Disbelief Over Licensing Citation

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  • Kimberli
    Daycare.com Member
    • Aug 2012
    • 93

    Disbelief Over Licensing Citation

    I would REALLY appreciate some honest feedback here. Forgive me if this gets a little lengthy, I will try to be brief. Thanks in advance …

    About 2 months ago, I had to terminate an 18 month old child for behavior (he became increasingly aggressive toward the end of the 5 months I watched him - he began spitting, throwing toys, pushing other kids down, climbing everything, screaming at the top of his lungs at nap time etc.) I was in communication with the mother about the child's behavior all along the way, and she stated she was having the same problems with the child at home. He would knock over all of her furniture, threw a toy across the room, splitting her lip, ripped her earrings from her ears repeatedly and once even slapped her across the face at pick up time.

    I used as much redirection as possible (which honestly, at the end, was just continual) and ultimately used time-out to calm him down as a means of correction.

    Finally, one day he became completely unmanageable and it literally took one of us (my assistant or I) tending to him one on one almost the entire day to prevent him from disrupting all the other children. At the end of the day, I let the mother know I was sorry, but that I felt I had exhausted the means available to me to keep her son mainstreamed into my group of kids. I told her that that day, I had needed to watch him individually or put him in and out of time out throughout the entire day, and that and that I believed he would be better watched elsewhere.

    Suddenly, she became defensive and stated that she had never got complaints anywhere else except at my facility. She continued to bring her son as she looked for another care provider (I told her I would give her a week to find suitable care) and finally when she found someone who could take him mid-week, she asked for the remaining 3 days of her money back. I normally don't give refunds, but felt it was best for all concerned that he move on as soon as possible so I returned her money and she left.

    Two weeks later, Licensing showed up at my door stating that a complaint had been filed against me. My analyst conducted an investigation and substantiated the complaint because I 'gave multiple time outs in a day' to this child, which in her opinion constitutes a violation of Title 22 and a child's personal rights. I was stunned, since I have a very clear discipline policy which includes redirection, expressing behavior expectations in age appropriate language (i.e. "we don't hit our friends"), and ultimately when necessary, a 'time-out' of 1 minute per age in years.

    I immediately sent an appeal to my analyst’s supervisor, explaining to her that this mother was angry and retaliatory in her filing of the complaint – that she herself used time out with her son many times in front of me and stating that I had never seen anything anywhere that suggests that using time out as a behavior modification is violating of a child’s personal rights. I asked for specific parameters or alternatives to my verbal command, redirect, time-out progression. I let her know that my licensing analyst required my corrective actions for this citation to be submitted the following day (a Saturday) and that one of my requirements was to call the local office of education and obtain information on disciplining difficult children – (which only led them to tell me that they don’t deal with discipline at all and handle only education related business for school aged children.) Ridiculous that my analyst wouldn’t know that when she assigned the task to me.

    I waited nearly a month without response to my appeal nor a return phone call to the voicemail I left her, and then last week I received a phone message from the previously terminated parent who is now, two months later, demanding a full refund for 5 months of full time child care or threatening to sue me, based on the substantiation of the complaint.

    Most surprising of all is that today I received the response to my appeal and not only did the supervisor deny my appeal, but she sent me a three page scathing letter suggesting that I clearly do not have a good understanding, nor the ability to meet the needs of children under 3 years of age. She said that I should know that at their cognitive level, they cannot understand my behavior expectations when I speak to them and that my discipline policy is impractical because I don’t break it down in writing to address each specific age group of children I watch from 6 weeks to 12 years. She suggested that I ‘reexamine’ the age of children I provide care for and only watch older children if I am unable to remain calm and professional when I am working with infants.

    WHAT???????????? Who said I was not calm and professional?

    My jaw is still on the floor. Here I am in the midst of applying to expand my license from 8 to 12 children and she is telling me that I’m lucky I haven’t already lost my license … because I gave a child several time-outs in one day before terminating him at pick up.

    Maybe I am completely deceiving myself, but I have raised 5 kids of my own, I have worked with many families in my daycare, my grown children nanny and babysit and EVERYONE I know uses this method to diffuse out of control behavior when nothing else works … up to and INCLUDING the parent who filed the complaint against me.

    I really don’t know what to do. I feel humiliated. I am SO good to the kids I watch. My home and my entire family are like extended family to my daycare kids and parents. I don’t know what to do about my expansion at this point. I don’t want to spend hundreds of dollars to have this same woman veto my request because she feels I am already and un-fit provider. She gave me nothing to hold on to by her tone in this letter that gives me hope I would be approved.

    I am a single mom who provides for a family of 6 with income from this business. I am just devastated. Someone please lend me some perspective. It’s things like this that make good people want to get out of the child-care profession. I am so disheartened.
  • daycarediva
    Daycare.com Member
    • Jul 2012
    • 11698

    #2
    In NY state, you are not allowed to put a child younger than 2 years of age in time out. Maybe that was the reason?

    Comment

    • rhymia1
      Daycare.com Member
      • Jul 2011
      • 220

      #3
      What is your state's policy on time outs? I know they are out of fashion now, but we can still do them. The one thing that may be in the rules is TO only for 2 and up. I might even get a lawyer who specialiazes in child care issues to help fight on my behalf. It's one thing to knowingly violate the rules, but rules need to be clear.

      Comment

      • familyschoolcare
        Advanced Daycare.com Member
        • Jun 2011
        • 1284

        #4
        IN my child development classes we learned that for children under that age of two we do not use time outs we talk to the child and redirect

        Comment

        • daycare
          Advanced Daycare.com *********
          • Feb 2011
          • 16259

          #5
          So sorry that you are having to go through all of this....Really stinks.

          It all does really sound unfair, but I will be honest with you, an 18month old is very young to be putting in time out over and over again. They don't even know the difference between right and wrong yet and it is our duty to teach them how we want them to conduct themselves within their environments.


          I know that there are others here that have much better experience with this type of thing and I really hope that it all ends well......


          One thing that I do have to say about CA LIC is that they are so grey about everything that NO one can seem to interpret anything


          Good Luck

          Comment

          • grandmom
            Daycare.com Member
            • Mar 2010
            • 766

            #6
            Oh my. I'm so sorry. If you lived in my state, I'd not be surprised at all with the analyst's review. They are that way here.

            Call your local state representative and (politely) demand a review.

            In the mean time, get all your ducks in a row. When the analysts find out you've done that, they will likely be back and will find more wrong. Get all your paper work in order too as they will audit it too.

            So sorry.

            Comment

            • Country Kids
              Nature Lover
              • Mar 2011
              • 5051

              #7
              This child I'm sure knew what they were doing was wrong. They were being over the top aggressive.

              If I was you, I would write down everything you told us-even what the child did to the mom.

              Let them know the reason for terming and even have your assistant write something up about the care this child needed to keep themselves and others safe.
              Each day is a fresh start
              Never look back on regrets
              Live life to the fullest
              We only get one shot at this!!

              Comment

              • Kimberli
                Daycare.com Member
                • Aug 2012
                • 93

                #8
                I don't generally use time out much with younger kids ... in fact, I don't usually need to use it at all - but this child's behavior was extreme. I am in California and cannot find any guidelines on what age time out may begin legally, but all parents I know use it as necessary when children show defiance or concerning behavior that doesn't respond to repeated redirection - Including this child's own mother!!!

                I DID ask just that ... what age then? Neither the analyst, nor the Supervisor had any response to that portion of my statement.

                If the State doesn't want me to use time-out (which is like one minute of removal from the situation to short-circuit the behavior) then tell me so - but now I must tell parents for the next year that I 'violate children's personal rights' ... I know I wouldn't sign my child up in a daycare with that type of complaint and I wouldn't blame anyone else for feeling the same.

                To that concern, my analyst said "oh - I've been in plenty of day care centers where parents don't even read what they sign and throw it in the trash." ... now, that's certainly comforting!!!!

                By the way, there is a ton of literature out there including from the American Academy of Pediatrics that suggests starting at 12 mos. to build a foundation for the child to learn consistent expectations, even if they don't fully understand the time-out concept.

                Comment

                • Willow
                  Advanced Daycare.com Member
                  • May 2012
                  • 2683

                  #9
                  Can you appeal again? Get a different pair of eyes on this?

                  I'd be taking it to the analysists supervisor?


                  What specifically constituted the time out's? Did you take him and sit him down in a specific chair and set a timer type deal you required him to sit through or did you sort of take him away from the situation and have him sit down to calm down with you for a minute?


                  I fear you're calling what you did a punitive punishment (time out) while the reality of it may be that what you were really doing was merely reasonable redirection.


                  Any word too on why they notified the parent before they notified you??

                  Comment

                  • Happy Hearts
                    Daycare.com Member
                    • May 2012
                    • 255

                    #10
                    I'm so sorry that you have to go through this.

                    Just makes you want to tell all the parents at pick up that their kid is a complete angel and you're so happy they chose you as their provider.

                    Comment

                    • daycarediva
                      Daycare.com Member
                      • Jul 2012
                      • 11698

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Sparrow
                      I'm so sorry that you have to go through this.

                      Just makes you want to tell all the parents at pick up that their kid is a complete angel and you're so happy they chose you as their provider.
                      I have to say that I find this especially sad. As a provider, we need to be on the same page as parents, but how can we when we are constantly concerned about reprisal?

                      I have one little girl that I am hesitant to tell any misbehaviors to the parents as they see it as an attack each and every time. I ALWAYS tell my parents when there was a time out, it's on the take home sheet as well.

                      OT- but where do you document any disciplinary action that is taken? If this were to happen to me, I wouldn't have any way of saying look, it happened here and this is what I did and the parents signed here? (like I need more paperwork though!)

                      Comment

                      • baysmom
                        New Daycare.com Member
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 5

                        #12
                        I'm sorry

                        Sounds to me like you were doing the right thing... I mean if redirection wasn't really working or benefiting anyone then sounds like that child needed a "time out" from everything. Although it stinks you're going through this, I'm glad you posted it on here so we can all learn from this. I hope you keep us all updated on what happens. I haven't opened my daycare yet, still in the process of getting licensed, but I will make sure I keep clear documentation of children such as yours just in case!

                        Comment

                        • MyAngels
                          Member
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 4217

                          #13
                          It seems to me that there are really only two alternatives here:

                          1. Get a lawyer and fight like heck to get it removed from your record.

                          2. Try to get someone in licensing to pin down exactly what rules you violated, make sure you understand why they wrote you up, learn from it and move on. I know in my state you can't use time out under 3 years old.

                          As far as the former parent demanding her tuition back, I doubt that she has a legal leg to stand on. I'd tell her to get a life.

                          Good luck with this and keep us posted.

                          Comment

                          • sharlan
                            Daycare.com Member
                            • May 2011
                            • 6067

                            #14
                            I would tell the parent that they were happy to use you for 5 months, until you termed, of course. You are not refunding her money. Let her sue. People can sue for anything, it doesn't mean they will win.

                            As for licensing, you will not find anything to back you up in writing. CA has more gray areas than they do in black and white. I really doubt you will get anywhere by going up the chain of command, either.

                            Comment

                            • crazydaycarelady
                              Not really crazy
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 1457

                              #15
                              I really have no advice but just wanted to say I am sorry about this situation. I can't believe she wants 5 months tuition back. That is ridiculous since you provided care for the child and if she was unhappy with your discipline she should not have stayed for 5 months.

                              The licensor just sounds like a power hungry B to me!

                              Comment

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