What Would You Do?

[countrymom]

OP, I would do exactly what you are planning to do and then term as soon as possible. At this point, its not about this boy, its about keeping the other kids safe and the destruction down to a minimum.

I HATE HATE HATE the phrase "boys will be boys" .....big fat cop out

I agree too.

[itlw8]

yes you can put him in that while you go to the bathroom or perhaps fix lunch But NO you can not leave him in that all day.

I have that shelf and it tips over very easily. Children his age dump toys all that is normal. Pica is not normal but I have no idea what they can do about it excpt supervise.

If they only way you can deal with him is to contain him then yes you need to terminate for his good. You do not want to add to his problems.

[Sunchimes]

This won't be much help with the terming/confinement issue, but did you say that he pulled the whole unit over? I have the same thing, and I took a length of strapping tape (metal strip with holes in it. I think you use it to hold up pipes under houses or something.) Anyway, it is very sturdy, but flexible. The edges are sort of sharp, so I doubled a length of fleece and stitched a slipcover for it. I wrapped it around the top back rail and screwed it to the wall. My littles used it to pull up until they learned to walk, and it never wobbled an inch. I know this is of minor help, but thought I'd mention it. Good luck. I know it's a tough decision when we have to weigh our sanity and safety with financial issues.

[brookeroo]

all day you want to separate this child?

also maybe I am slow, but why does the child need to go to the doctor?

He is now 21 months old. I have had him since he was 16 months old and he has (prior to me taking him on) had all of his teeth but chews non-stop all day long. He chews my toys up, he eats his diaper, he chews on his arms creating bruises/hickeys, crayons, markers, paper, his feet, he has chewed his shoes up at home and has tried to chew up my husbands shoes, my furniture (wooden bench, banister to my stairway, kitchen chairs, boosters, ect), rocks, sticks, leaves, blankets, he has licked dirt off my husbands mower tractor wheels as well as his wheel barrell, he eats dirt, sand, lint, hair, he scratches at my couches and carpet to get the fuzz to come off the surface and to create a hole to get to the fuzz inside. His mother said that he has chewed the entire railing around his crib to the point they cannot use the crib for the next child. They also put a guard over the rail to keep him from continuing to chew it and he has pried it off and continued chewing it.

Should I keep going?

I have asked her to take him to the doctor or at least call and talk to them about it and she gets offended and defensive about it. When she took him to the doctor last for his well check she said that she mentioned the diaper eating and the doctor told her it was normal and give him a chew toy and therefore I should just drop it and apparently allow it to continue.

Personally I don't feel that keeping him next to me every minute of the day is any healthier for him than it would be to coral him in a superyard in the same room all the other kids are in. I really don't feel that having him under my feet while I'm trying to cook is all that safe. I have stuck him at the table while I've cooked and he screeches the whole time which in turn ... drives everyone crazy. I can't let him color because he eats the crayons and ironically he won't eat most food. ...which his mom said she's fine with. I have a large kitchen so to leave him wondering around while I'm cooking... he is either going to be under my feet in my way or off chewing on something while I'm focused on cooking. For as much of a chore as it is watching this child I don't need to be burning all the food while I'm trying to constantly re-direct what she calls a "habit".

[nanglgrl]

I had a daycare kid with PICA, she could eat all of the sand out of the sandbox if you didn't sit right next to her. Apparently her parents didn't watch her as close as I did because I can remember many Monday mornings where I went to change her first diaper and it was mostly sand.

[brookeroo]

BTW? Does he have PICA? The eating disorder?

I think he has some type of disorder like that. Pica or an Oral Sensory Disorder of some type... I've also heard that lead poisoning can cause reactions like this but it's hard to say what it is because the doctor said that based on mom's conversation with him that it's all normal.

[countrymom]

I have a kid like this--he's going to school now. But he would like the stones out of my driveway (its all gravel with oil in it) so I did some research and kids who eat and like things are low on iron. Has she had him tested for iron levels. Start giving him stuff with high in iron even vitamins and see if that helps.

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

I agree that there are obviously other issues that this child should see a doctor for but, in answer to the main question. I have a playyard that I use with a child similar to this (1 1/2). This kido is quick and gets into things that other kids would never even think of! (taking the front off the window airconditioner etc) If I can not directly supervise him he is in the yard. Sometimes by himself sometimes with another child. But he is still in the playroom so he has communication with the others and gets to see them play but I know he is safe! When I can supervise he is out. When he does something he is not suppose to do I sit him down on his bottom where ever he is and tell him no. He will stand up and start to reach again I set him down again. Now, I started this process about a month ago and believe it or not, he is improving. He will look at me and I will say no and he stops and moves on. I still do not leave him unsupervised but when I am there he is doing better He has no limits at home, they just get mad at him when he does something. I feel like this is what I can do. Train when I can and secure when I can't

[My3cents]

So I have one of these in my playroom. The same child who has all his teeth and chews up my house as well as himself creating hickeys on his arms and all my toys has progressively gotten more destructive by scratching at my carpet and furniture to create lint that he can eat. We have had issues with him throwing which has gotten a little better but the chewing persists and has increased despite having gotten toys for him to redirect him with (which is a full time job in it's own) and now that he is getting closer to 2 years old we are having a lot more issues with him not listening all together.

Today, he decided to dump all of my duplo legos (two big bins) as well as pull the toy bins (that you see above) completely over 3 times while I was in the kitchen making lunch...spilling all of the toys out and now I cannot trust that he won't pull it over on another child. SO as a last resort... I was going to get a superyard and keep him quarantined in it with toys he is allowed to chew on and that way I don't have to be concerned with him hurting one of the other kids.

HOWEVER, I'm completely sure that his mother is going to flip out (which I'm fine with at this point) that I'm not letting him be free. Her response whenever he does stuff like this is a chuckle and says "boys will be boys, sorry he was a little butt for you". If I make a big deal out of things she always throws her hands up in the air and says "well I don't know what to do, I can't stop it. What do you want me to do?". Uhm... at least take your kid to the freakin doctor and be honest with them! There is a start! I could deal with these issues if she was genuinely concerned with fixing them but they aren't interested in early intervention.

Since I can't get her to get real about this child's state of various problems I pretty much am fine with her leaving but I just want to know... am I out of line for keeping an almost 2 year old child quarantined all day or even most of it? I'm sure he will begin throwing again once I do this... I am just at the point where I cannot continue with things the way that they are and they have made it clear they are not interested in confronting these problems.

Without reading the responses yet, this my thoughts.

Do what you have to do when the child is in your care and don't ask permission from the parents. If she see's that he is separated from the others, explain he was having a hard time being with all the other children.

The word quarantined to me, sounds like a word that is used for an animal. IF your intentions are to treat this child like an animal, then you should let him go. If your planning to teach him what is acceptable in your home and what is not by using a gate, then try it. I am thinking that at two he will just plow that gate over.

My best idea for you is to be by his side for a while. When he does something he shouldn't do, correct him then and there. If you can't be directly on top of him, put him in a high chair while you make lunch. He will get it after a while.

It is normal for toy chewing and dumping. Chewing is related to teething and toy dumping is cause and effect. He has to understand the effect that if he dumps toys he is going to pick them up. My kids are coming out of this stage and it was not fun and took a lot of work on my part. They just don't know and they do what they can do. Dumping once learned is easy and gives the sense of control over something.

Good luck it is a tiring stage to go through but very normal in development.

Off to read the rest of the responses now.

[My3cents]

Sounds like he is getting his 2nd year molars.

I would try working with this before terming. The age that your at right now can be very trying on us providers.

When he can't be right next to you so that you can redirect him right away from the issues, I would put him in a high chair with a table toy.

Mom can stay in denial. She knows what her child is like and either doesn't care, or it doesn't bother her or she does not see his behavior as a problem. Worry about when he is in your care, because it is out of your control when he is home. If she has issues with that, tell her that you do what you feels is best when he is in your care. If that is not good enough let them go.

If you still feel it is a concern for the Dr. request that she bring in a note from her pediatrician. She refuses, she is putting the other kids at harm and reason to let her go.

Good luck-

[brookeroo]

I agree that there are obviously other issues that this child should see a doctor for but, in answer to the main question. I have a playyard that I use with a child similar to this (1 1/2). This kido is quick and gets into things that other kids would never even think of! (taking the front off the window airconditioner etc) If I can not directly supervise him he is in the yard. Sometimes by himself sometimes with another child. But he is still in the playroom so he has communication with the others and gets to see them play but I know he is safe! When I can supervise he is out. When he does something he is not suppose to do I sit him down on his bottom where ever he is and tell him no. He will stand up and start to reach again I set him down again. Now, I started this process about a month ago and believe it or not, he is improving. He will look at me and I will say no and he stops and moves on. I still do not leave him unsupervised but when I am there he is doing better He has no limits at home, they just get mad at him when he does something. I feel like this is what I can do. Train when I can and secure when I can't

That is kind of where I am at with this...pretty much exactly actually. They don't really discipline him for things much, if at all. They feel a 15-30 second time out is sufficient. I really don't think he gets the whole time out thing. It doesn't bother him to be sat in another room for 1-2 minutes away. I have even left him there for up to 3-4 minutes... he doesn't care. He will sit there and try to chew on my furniture so I have to stand there in the doorway with him. I've begun just putting him up in his nap area because sitting for the time outs are not accomplishing anything. They have no effect.

My husband said that he doesn't feel like the many times he's been around this child that he is really all quite "there". He doesn't connect much and seems to have major anxiety when there is change or new people/kids around. It's all hearsay. I can't diagnose this child of course... This is not a teething problem. I know that much. I just know that something is not right with him. I'm not someone with training on how to deal with special needs either. It could be medical ...something that could be helped, and it could be something that they have to live with. Who knows.

It's unfortunate because its a matter of time before they will have to come to terms with whatever it is. I know at some point they will have to but all I can do is ensure the safety of everyone involved. I will try the iron thing but like I said I'm having a difficult time getting him to eat anything that is actually food related. They pretty much feed him cheezits and animal crackers ect for dinner she said.

Despite the fact that I have mostly very small children they expect me to have him outside all the time when weather permits. He is one of my oldest ones at 21 months old so you can imagine how easy that is. Especially since I have had two who are now 6 month old. As of now I'm not going to terminate until I'm in a better place to do so but it is down the line if things do not drastically improve. If they were to leave I would not be upset about it though. I do like them. They are very nice people but they are just not living in reality. It's amazing what expectations people have for others to just live with because they pay them $100/a week.

[Crystal]

Time out is completely useless, especially for his age.....he's not going to "get it" as you say.

If he is chewing stuff, try redirecting him " I cannot let you chew on that, see what happens when you chew on that" (show him) "If you want to chew on something, you can chew on this" and then give him something he CAN chew on......This may be a sensory thing and I would try to accomodate it the best I can.

In regards to putting him in a playyard for "most of the day", as a parent I would be absolutley LIVID if I thought my child were being separated and segregated for most of the day. He is not going to learn anything by being excluded from the group....except to maybe become an angry little boy who never learns to self-regulate and control his own behaviors. If you feel this is your only alternative then you need to term care and let them find a provider who can meet his individual needs.

The iron solution mught be good, but I would not do that without a doctor's note. Too much iron is not a good thing, just as too little iron is not a good thing.

Good luck.

[daycare]

Time out is completely useless, especially for his age.....he's not going to "get it" as you say.

If he is chewing stuff, try redirecting him " I cannot let you chew on that, see what happens when you chew on that" (show him) "If you want to chew on something, you can chew on this" and then give him something he CAN chew on......This may be a sensory thing and I would try to accomodate it the best I can.

In regards to putting him in a playyard for "most of the day", as a parent I would be absolutley LIVID if I thought my child were being separated and segregated for most of the day. He is not going to learn anything by being excluded from the group....except to maybe become an angry little boy who never learns to self-regulate and control his own behaviors. If you feel this is your only alternative then you need to term care and let them find a provider who can meet his individual needs.

The iron solution mught be good, but I would not do that without a doctor's note. Too much iron is not a good thing, just as too little iron is not a good thing.

Good luck.

This this is what I was trying to say...thanks crystal

ALL Children need loving touch and human interaction, leaving a child in one of those all day is cruel.

if you only need to do it when you have to cook food or go to the bathroom, or things like this I can understand. I have had to put a 2.5 year old in a pack in play in the hallway when I went to the toilet so that I could go without them getting hurt. They were in it for about 30 seonds to a min each time I had to go to the bathroom.

It does sound like the best thing for this child would be to let him go.

[MaritimeMummy]

Constant destruction of toys and things in the living space, with no concern from the parents, warrants a terming. I term for very few things but this would be one of them. Anytime a parent is not on board with me, or doesn't take a problem with their child seriously, is not long to stay.

I had this problem back in March. Not that he was destroying everything, but that he was really just having problems adapting and I was having problems finding a way to communicate with him (he was undiagnosed in the Autistic spectrum, his mother admitted that it was likely he was Autistic but that she had no desire to get him tested). I tried numerous times to talk to her about it, but she refused to come back in the evenings to discuss it without him (saying that she drives too much in the run of a day as it is, so she just wants to be home in the evenings). I told her one day when she picked him up that he needed to show even a tiny bit of improvement in the next 2 weeks or she needed to find alternate care. She pulled him that night. She knew where it was going to go and she just didn't even care. no help or concern on her part. So sad.

[Sugar Magnolia]

I think it might be best to term. The "super yard" looks like it should be called "kiddie jail." Fine for infants maybe, but yeah, a two year old will just push it or try to climb out. I'm also with Crystal, I think the parents would be upset with "most of the day". It really sounds like the destruction is just too ingrained in him, please consider terming Asap.