Has Anyone Dealt With This Before??

[VioletCupcake]

I have been watching a little girl (she will be two yrs. old in a few weeks), for a little over a year now, around three days a week. She does pretty well, except she is extremely stubborn. For example when I ask her complete a task that she does not want to do (like cleaning up, or to go sit at the table for lunch), she will close her eyes and put her head down. She talks pretty well, but refuses to answer anything I ask her most of the time. She really enjoys circle time and repeating things in a group as well as singing. I have talked with her mom a lot recently and her mom is shocked to hear how she acts here. I was even concerned about her hearing, because I will ask everyone to go sit on the rug and she goes to the playroom. Or when I say ok you can go to the playroom, she goes and lay down on the rug and no amount of calling her to come play with us will get her up. But other times she does exactly what I ask with no issues.

Well I recently started watching an infant (new sibling of one of my other daycare kids) 5 days/week. The baby has been doing great. But, the DCG is not adjusting well at all (she is an only child and has no young family members). Originally I thought that she was just fussy, or not feeling well. But I started noticing that she would cry as soon as the baby cried. Even if the baby fussed for just a second, she would start to cry and then quickly stop when the baby stopped. She has a history of being stubborn and fussing from time to time if she didn't get her way. But she has never cried this much. Yesyerday while she was eating lunch, the baby woke up and began to cry. She immediatly burst into tears and started throwing a fit. I went and got the baby and brought the baby (now happy) over to her so I could show her it was ok. She did ok until the baby let out a short fuss and she started screaming throwing her arms around and throwing her head backwards. I calmed her down and then had her help me feed the baby. We talked about how babies cry and how we can gently sush them and tell them it's ok. She seemed better and like she enjoyed helping. But the next time the baby cried she flipped out again and was on the ground kicking!

My plan is to keep helping her get used to the baby the best I can. I am planning on discussing it with her mom as well. I thought I would recomend that she maybe find some books about babies, or use a babydoll and pretend the baby is crying, and show her daughter how we can soothe the baby. The dad picked her up yesterday and I mentioned it to him, but I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm crazy. In my 16+ years of babysitting and working with kids I have never come across this. Maybe a little with a sibling, but never with another child and not this intense. And because the daycare girl doesn't really answer any questions or anything, it makes it difficult to discuss how she is feeling.
Has anyone dealt with this before? Any other suggestions of how to help her?

THANKS!

[cheerfuldom]

I have been watching a little girl (she will be two yrs. old in a few weeks), for a little over a year now, around three days a week. She does pretty well, except she is extremely stubborn. For example when I ask her complete a task that she does not want to do (like cleaning up, or to go sit at the table for lunch), she will close her eyes and put her head down. She talks pretty well, but refuses to answer anything I ask her most of the time. She really enjoys circle time and repeating things in a group as well as singing. I have talked with her mom a lot recently and her mom is shocked to hear how she acts here. I was even concerned about her hearing, because I will ask everyone to go sit on the rug and she goes to the playroom. Or when I say ok you can go to the playroom, she goes and lay down on the rug and no amount of calling her to come play with us will get her up. But other times she does exactly what I ask with no issues.
Well I recently started watching an infant (new sibling of one of my other daycare kids) 5 days/week. The baby has been doing great. But, the DCG is not adjusting well at all (she is an only child and has no young family members). Originally I thought that she was just fussy, or not feeling well. But I started noticing that she would cry as soon as the baby cried. Even if the baby fussed for just a second, she would start to cry and then quickly stop when the baby stopped. She has a history of being stubborn and fussing from time to time if she didn't get her way. But she has never cried this much. Yesyerday while she was eating lunch, the baby woke up and began to cry. She immediatly burst into tears and started throwing a fit. I went and got the baby and brought the baby (now happy) over to her so I could show her it was ok. She did ok until the baby let out a short fuss and she started screaming throwing her arms around and throwing her head backwards. I calmed her down and then had her help me feed the baby. We talked about how babies cry and how we can gently sush them and tell them it's ok. She seemed better and like she enjoyed helping. But the next time the baby cried she flipped out again and was on the ground kicking!
My plan is to keep helping her get used to the baby the best I can. I am planning on discussing it with her mom as well. I thought I would recomend that she maybe find some books about babies, or use a babydoll and pretend the baby is crying, and show her daughter how we can soothe the baby. The dad picked her up yesterday and I mentioned it to him, but I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm crazy. In my 16+ years of babysitting and working with kids I have never come across this. Maybe a little with a sibling, but never with another child and not this intense. And because the daycare girl doesn't really answer any questions or anything, it makes it difficult to discuss how she is feeling.
Has anyone dealt with this before? Any other suggestions of how to help her?

THANKS!

Are you sure that she does not have any hearing issues or a sensory disorder?

The reason I say this is that I think I have this EXACT girl here. Sometimes she responds well and will cooperate and other times she just freezes and will not communicate at all, or worse will cry a lot. She is very alarmed at babies crying too. She has only been here for about a month and I am not a trained professional with diagnosis but I suspect there is something more going on with her. She is not any only child but is 3.5 with no exposure to other kids and certainly not babies. Its hard to tell what is her adjusting and what is maybe something else.

BUT I do not allow her or any of the kids to help out with the babies in any physical way....no one touches the babys. I wouldnt have a problem with an older child showing a toy, reading a book or something next to the baby but I wouldnt want any child to feel that they have responsibility for the care of the baby. My DCG will try and pick up the babies or pull them out of the high chairs and stuff and that is not okay at all. Part of the reason why I am very careful about encouraging them to help

[Blackcat31]

Wow, that sounds like a tough situation to deal with.

It almost sounds like she might have some sort of sensory or auditory issue or delay. I have no clue but if the baby's crying upsets her so much, it jsut sounds like it has to do with hearing or processing information.

Maybe someone else here has some better input....

[daycare]

this might sound crazy but is englilsh the primary language at home?

I have a dck here that does this. age is 2.5. a lot of it what I think is because of language issues.

I also think that some of it is attention too. when she sees another child crying they get attention, so she will cry too. As soon as they stop, she stops. She does it all the time.

I could be wrong, but I am not too worried about it right now because the child does well in other ways.

[Willow]

Could be a sensory issue *BUT* if mom has never seen anything like that before at home it could also be that she's merely spoiled, defiant, sheltered, intolerant and/or undersocialized.

How I went about sorting out where I thought it was coming from would be more about evaluating how I felt about the parent. Is she realistic or does she think her child can do no wrong? Does she seem to have reasonable rules and boundaries that she enforces with her?

[VioletCupcake]

Could be a sensory issue *BUT* if mom has never seen anything like that before at home it could also be that she's merely spoiled, defiant, sheltered, intolerant and/or undersocialized.

How I went about sorting out where I thought it was coming from would be more about evaluating how I felt about the parent. Is she realistic or does she think her child can do no wrong? Does she seem to have reasonable rules and boundaries that she enforces with her?

Your response really hit the nail on the head! I am not totally sure that its a sensory issue. Although I do plan on looking into this more. And I still wonder about her hearing. Does anyone know if you can just have hearing sensory issues?
But I think your list (Spoiled, defiant, etc.) was right on And as far as evaluating the parents, well her mom is exactly what you said. She actually told me a few weeks ago that she was considering starting to discipline her . I however do dicipline her when she is repeatidly difiant. I also have thought that maybe she acts this way with me, because I am giving her directions and I follow through with dicipline and actually tell her no.
Even though her mom does think she is a genius, she does admit that she is a handful every evening. So, maybe she is having some sort of issue. I would tell her to consult her doctor, but even though her mom is a nurse and her dad is a med student, they hate bringing her to the doctor.
I did at one point think that maybe she needed tubes in her ears, as they stunk and would drain while she napped. But I don't think they ever had it checked out.

[VioletCupcake]

this might sound crazy but is englilsh the primary language at home?

I have a dck here that does this. age is 2.5. a lot of it what I think is because of language issues.

I also think that some of it is attention too. when she sees another child crying they get attention, so she will cry too. As soon as they stop, she stops. She does it all the time.

I could be wrong, but I am not too worried about it right now because the child does well in other ways.

Her primary(only) language is English. But that was a good thought! good luck with your dck!

[cheerfuldom]

Your response really hit the nail on the head! I am not totally sure that its a sensory issue. Although I do plan on looking into this more. And I still wonder about her hearing. Does anyone know if you can just have hearing sensory issues?
But I think your list (Spoiled, defiant, etc.) was right on And as far as evaluating the parents, well her mom is exactly what you said. She actually told me a few weeks ago that she was considering starting to discipline her . I however do dicipline her when she is repeatidly difiant. I also have thought that maybe she acts this way with me, because I am giving her directions and I follow through with dicipline and actually tell her no.
Even though her mom does think she is a genius, she does admit that she is a handful every evening. So, maybe she is having some sort of issue. I would tell her to consult her doctor, but even though her mom is a nurse and her dad is a med student, they hate bringing her to the doctor.
I did at one point think that maybe she needed tubes in her ears, as they stunk and would drain while she napped. But I don't think they ever had it checked out.

That ear issue is alarming.

The whole scenario could be a combination of things though. A really challenging kid combined with a possible sensory disorder or other issue combined with permissive parents.....yeah you definitely have your hands full with this one.

[VioletCupcake]

Are you sure that she does not have any hearing issues or a sensory disorder?

The reason I say this is that I think I have this EXACT girl here. Sometimes she responds well and will cooperate and other times she just freezes and will not communicate at all, or worse will cry a lot. She is very alarmed at babies crying too. She has only been here for about a month and I am not a trained professional with diagnosis but I suspect there is something more going on with her. She is not any only child but is 3.5 with no exposure to other kids and certainly not babies. Its hard to tell what is her adjusting and what is maybe something else.

BUT I do not allow her or any of the kids to help out with the babies in any physical way....no one touches the babys. I wouldnt have a problem with an older child showing a toy, reading a book or something next to the baby but I wouldnt want any child to feel that they have responsibility for the care of the baby. My DCG will try and pick up the babies or pull them out of the high chairs and stuff and that is not okay at all. Part of the reason why I am very careful about encouraging them to help

I don't have much experience with sensory issues. But that is a great thought! I know she can hear, and her speech is clear (when she does talk). Her mom claims she speaks in full sentences and uses correct english. I have had other crying children here before and while she got annoyed, it was in no way like this. I don't mind if the kids help out as long as I'm with them- but they are never alone with the baby so thats not an issue. I normally don't try and get them to help or play with them unless they show interest - but I just couldn't think of anything else.

[Angelsj]

You can absolutely have sensory issues with hearing. My 12 yo has earplugs he carries with him for times when he is overwhelmed with sound.
He also cannot stand a child crying and will yell at them to shut up. I just send him off to his room (which is generally where he wanted to go in the first place..)

[countrymom]

Could be a sensory issue *BUT* if mom has never seen anything like that before at home it could also be that she's merely spoiled, defiant, sheltered, intolerant and/or undersocialized.

How I went about sorting out where I thought it was coming from would be more about evaluating how I felt about the parent. Is she realistic or does she think her child can do no wrong? Does she seem to have reasonable rules and boundaries that she enforces with her?

I will gaurentee that she is spoiled and if she doesn't get her way this is what she is doing. This is exactly what my niece who is 4 does. When she doesn't get her way she would pretend not to hear you (my sis even brought her to the hearing specialist) she is not disciplined at all and is undersocialized. She's also an only child. The crying with the baby is so easy to see, its like pavlovs theory---crying baby=attention, crying child=attention. I would not put up with her silliness.

[Crystal]

With the ignoring of your directions, I would give her a choice _ " You can either join us on your own, or I will help you join us" when she refuses to join, simply pick her up and bring her to where you want her to be. I do not allow children to ignore me. I am not mean about it, but they do not have the option of ignoring a request from me.

With the crying because the baby cries, I would tell her that the baby NEEDS me right now, that she can either lay down in a cozy area and cry while I tend to the baby, or she can join her peers playing. If she refuses to do either, I would gently lay her down on a mat and let her know when she decided she is done with the crying/flailing/fit throwing, she can join the rest of the group.

I would no longer discuss this with the parent. Just deal with the behavior as you see fit (within reason of course) and go about your day. The Mom cannot do anything about it as she is not there, and it seems she is just likely to make excuses for or deny the behavior anyways. I also would not be giving sensory issues, etc. any thought YET and would NOT mention it to the parent, as that just gives her an excuse to condone the child's behavior. IF there are sensory issues, time will tell. If there are sensory issues, you would be seeing it at other times as well, not just when the child is being told to do something or when the baby cries.

As the adult, you take control of the situation. End of story

[countrymom]

With the ignoring of your directions, I would give her a choice _ " You can either join us on your own, or I will help you join us" when she refuses to join, simply pick her up and bring her to where you want her to be. I do not allow children to ignore me. I am not mean about it, but they do not have the option of ignoring a request from me.

With the crying because the baby cries, I would tell her that the baby NEEDS me right now, that she can either lay down in a cozy area and cry while I tend to the baby, or she can join her peers playing. If she refuses to do either, I would gently lay her down on a mat and let her know when she decided she is done with the crying/flailing/fit throwing, she can join the rest of the group.

I would no longer discuss this with the parent. Just deal with the behavior as you see fit (within reason of course) and go about your day. The Mom cannot do anything about it as she is not there, and it seems she is just likely to make excuses for or deny the behavior anyways. I also would not be giving sensory issues, etc. any thought YET and would NOT mention it to the parent, as that just gives her an excuse to condone the child's behavior. IF there are sensory issues, time will tell. If there are sensory issues, you would be seeing it at other times as well, not just when the child is being told to do something or when the baby cries.

As the adult, you take control of the situation. End of story

I agree totally

[daycare]

With the ignoring of your directions, I would give her a choice _ " You can either join us on your own, or I will help you join us" when she refuses to join, simply pick her up and bring her to where you want her to be. I do not allow children to ignore me. I am not mean about it, but they do not have the option of ignoring a request from me.

With the crying because the baby cries, I would tell her that the baby NEEDS me right now, that she can either lay down in a cozy area and cry while I tend to the baby, or she can join her peers playing. If she refuses to do either, I would gently lay her down on a mat and let her know when she decided she is done with the crying/flailing/fit throwing, she can join the rest of the group.

I would no longer discuss this with the parent. Just deal with the behavior as you see fit (within reason of course) and go about your day. The Mom cannot do anything about it as she is not there, and it seems she is just likely to make excuses for or deny the behavior anyways. I also would not be giving sensory issues, etc. any thought YET and would NOT mention it to the parent, as that just gives her an excuse to condone the child's behavior. IF there are sensory issues, time will tell. If there are sensory issues, you would be seeing it at other times as well, not just when the child is being told to do something or when the baby cries.

As the adult, you take control of the situation. End of story

I agree with this too...

Like I was saying in my previous post, the child can do other things no problem, but the not listening issue and crying when others cry happens and I know she is doing it for attention.

I would do what Crystal suggested, because there is still plenty of time to see if there are "real" issues going on with this child or not.

[VioletCupcake]

With the ignoring of your directions, I would give her a choice _ " You can either join us on your own, or I will help you join us" when she refuses to join, simply pick her up and bring her to where you want her to be. I do not allow children to ignore me. I am not mean about it, but they do not have the option of ignoring a request from me.

With the crying because the baby cries, I would tell her that the baby NEEDS me right now, that she can either lay down in a cozy area and cry while I tend to the baby, or she can join her peers playing. If she refuses to do either, I would gently lay her down on a mat and let her know when she decided she is done with the crying/flailing/fit throwing, she can join the rest of the group.

I would no longer discuss this with the parent. Just deal with the behavior as you see fit (within reason of course) and go about your day. The Mom cannot do anything about it as she is not there, and it seems she is just likely to make excuses for or deny the behavior anyways. I also would not be giving sensory issues, etc. any thought YET and would NOT mention it to the parent, as that just gives her an excuse to condone the child's behavior. IF there are sensory issues, time will tell. If there are sensory issues, you would be seeing it at other times as well, not just when the child is being told to do something or when the baby cries.

As the adult, you take control of the situation. End of story

Don't worry, she is definitely not getting her way by any means. And I think that's why I get so much resistance from her. I am not mean, but I do follow through and there are consequences. But, most of the time she resists things that have to be done - like sitting down at the table for lunch or coming in from outside. If she refuses to clean up, I let the other kids clean there part and then leave some for her to clean up. She is more than capable of doing the things I ask of her.
And I don't think this is a sensory issue. But I truly hadn't even thought of that and the suggestion was an interesting one.

My big concern with the baby/crying situation is that it has been EXTREMELY disruptive!! All the kids are getting stressed out (including me and my husband). I'm pretty sure this is not something she is doing for attention. Maybe, but she doesn't really care about me when she is screaming. She never comes over to me or reaches out for me. She is just really ticked off, not so much sad but like hysterical with anger. I do talk to her and explain what is going on- then if the baby continues to fuss, and she won't stop, I separate her and tell her she can come back to the group when she is finished. But the tricky part is that she ONLY cries while the baby is crying. She is still upset/shaken up after, but she stops screaming the instant the baby stops. So she comes back to play and the baby coughs or makes any type of noise and she flips out again.

I haven't talked to her mom about it, because I am still getting my thoughts together. I do think that it's mostly useless. But I feel like her mom has the right to know why she is having all these bad days. I am going to wait and see how the next week or two go before I mention anything.

Thanks so much to everyone! Y'all have really helped me!