically change my sons temperment. The one he was born with and I've been studiously trying to alter since the day he was born. He's not special needs, he's just a little bugger. Mommy guilt is a heck of a downer to have thrown in a parents face.

It sounds to me like his personality does not match large center care and I think he is probably frustrated that he cannot be with you.

This is not your fault. It doesn't make you a bad parent. He probably just really loves his Mommy and would rather be with her. You said he is well behaved when he is in your care.

IMO He should maybe be cared for in an environment where there are fewer children until he is better able to socialize with his peers.
The ideal situation, however, for a child like this would be to have a parent be home with him until he is old enough to crave social interaction. (I know that this is not always possible but some littles just thrive better at home or even in a place where Grandma or a neighbor care for just them) Some kids just really don't like playing with other kids and hate having other kids in their faces all day. It really stresses them out.
It is normal.
However, I don't think it is fair to the other DCKS to be pushed, hit, scratched and bit until he comes around.
I don't think parents are always to blame for social aggression in a child.
I had a DCG who had dream DCPS. They were very involved and very loving people. DCG was a biter and a choker. I had to term because my DS was terrified of her and it was really sad. DCM found a retired woman to care for DCG after being termed from another family home daycare. This woman took her to a playgroup once a week to work on her social skills but otherwise she was alone with babysitter everyday. DCG thrived from the one on one and is now a happy, friendly 5 year old who loves having friends over to play sometimes.

[Blackcat31]

User logged out because I just can't remember my password. What is this "wake up call" that I hear about that parents of children need. Why is it that parents with kids like my youngest need to be constantly reminded of how awful our children are as if we don't already know and feel horrible.

My son bites, he scratches, he's gets angry and screams. He's also very loving and funny and intelligent. He's 3 and stubborn to the max. Why do parents like me need to 'wake up' to what we already know about our children?

I've already read a million times here how my son would be termed by many of you by behaviours I have NO control over while he's in other providers care. I work in the same daycare my kids attend. My daughter is a text book dream child. My son is demanding, intense and easily frustrated. I know this. I take summers off to try to work with him on this. I read the books, I have the discussions, I don't used violence to teach non violence. I was an excellent caregiver to infants and toddlers for 12 years before I had him. Then I had him and he blew all my theories about children getting personalities from their parents out of the water, blew them all to he**.

Yet as I read on this website I hear a million times about how the parents need to pay, need to make a change, need to fix it. He's not biting when I'm with him! He's biting in someone elses care. I'm glad my sons care providers have never made me feel like I'm to blame for all of his emotional rollercoasters. He's 3 and finally starting to show signs of growing out of it. Thank heavans. But most of the providers on this site would have had it shoved in my face that I have to somehow magically change my sons temperment. The one he was born with and I've been studiously trying to alter since the day he was born. He's not special needs, he's just a little bugger. Mommy guilt is a heck of a downer to have thrown in a parents face.

And thats another thing.. why is it always the moms that need to wake up? Why is the dumping rarely done on the dads? they're the ones wrestling with the little monsters and trying to watch shows like "jackass" in front of them. Rarely the moms, yet we take all the heat.

Rant over, carry on.

First I want to say that I 100% understand where you are coming from. I have a son IDENTICAL to what you have described. My son is the reason why I have a child care. No one else would, could or did keep him. He was termed by 3 providers within the first year and a half of his life and again during his preschool years he was banned, kicked out of, and not allowed to join sports teams, clubs and social groups. I was in college trying to earn a degree not even remotely related to early childhood.

My DH and I did everything we could to help our son but he was, as you put it "just a little bugger". So just wanted to say I DO understand that part of it.

However, as a daycare provider I now have an obligation to protect and guarantee that ALL the children enrolled have a safe and secure environment and I can see first hand how my son would not have made that possible in certain settings.

I also think it makes the situation completely different IF a parent (both mom and dad) is working with the provider and being honest about what goes on at home as well as the routines and schedules being cohesive to each other. I also think it is important for the parent of a difficult child and the provider to have a good relationship and have open honest communication about the situation.

In my case with the screaming baby I had (and kept) I KNEW mom and dad were doing everything they could for their child. I felt as though they were 100% honest with me about the methods they used at home for sleeping, eating and disciplining with their baby. This baby simply hated being a baby and there was little we could do but survive. Thankfully, my story has a happy ending and this screaming baby is now a happy healthy funny enjoyable little toddler but honestly, if I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now...I dont think I would or could.

It was hard. I am so lucky the mom was wonderful and wanted more than anything to work with me in getting past this.

Personally, for me, I think I kept this little one as a way to make things right for me and my son as this little one's behaviors and temperment reminded me so much of my son that I kind of felt like it was a "do-over" for me. A chance to see if the behaviors could be fixed or cured in a better more knoweledgeable way than ways I used to help my DS. I have a degre in ECE now and felt I could better understand the motives and feelings behind the behaviors. Sadly nothing I learned in school really helped except I was able to be a bit more patient but I think that was more to do with age than education.

Anyways long story short, I DO blame and hold parents responsible IF they are doing nothing to change thier childs behaviors. I do think they need a wake up call if they are doing little or no real parenting at home. If the TV is on all the time and there are no routines and consistent discipline at home, then it IS the parents fault (moms more than dads because in reality moms are generally the primary caregivers).

If the parents are on-board and working closely with the other adults in their child's life to maintain consistent routines and behavior manangement, then it si NOT their fault and I wouldn't blame them or hold them responsible at all.

The level of parent involvement and the amount of honest open communication between parent and provider is what matters to me. That makes the difference on who (if anyone) needs a wake up call.


oh and fwiw~ my son is an adult now and there is no trace left of that sullen, ornery difficult child...so hang in there.

[Unregistered]

It sounds to me like his personality does not match large center care and I think he is probably frustrated that he cannot be with you.

IMO He should maybe be cared for in an environment where there are fewer children until he is better able to socialize with his peers.
The ideal situation, however, for a child like this would be to have a parent be home with him until he is old enough to crave social interaction. (I know that this is not always possible but some littles just thrive better at home or even in a place where Grandma or a neighbor care for just them) Some kids just really don't like playing with other kids and hate having other kids in their faces all day. It really stresses them out.

Bahahaha, thanks for trying to be sweet but instead being (hopefully unintentionally) insulting. As if after 15 years in daycare I don't know my child, or what children do well in group care.. and where is this lovely grandma that would be able to handle my little hellhound. Oh god. I can't even imagine the stress he'd cause some sweet little old lady type. ROFL the image is hilarious.
Unfortunately all of your assessments are completely wrong. My son does really well in group care and if you're listing the childrens difficult behaviours in our daycare (of 90 children) you'd not even be able to put him in the top 15 for worst behaviours.. he may make top 25 though.

please please understand, my explanation of my son is 1/15 of his personality. His teachers love him because he's so busy and curious. He loves them and I'm glad to hug him and watch him close the door after me then run off to chat with his buddies. Your sweeping generalization is way off base. A little naieve really.

[Blackcat31]

Bahahaha, thanks for trying to be sweet but instead being (hopefully unintentionally) insulting. As if after 15 years in daycare I don't know my child, or what children do well in group care.. and where is this lovely grandma that would be able to handle my little hellhound. Oh god. I can't even imagine the stress he'd cause some sweet little old lady type. ROFL the image is hilarious.
Unfortunately all of your assessments are completely wrong. My son does really well in group care and if you're listing the childrens difficult behaviours in our daycare (of 90 children) you'd not even be able to put him in the top 15 for worst behaviours.. he may make top 25 though.

please please understand, my explanation of my son is 1/15 of his personality. His teachers love him because he's so busy and curious. He loves them and I'm glad to hug him and watch him close the door after me then run off to chat with his buddies. Your sweeping generalization is way off base. A little naieve really.

You do know that Soccormom was trying to be helpful and supportive but in her defense, it is a bit difficult to do when you come out automatically so angry and hostile. ???

I am sure she was NOT intentially insulting as she is normally a very helpful and supportive member here.

I am confused though as to why you sound so angry in both of your posts? :confused:

Like I directly posted to you......I understand and sympathyze in regards to having a difficult child but BOTH Marina Vanessa and Soccormom were simply trying to advise, help and support the original poster of this thread.

What you have to offer could have been done so in a more constructive manner.