Has Anyone Had To Term A Nice Family Because They Wouldn't Take No For An Answer?

[MaritimeMummy]

I know it is frustrating.

You are trying to do something special, once a month, and keep getting asked for more after they turn down your original offer. It ****s.

Yeah, I just feel like I'm spinning my tires. Like, I try to do a little more to increase my income a little bit but I don't need to increase it so much that it sacrifices my family time.

BTW, this is the same DCM who told me I could have Mondays off, I took her up on it, then a week later retracted that and told me she still needed Mondays. So we worked it out that I'd be on call for just her and closed for the other families, since i had already told them. Pushover? Yes.

She's also the one who had signed her contract saying that her hours every day would be from 8 to 5. Then changed it with no notice and did it from 7am to 5:45-6pm...which is the entire time I am open. While I don't mind that she's here during that time since I am open, I was not made aware that it was happening, and that irritated me. But I never said anything.

Now suddenly, she's dropping her off at 8am and picking her up at like, 2pm, then says things like, "I probably could have picked up a few clients this afternoon but didn't want you to have to have her all day if I wasn't working", etc etc. I keep telling her I am open from 7am to 6pm, drop her off when she needs, pick her up when she needs, as long as it's in those hours I don't care, but with her rushing to pick her up because she thinks it's inconvenient for me to keep her any longer than 2pm makes me feel extremely guilty. I don't know. It's such a bizarre business relationship.

Then, on top of it, each morning she stands in my doorway for 20-30 minutes, bemoaning her financial status. Lady, my car has been parked in the driveway since December because we can't afford the repairs, you aren't getting any sympathy from me!

[Cat Herder]

Oh, hun... This woman is going to make you nut's. ::

Maybe include in her contract that she has used all her wishes and the genie is off duty.

You can even use my DH's favorite saying "You have used your words for the day. From this point forward all communication is to be in smoke signals or skywriting."

[lovemykidstoo]

This is nice.


Like, I don't want to be like, this hard a** that has absolutely no flexibility. Child care is hard to come by around here. I like to be able to give people this service without it eating into time from my other business, keep my parents happy, earn a bit of extra money, keep our family time OUR family time, etc.

I think you can accomplish all of those things by doing the one night a month. It actually sounds nice, I may try it LOL!

[lovemykidstoo]

BTW, this is the same DCM who told me I could have Mondays off, I took her up on it, then a week later retracted that and told me she still needed Mondays. So we worked it out that I'd be on call for just her and closed for the other families, since i had already told them. Pushover? Yes.

She's also the one who had signed her contract saying that her hours every day would be from 8 to 5. Then changed it with no notice and did it from 7am to 5:45-6pm...which is the entire time I am open. While I don't mind that she's here during that time since I am open, I was not made aware that it was happening, and that irritated me. But I never said anything.

Now suddenly, she's dropping her off at 8am and picking her up at like, 2pm, then says things like, "I probably could have picked up a few clients this afternoon but didn't want you to have to have her all day if I wasn't working", etc etc. I keep telling her I am open from 7am to 6pm, drop her off when she needs, pick her up when she needs, as long as it's in those hours I don't care, but with her rushing to pick her up because she thinks it's inconvenient for me to keep her any longer than 2pm makes me feel extremely guilty. I don't know. It's such a bizarre business relationship.

Then, on top of it, each morning she stands in my doorway for 20-30 minutes, bemoaning her financial status. Lady, my car has been parked in the driveway since December because we can't afford the repairs, you aren't getting any sympathy from me!

Sorry, but she sounds like a pain in the a@@ LOL

[cheerfuldom]

She really does sound like a pain....I wonder that you even define them as a nice family to work with when it sounds like there have been multiple issues from the beginning with them.....

so if you feel that your contract is clear and tight, time to start working on enforcing! I have to tell my daycare parents no all the time but it just isnt something I even notice anymore. I let next to nothing slide, dont feel guilty if I have to say no (or rarely feel guilty) and it really does become very easy to do, the more you do it. Sometimes in our effort to be nice, we do accidentally come across as not very firm or resolved so working on approach is important to.

Saying "I cant babysit this Friday, sorry" is okay but even better "I cannot babysit on any weeknight or weekend in order for you to get more hours in at work. The answer is no and will be no every time you ask" See the difference?

[MaritimeMummy]

She really does sound like a pain....I wonder that you even define them as a nice family to work with when it sounds like there have been multiple issues from the beginning with them.....

Yeaaaah, see, I'm a ****er for a sweet disposition and despite all her shortcomings, she IS a very nice person. For example, she brought her slushie-maker and juice on one of the hottest days of the year for the kids. She brought hot chocolate for my daughter this morning. every so often she brings me an iced cappucino. She certainly does more for me than a typical parent would do.

I let next to nothing slide, dont feel guilty if I have to say no (or rarely feel guilty) and it really does become very easy to do, the more you do it. Sometimes in our effort to be nice, we do accidentally come across as not very firm or resolved so working on approach is important to.

This is part of why I don't feel like I am in the right business. I have t be kind and loving to the kids (not an issue) but then I feel like, if I'm not friendly to the parents, that I come off as cold and too stern. I really do hope this is a skill that comes over time because I am tired of not being confident enough to enforce my rules.

OH! I thought I mentioned but i see I didn't, this is also the same woman who found the way to guilt me into taking her daughter after I told her we were sick and I was closing.She's got such a way of negotiating about her...she used to be a real estate agent. I feel like I can't win with her!

[littlemissmuffet]

I do appreciate solutions to my issues. But telling me that my contract is "wishy washy" isn't a suggestion of change, it's a criticism. And not constructive criticism, either.

The issues aren't with my contract. My home day care agency has read and re-read my contract and based on what we've talked about, my wants, my business needs, etc, it's fine tuned and perfect. I am always open to changes, but my contract is anything but wishy washy (can you tell I took a bit of offence to that?). I take great pride in how detailed my contract is. My problem really isn't with the contract, my problem is with learning how to deal with parents, keep them from walking over me, because they know I wear my heart on my sleeve. I mentioned in my post yesterday with closing during our sick days that I need to "grow a set". THAT is my problem. :-(

Sorry, dear - but no matter how detailed and perfect your contract is, it's worthless if you don't stand behind it! You can't expect your daycare parents to follow your rules if you don't! You can't expect your parents to respect you, your time and your business if you do not treat it like a business. Operating a business, dealing with the public, sometimes entails putting your foot down and saying NO, no matter what the situation is. I am not in the business of taking care of adults and their problems - I am in the business of taking care of children. So are you.

[Blackcat31]

I have a hard fast contract that I do stand by and being a push-over is not even in my realm of behavior but honestly I don't really think that being strict and stern is the key to being successful or not getting walked on.

The key, IMPO and in my experience is knowing what each parent needs to understand what your rules are and what you will and won't allow.

You HAVE to be able to read each parent and their individual personality style just as we do for the kids we have in care. I have some moms that really require black and white words. "Yes, I will do this for you." or "No I won't" I have a few parents that need long drawn out explanations that again are tailored to their needs so that they understand where I am coming from.

I have a few who are absolutely happy with me saying yes or no. It is the ones who really can't see beyond their own personal family needs that require a bit more finesse. Like the children we have in care, some need a gentle but firm reminder of why we don't do certain things and others need continued re-direction and or a discussion with all the info laid out there before they see why they can or can't do things.

You don't have to be a "dictator" or a "pushover" you just have to be able to deal with different personality styles and adjust your responses and attitude accordingly. You can tell and re-tell a parent something but if it isn't laid out in a way they either relate to or "get" they aren't going to understand.

Doing daycare is kind of like being a math teacher. For some student (parents in our case) it comes naturally and all the formulas and equasions come easy. For others, they require you to show a bit more of your work or require you to write it all out on paper before they see the light....kwim?

I don't think this mom you have is being a bad daycare parent per say, just that I don't think you have found the right way to explain your rules to her just yet.

She keeps pushing you for a little bit more and a little more and she is succeeding by guilting you into doing things you kind of don't want to so she sees that as you being willing NOT as you being reluctant or even put out. She is going to keep asking because so far her tactics or her methods have worked, have they not? So why would the extended care requests be any different?

I do think you will need to simply say, "Hey Sue, I know you have asked a few times but I just really do want to let you know that I won't be doing any extended care hours for you no matter how many times you ask. I value you as a client but I really value my time outside of working hours. I am sure you understand that and will respect my time by not asking me any more. Thanks"

You don't have to be a _itch to make your point or stand your ground. You just have to find the language this particular parent understands.

[MaritimeMummy]

I don't think this mom you have is being a bad daycare parent per say, just that I don't think you have found the right way to explain your rules to her just yet.

She keeps pushing you for a little bit more and a little more and she is succeeding by guilting you into doing things you kind of don't want to so she sees that as you being willing NOT as you being reluctant or even put out. She is going to keep asking because so far her tactics or her methods have worked, have they not? So why would the extended care requests be any different?

Your whole post makes PERFECT sense, but this part really resonated with me. ^^ THIS is why I feel the need to defend her even after all her shortcomings. She really is NOT a bad daycare mom. I honestly don't think she's doing anything with malice or anyway. And the fact is, we were friendly from the start and after having a nightmare of a DCM who was so unfriendly with me and difficult to deal with, I'm thinking because I was very stringent with my rules, I figured I'd try a different approach. But I've found that being friendly doesn't really leave much room for rule-enforcing. So I guess I'm kinda losing control of my business.

So I guess my option, so it's not so much of a shock and seeming passive-aggressive, is to just roll out a revised policy in the new year and say something to the effect of "A brief date night will be available the 3rd Friday of each month, and will be calculated at $10 per hour. Care will be provided until no later than 9pm. Later than 9pm will be at a rate of $20 per hour. If parents are later than 9pm on more than two occasions, I will cease your date night privileges. Parents will notify me by no later than the 3rd Monday of the month whether they will require this service or not. I reserve the right to swap the night in exchange for another night.

Care will otherwise NOT be provided outside of my usual business hours of 7am to 6pm unless in an emergency situation. An emergency situation qualifies as a death in the family or a grave medical situation."

[lovemykidstoo]

Your whole post makes PERFECT sense, but this part really resonated with me. ^^ THIS is why I feel the need to defend her even after all her shortcomings. She really is NOT a bad daycare mom. I honestly don't think she's doing anything with malice or anyway. And the fact is, we were friendly from the start and after having a nightmare of a DCM who was so unfriendly with me and difficult to deal with, I'm thinking because I was very stringent with my rules, I figured I'd try a different approach. But I've found that being friendly doesn't really leave much room for rule-enforcing. So I guess I'm kinda losing control of my business.

So I guess my option, so it's not so much of a shock and seeming passive-aggressive, is to just roll out a revised policy in the new year and say something to the effect of "A brief date night will be available the 3rd Friday of each month, and will be calculated at $10 per hour. Care will be provided until no later than 9pm. Later than 9pm will be at a rate of $20 per hour. If parents are later than 9pm on more than two occasions, I will cease your date night privileges. Parents will notify me by no later than the 3rd Monday of the month whether they will require this service or not. I reserve the right to swap the night in exchange for another night.

Care will otherwise NOT be provided outside of my usual business hours of 7am to 6pm unless in an emergency situation. An emergency situation qualifies as a death in the family or a grave medical situation."

That sounds really good. It sounds organized so that you know for sure each month what night is date night and so do they. No guesswork. Can I ask and just curious why you offer care at night for medical? Is that common where you're from? I am totally just curious because here I haven't seen that offered before. Daycare people that I've talked to just assume that the families would have family/friends that would help in an emergency.

[MaritimeMummy]

Can I ask and just curious why you offer care at night for medical? Is that common where you're from?

I don't know. Just courtesy, I guess. If I were in their shoes, I know if I'm at work and I hear that my husband's in the hospital for whatever reason, I wouldn't want to have to worry about picking up my kids from daycare and trying to figure out what to do about care while I rushed to be with him. Those are my thoughts, but do you think it opens things up for misunderstanding?

Medical appointments do not qualify, just in a real emergency and if they're already in my care when they call. It's not something that they can say, "look, my husband is going for surgery, can Bobby come over during?" I'll specify that as well.

[daycare]

I'm sorry for sounding rude but honestly, I am sick to death of coming on here looking for advice from other providers and being constantly told (by the same few users here, mind you) that I am doing things wrong, my contract isn't specific enough, can't blame the parents for the confusion, it's my fault, blah blah blah. No freaking wonder I want out of this job. I have to constantly keep the parents in check and then get no support from fellow providers. Good gravy.

I feel this way a lot too and sometimes say I hate that website I am never coming back.....only to come back 5 min late because this site and everyone on it rocks......

YOu have to realize that people are going to come off aggressive at times and they are going to share with you how they feel about your policies whether you asked them to or not.....

Just take from it what you want and only respond to those that offer you what you needed.....

As for your post....I have been through exactly what you are experiencing.

I do a FREE PNO once a month....well that kicked off into oh you must be around a lot if you can offer that, so one of my past families would ask me all of the time to BABYSIT their kids so they could attend concerts or have adult time. I finally got tired of it and said. While I love you and your children, I too have a life outside of my career. Please do not consider me as an option to be your babysitter. I am a professional preschool teacher and provider and can not meet the needs of your request. You will be notified when there will be a parents night out at the start of each month. Other than the PNO, I will not be available to assist you.

Ok so maybe not exactly those words, but it was something like that.... I see no harm in what you are doing. She needs to know that you will give her the PNO date and that's it. No more. She does not need to come to you.....

[Live and Learn]

Glad to see Cat Herder back. I agree with everything she has said in this thread.

If you absolutely feel that you must do the date night (I wouldn't) I would make the after 9:00 pick up be $1,000 dollars a minute!! i would not ever allow the late parents to use the date night again. Period. No guilt. No second chances!

Also I would have them pay in advance of the date night. If you require being notified by Monday then the fee is due in full on Monday or they lose their spot. Also I would not charge an hourly rate for date night. It would be a flat fee and a set time. Example: 5:30-9 for $35. Per kid. Good luck.

[Blackcat31]

I don't know. Just courtesy, I guess. If I were in their shoes, I know if I'm at work and I hear that my husband's in the hospital for whatever reason, I wouldn't want to have to worry about picking up my kids from daycare and trying to figure out what to do about care while I rushed to be with him. Those are my thoughts, but do you think it opens things up for misunderstanding?

Medical appointments do not qualify, just in a real emergency and if they're already in my care when they call. It's not something that they can say, "look, my husband is going for surgery, can Bobby come over during?" I'll specify that as well.

Here is what I am thinking. I don't think you necessarily SHOULD put that info in you handbook or written in your policies. I think if a family you have in care had an emergency, I would think (or hope) that they would feel alright asking you to provide care for their family because it truely was/is an emergency.

As a parent if I honestly felt close enough to my provider and a true emergency happened to me I would ask her to help me out. If I didn't feel that close to her, I would probably find a family member or friend to ask instead.

When my DD was about 3, I had her in daycare. I was due to pick her up at 3:00. Around 2:45 I found out my BIL passed away VERY tragically and unexpectedly. I called asked my provider if she would be willing to keep my DD (for how long exactly I was unsure, but for a few extra hours anyways) and she gladly accommodated me.

I couldn't ask family since it was a family issue and although my provider NEVER offered any kind of care outside of her normal business hours I figured she knew that emergencies can and do happen and completely understood why I would even ask her as my DD was used to being cared for by her so it would cause the least disruption in her life as well. If she had said no, I would have fully understood and respected her for it but I asked because we had a good relationship and viewed each other as partners in caring for my DD.

She didn't have to spell it out. I suppose it really doesn't matter if you do or don't include it in your handbook but I just wanted to share my perspective and that I think parents alreayd kind of know that in a case of a real emergency most of us would gladly help a family out.

[lovemykidstoo]

Here is what I am thinking. I don't think you necessarily SHOULD put that info in you handbook or written in your policies. I think if a family you have in care had an emergency, I would think (or hope) that they would feel alright asking you to provide care for their family because it truely was/is an emergency.

As a parent if I honestly felt close enough to my provider and a true emergency happened to me I would ask her to help me out. If I didn't feel that close to her, I would probably find a family member or friend to ask instead.

When my DD was about 3, I had her in daycare. I was due to pick her up at 3:00. Around 2:45 I found out my BIL passed away VERY tragically and unexpectedly. I called asked my provider if she would be willing to keep my DD (for how long exactly I was unsure, but for a few extra hours anyways) and she gladly accommodated me.

I couldn't ask family since it was a family issue and although my provider NEVER offered any kind of care outside of her normal business hours I figured she knew that emergencies can and do happen and completely understood why I would even ask her as my DD was used to being cared for by her so it would cause the least disruption in her life as well. If she had said no, I would have fully understood and respected her for it but I asked because we had a good relationship and viewed each other as partners in caring for my DD.

She didn't have to spell it out. I suppose it really doesn't matter if you do or don't include it in your handbook but I just wanted to share my perspective and that I think parents alreayd kind of know that in a case of a real emergency most of us would gladly help a family out.

I completely agree with all of this. You're settling one issue and then putting that in there and it might with some people leave you open again for a problem. I wouldn't put it in there.