Disbelief Over Licensing Citation

[daycare]

I really have no advice but just wanted to say I am sorry about this situation. I can't believe she wants 5 months tuition back. That is ridiculous since you provided care for the child and if she was unhappy with your discipline she should not have stayed for 5 months.

The licensor just sounds like a power hungry B to me!

I second this....ugh what a crazy woman....

[Happy Hearts]

I have to say that I find this especially sad. As a provider, we need to be on the same page as parents, but how can we when we are constantly concerned about reprisal?

I have one little girl that I am hesitant to tell any misbehaviors to the parents as they see it as an attack each and every time. I ALWAYS tell my parents when there was a time out, it's on the take home sheet as well.

OT- but where do you document any disciplinary action that is taken? If this were to happen to me, I wouldn't have any way of saying look, it happened here and this is what I did and the parents signed here? (like I need more paperwork though!)

I don't do this, I just meant it makes you want to say this.

[Oneluckymom]

In my personal opinion, parents today do not want to accept personal responsibility for their own actions or their Childs actions. Therefore, these parents are raising these same children with the same mentality.

This is a sad but good example of the enabling bevaiors these parents have with their children.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

[Kimberli]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, opinions and support. Really, really. I don't think the general population (or dare I say the State either) understands what we go through in this profession.

OneLuckyMom, I believe you hit the nail right on the head. This child was this mother's only baby and dad was much older with grown kids of his own. It was the only baby she was ever going to have and she could not stand to even see him mildly upset or to hear him cry. SHE would cry when he cried, even though she knew he was doing wrong. I fear that one day those tears will be from the other side of prison glass because he is being taught that to bully others is acceptable. As far as the Mom goes: it will always be the daycare provider's fault, the teacher's fault, the coach's fault, etc. And out of her "love" for him, she is ruining her son's future and creating a hard road for him. So sad all the way around.

Now I'm just not sure what to do about pursuing my expansion with this on my record. Has anyone had experience with a similar situation? Expanding with a citation on their record? I'm not sure what my chances are. Hate to waste all the time and money for nothing, you know - but I really need to be able to expand to help support my family financially.

So glad I posted here. Thanks again.

[daycare]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, opinions and support. Really, really. I don't think the general population (or dare I say the State either) understands what we go through in this profession.

OneLuckyMom, I believe you hit the nail right on the head. This child was this mother's only baby and dad was much older with grown kids of his own. It was the only baby she was ever going to have and she could not stand to even see him mildly upset or to hear him cry. SHE would cry when he cried, even though she knew he was doing wrong. I fear that one day those tears will be from the other side of prison glass because he is being taught that to bully others is acceptable. As far as the Mom goes: it will always be the daycare provider's fault, the teacher's fault, the coach's fault, etc. And out of her "love" for him, she is ruining her son's future and creating a hard road for him. So sad all the way around.

Now I'm just not sure what to do about pursuing my expansion with this on my record. Has anyone had experience with a similar situation? Expanding with a citation on their record? I'm not sure what my chances are. Hate to waste all the time and money for nothing, you know - but I really need to be able to expand to help support my family financially.

So glad I posted here. Thanks again.

I think that the only person that might be able to answer that question for you is your Licensor.

Also, unless you have to make some major changes to your house, it does not cost that much to go from small to large. Really most of the changes that you need to make are for the fire dept. You will have to make sure you meet all of their requirements and should start there. Once you turn in your application for the increase in your licence, you will get a packet of information from your local fire dept and they will let you know what you need to have done to your house if anything to pass their inspection. Once you have had your fire inspection and pass, you will then have licensing come back out for another in-home inspection.

I would still try to move forward with your plans and the worst case, they tell you no.....

[Unregistered]

Lots of Sympathy & similar questions.

We are kind of in the same boat. Long story short, we had a child sustain a minor (not even a bruise) injury with us. I explained it to mom when she picked her up, mom seemed okay with my explanation. The next day the redness around her eye was now two black eyes and "abrasions" on her face (the mothers words - we didn't see the child). I explained to the mother that this was not the way she left daycare, and reexplained that she was hit by a ball. DHS and Child welfare show up to investigate child abuse and lack of supervision. DCP says that we weren't supervising her correctly (even though two people witnessed the minor minor incident) and because there is a mark on the child, it is now a child abuse case. DCP told DHS that we offered her no explanation for the red eye. Luckily we had proof in the form of text messages showing that we explained what exactly happened.

Explained to DHS that the mark the child left with was so very small, and not anything close to the injuries her mother is describing. Not blaming anyone - but that was not how the child left my care (two other parents saw her within 15 minutes of her leaving) - and that is all I can vouch for.

Blah, blah, blah - their 60 day investigation window was up over a month ago, with no word from them. They have us on an extremely difficult to follow "safety plan" - and we cannot continue with any of our change in licensing plans that were in motion before this started.

So I understand your frustration. I am truly sorry for what you are going through.

In our state, parents have open access to those records - so hopefully if a parent was concerned enough about that being on your record, they would look at the files and see how completely ridiculous it is - and hopefully they parent in a way that would agree with your actions.

[sahm2three]

I agree, I don't do time outs for kids under the age of 2. But, it is this kind of thinking that, in my opinion, is ruining kids! They are growing up thinking they run the show, they don't have to show respect and can act in any way they want, and no adult is allowed to or should redirect their behavior. For fear of squashing their spirit?!?!? I am sorry, that is NOT the way the world works! The world does not revolve around the child. No child. Ugh. Kids have to learn how to treat others, and that there are consequences to not doing so. I am tired of the coddling behavior that is taking over parenting. Sorry for my rant, I am sorry you are going thru this. My thoughts are with you!

[LittleD]

It seems to me that there are really only two alternatives here:

1. Get a lawyer and fight like heck to get it removed from your record.

2. Try to get someone in licensing to pin down exactly what rules you violated, make sure you understand why they wrote you up, learn from it and move on. I know in my state you can't use time out under 3 years old.

As far as the former parent demanding her tuition back, I doubt that she has a legal leg to stand on. I'd tell her to get a life.

Good luck with this and keep us posted.

I agree! Bring this to a lawyer, get them to show you the regulations on this, and fight!!

Some kids at 18mths may not know what is expected for them, but a good deal of them do. I have a 19 mth old, and she knows the rules, but is spoiled by her mom. I think you did all you can do, and if you go to court, I'm sure many of us can give you a testimonial as to agreeing you did what you could!

Stand firm, and do not doubt yourself or your skills as a provider! lovethis to you!

[brightstarts]

I have a few thoughts/comments...

First, I wish I was in your state, because in NY, at least in centers, we CAN NOT use time out...actually, we can't say NO to a child at all. It's basically let them do what they want...I hate that! We can't even use a timer to indicate a turn is over, because a child shouldn't have to end their turn if they don't want to...yes, this is our government at work here!

OK, soapbox over...regarding timeout for an 18 month old. I'm a special education teacher for children under 5. Yes, an 18 month old may not understand the full reasoning of time out, but they are smarter than you think. An 18 month old is more than old enough to realize that when they do ABC than XYZ is going to happen. So, if they hit, they are going to sit..which they typically don't like and that goal would be that they learn not to do those things that make them sit. I actually recommend starting time outs at 1 year.

Third, you obviously have a parent that is out for revenge. I would first see about going over the person's head who denied your appeal. I don't know about your state, but in NY, our licensor has to approve all polices that we put into place. Did yours have to approve your discipline plan? If so, mention that!

Finally, about being sued...as much as it will stink to go through it, let her sue you. I really don't think she has any grounds to fall on. She paid for a service, you provided a service, if she didn't like the service she should have canceled it. Yes, her complaint was substantiated, but wasn't it for just that one day? The complaint wasn't for 5 months.

Just my 2 cents.

[Michelle]

wow! what you are going through is absolutely ridiculous!
This child is a very strong willed child and needs strict discipline and guidance or he is going to turn into a thug.
18 months is not too young for a time out and from what you said about him ripping off his moms glasses and slapping her, just keep replaying that vision in your mind to make you feel better. ::::::

Well, sounds like you have done every thing you can do, I would suggest talking to her supervisor and asking for another licensing agent.

hugs, and hang in there!
try to find out where he is going now and have a nice little convo with the new provider if you can.

[rhymia1]

I'm wondering if you called it something else, if that makes it okay? I had a child who would spit over everyone/everything and he wasn't quite 2. So if I could not be right with him, he went in the high chair. I gave him a toy or two, he wasn't isolated, but he couldn't spit on everyone while I made lunch...

[crazydaycarelady]

I do something similar to rhymia. I have what we call the "baby gate." It is really just a play yard gate thing filled with toys. When I have to answer the door or have an 18 mo hitting, etc. they go in the baby gate. I don't call it TO but that is kind of what it is. They are seperated but still in the same room.

I love how these paper pushers sit at a desk and think up rules when they have obviously never spent 2 seconds with 6+ children before. In my state they were trying to pass 2 new rules but the providers made such a stink they backed off. The changes they were trying for were: Providers have to be able to see AND hear children at all times. Sounds reasonable until you think about nap times? The rule now says see and/or hear. The second rule was that if we we're driving with a dcbaby in the car we had to have a second adult in the car with us. WHAT? The parent drove to our house with one adult in the car! The cancelled that ridiculousness altogether!

[Crystal]

You need to contact the child care advocate for your county. They will assist you in negotiating this with licensing, if they beleive that you have a legitimite complaint. I beleive you do, because no where in the regs does it state that we cannot use time out (that I am aware of, I will research this more later). Also, your licensor does not have the right to send you a letter that basically berates you and I would be addressing that for certain.

Here is a link to the California Child Caer Advocate- it is free-

http://www.ccld.ca.gov/PG491.htm

[Crystal]

Also, you may be able to get free assistance from the California Child Care Law center - another free resource:

http://childcarelaw.org/issues.shtml

[SilverSabre25]

Not much to say that hasn't been already; sounds ridiculous and unbelievable. One thing that keeps coming to mind is this: I wonder if the licensor is a friend of the mom?