Trial Day Going Badly

[JenNJ]

I have a new dc child starting next week on a part time basis. He is here today for a trial. Things are not going well at all. He has been crying every 5-10 minutes and when I try to soothe him, he kicks or hits me and screams NO! as loud as he can. He is 2 years old. He won't play, will not color, won't eat snack - he just wants to sit next to the window and look for his mom.

I guess I just tell mom when she comes to get him? I'm willing to give it another shot next week, but I'm not willing to take on a child who hits me when he is angry.

[jen]

Do you have the option of giving them a 2 week trial? I think it is hard to determine how a child will be after just one day. Has he been to daycare before or is this a new experience for him?

[JenNJ]

I have a clause in my contract stating I can terminate within the first 2 weeks if it isn't a good fit. He has been in a center since he was a baby, but he is at home with mom 2 days per week and seems a bit spoiled (judging by the way the parents interact with him and his reaction to the word no and redirection).


I just REALLY don't like being kicked in my crotch because I won't allow him to scale the shelving units or get smacked in the face when I redirect him to prevent him from throwing blocks - NOT fun!

[MarinaVanessa]

I have a clause in my contract stating I can terminate within the first 2 weeks if it isn't a good fit. He has been in a center since he was a baby, but he is at home with mom 2 days per week and seems a bit spoiled (judging by the way the parents interact with him and his reaction to the word no and redirection).

I just REALLY don't like being kicked in my crotch because I won't allow him to scale the shelving units or get smacked in the face when I redirect him to prevent him from throwing blocks - NOT fun!

Deffinetely not fun. Although my newest DCG (2) never hit/kicked me she would however stick her foot out in front of the babies so that they would trip over her leg, lean back to brush aginst them so they would lose their balance etc. until one day when she actually kicked out at one of them and he teetered down onto him butt. It wasn't hard but it was nighmare. This lasted the first week and after several daily trips to the crying corner/quiet corner and consistent reprimanding "No, that is unacceptible" she got better. By the 2nd week this and other issues (whining, crying when she wanted something etc.) were gone. Give it to the end of the 2nd week and if you see no improvement then you can decide whether to let him go or not. BUT make sure that you make it clear to the parent that he hits and kicks you and that you are NOT happy about it and that you have to see an immediate change in his behavior or he won't be staying permanently.

[Janet]

Trial days are not fun!

I can take a lot of punishment during the 2 week trial but the one thing that I won't deal with is being hit or kicked (myself or the other kids). I've had insults hurled at me but as long as I'm not getting things chucked at me or the crap beat out of me, I can work with new kids as long as I see improvements.

[nannyde]

I have a new dc child starting next week on a part time basis. He is here today for a trial. Things are not going well at all. He has been crying every 5-10 minutes and when I try to soothe him, he kicks or hits me and screams NO! as loud as he can. He is 2 years old. He won't play, will not color, won't eat snack - he just wants to sit next to the window and look for his mom.

I guess I just tell mom when she comes to get him? I'm willing to give it another shot next week, but I'm not willing to take on a child who hits me when he is angry.

If he hit me, kicked me, or screamed at me that would be his last day. It's absolutely rediculous that this generation of children can go out in public and feel comfortable enough with a strange adult to get physical with them.

In 31 years of caring for kids I have never had a kid raise their hand to me. I've never been kicked. I've never been screamed at. I've never taken a kid on that would feel comfortable enough doing that to me.

I would see this lack of control in the interview and they would not be allowed in.

[Former Teacher]

If he hit me, kicked me, or screamed at me that would be his last day. It's absolutely rediculous that this generation of children can go out in public and feel comfortable enough with a strange adult to get physical with them.

In 31 years of caring for kids I have never had a kid raise their hand to me. I've never been kicked. I've never been screamed at. I've never taken a kid on that would feel comfortable enough doing that to me.

I would see this lack of control in the interview and they would not be allowed in.

Must be nice!

When I was at my former center...I was screamed at, kicked at, punched at, spit at, you name it through out my 17 odd years.

You know why nothing was done? "oh Johnny is going through a tough time"..."oh Johnny didn't sleep well"...."oh Johnny just needs a friend"...oh Johnny my a$$! This was coming from the DIRECTOR/OWNER.

The only time something WAS done was the last time because we had a full center so if we lost a child it didn't matter. Also the fact that I FINALLY broke down and cried because I couldn't take it anymore.

Why didn't I leave before? No excuses other than I needed a job as this was/is a small town. No other day cares at that time that had a good reputation. As for the last time? I basically told the director/owner that it was either him or me. I wasn't going to be abused by a little 5 year old punk. So with the fact that we were full as a center and she was going to lose her right arm (me ) that she choose to get rid of the brat.

[QualiTcare]

If he hit me, kicked me, or screamed at me that would be his last day. It's absolutely rediculous that this generation of children can go out in public and feel comfortable enough with a strange adult to get physical with them.

In 31 years of caring for kids I have never had a kid raise their hand to me. I've never been kicked. I've never been screamed at. I've never taken a kid on that would feel comfortable enough doing that to me.

I would see this lack of control in the interview and they would not be allowed in.

supernanny,

i have to say - i've had co-workers that have had MAJOR problems with kids hitting, spitting, biting, etc. and those SAME kids...i never had one issue with at ALL - none whatsoever. SO, i definitely do think your tone of voice ALONG with the way you treat them (with respect, but firm) has a LOT to do with how they treat you....

BUT (and i'm having deja vu) do you think announcing that you can predict the future in one interview and condescindingly saying that you have NEVER had this or that happen......is in ANY way helpful to this poster? just wondering.

i know you'll say that i'm wrong and that's not what you meant, etc....but point out to me where you HELPED? was it helpful saying that she should've spotted this from the moment they met/first interview? still just wondering...

JEN,

i would give it a little more time if this was his first day. but on his next day, be FIRM and break out your mean voice! i had a little girl (also 2 years old) whose mom brought her to daycare after she got a divorce and had to go back to work (she had 4 kids).

she did the SAME, EXACT thing! she wouldn't eat snack...she'd just sit there and sob. at nap time, she sobbed. playtime, group time, etc....she stood at the window and sobbed. i mean crying, snot, gasping for air sobbing. at first, i tried to be really nice and comfort her, talk to her, etc. and it just made it worse. she'd cry harder. albeit, she didn't HIT me, but you have a boy and they do have different temperaments. after i realized that nothing i said or did was going to stop this kid - i tried ignoring her. if she didn't eat - oh well. if she didn't come to group time - oh well. nothing really helped - she was relentless. eventually i resorted to putting her in "time out" (which was in the book corner with pillows) and completely ignoring her. i'd tell her when she quit crying, she could come and join us. i'd make a point to do something really fun close to where she was sitting.....and eventually, she'd creep over and join in without crying! if she joined us without crying, i'd give her a little attention. if she ate snack without crying, i'd say SOMETHING to her (that's good isn't it?)

it took a week at LEAST before she stopped. i reeeally didn't know if i could handle it, but it did stop. naptime was the worst and i had to be really firm with her then. she also ****ed her thumb which is a pet peeve of mine and i even got her to stop that by the end of week 2. she figured out really fast that crying and throwing fits was getting her NOWHERE.

it's tough. screamers are hard to deal with. bribery comes to mind, but don't do it. it's only been a day...i'd give it more time, but if he hits you, take his butt to time out and tell him, "i don't hit you and you are NOT going to hit me!" and say it in a voice he's probably never heard in his life.

let us know how things turn out.

[nannyde]

supernanny,
BUT (and i'm having deja vu) do you think announcing that you can predict the future in one interview and condescindingly saying that you have NEVER had this or that happen......is in ANY way helpful to this poster? just wondering.

i know you'll say that i'm wrong and that's not what you meant, etc....but point out to me where you HELPED? was it helpful saying that she should've spotted this from the moment they met/first interview? still just wondering...

QualiT: First, I'm NOT Supernanny if you are referring to Jo on the Supernanny show. I do not agree with in any way to Supernanny's philosophy.

I'm not saying I can predict the future in one interview. I don't DO one interview. I do three with each family over a period of weeks. Each interview lasts about 45 minutes or to an hour and a half and the kid MUST attend all three interviews.

When you spend three to four hours with a two year old you can SEE how they behave around their parents. My worse case scenario is that they treat ME like they treat their parents. If they do not understand their PLACE as a child in the family they are not going to understand their PLACE as a child in my home. I'm watching the child/parent interaction to see where the child fits in the heiarchy of the home. If he is the King he is not going to like not being the King in my house.

Saying this has never happened to me means that it CAN be done. Children I bring into the day care and children I know for five years in care do NOT raise a hand to me EVER. I'm very strict. The kids sense this from day one. There's lines that will not be crossed and getting physical with anyone in my home is a very HIGH crime. Not only do these kids not hit me, kick me, or scream at me ... they do not do it to each other either. They KNOW better.

If I am interviewing a toddler I'm looking for the signs that the child understands that they are to MIND the adult.
Do as I tell you to do ...
right when I tell you to do it...
without hesitation...
and without equivocation.

I did not say that SHE should have spotted this in the first interview. I'm saying that "I" would have spotted this in the interview. I have done child care for 31 years. By now... I better be able to spot this.

A huge part of this job is picking the families. You learn that over time. I don't pick families where they foster unstable minds. A two year old who feels comfortable kicking, hitting, and screaming at an adult who is a virtual stranger is unstable. A two year old who hits, kicks, and screams at an adult has had a HISTORY of doing this. We do what WORKS. This has worked for the child. I don't want that kid because every day that kid goes back and forth from my stable group of children into an environment where he can be unstable and nothing of consequence happens to him.

NO not in my house. In my house the children RESPECT the leader and want to be led by someone who can lead. They want to be protected by the their leader so they don't get hit or kicked. My kids would be DEVESTATED if they saw a new two year old hitting me or kicking me. It would scare them and make them not feel SAFE.

NO way. I won't have it. Not in my house. Raise your kid to be a decent kid who knows their place in your home so they know their place when they are with other adults. When these kids "come on the market" they need to be refused provider after provider. Once the parents realize that they CAN'T find anyone to take their out of control two year old then THEY will have to be the ones to get the child under control. This is the best thing that can happen for the child and parents.

[JenNJ]

Well, I laid down the law with this kiddo and he towed the line for the rest of the day.

I told his mother that the next 2 weeks are trial weeks and if this behavior happens again that he will be terminated that day. She said she understood and would work on it at home. I told her to buy Hands Are Not for Hitting because that is what we read here every single day as a reminder of appropriate behavior. She was kind of surprised with how strict I was. She said the center just sent home reports she had to sign. I told her that I have those as well but she will likely only see 1 of those before she gets a phonecall to come and pick him up. She said that playing with a vacuum always calms him down (strange) and I told her that no child was allowed to play with my Dyson

We will see how he is next week. Hopefully better, if not I will just move on.

But, I do have several kids who act out with their parents and are picture perfect daycare kids. My son is an angel at preschool and can be quite a handful for me and my husband, so I don't always think that behavior towards parents is a proper indicator of how a child will behave once in care.

Thanks for all the advice ladies!