Correct or Incorrect?

[Blackcat31]

I don[t see how it is illegal to turn away a child based on a disability...like me personally, I am not equipped to deal with nor am I trained to handle a disabled child. I would be underqualified and would likely be dangerous for me to care for them. If I accepted a child that is special needs, the parents likely assume I have special needs training and education. If something comes back and I harm this child inadvertently, then what? What woudl have been better for that family, me being upfront and saying, "No, sorry, I am not properly trained or equipped to care for your child" or accepting the child and eventually coming back and saying, "I'm sorry I've injured your child"?:confused:

I don't know if Canada is the same as the US with ADA laws and rules but according to the ADA you canNOT exclude a child just because you feel you are not trained or educated about the disability.

The ADA says, the provider must make reasonable modifications or reasonable efforts to their policies and practices to include children, parents, and guardians with disabilities in their programs unless doing so would be a fundamental alteration of their program. These modifications can include trainings about a specific disability and or physical modification to the environment or building.

In order to demonstrate “reasonable efforts,” childcare providers must attempt to access available resources outside of their programs. For example, resources to support the inclusion of a child with a disability may be provided by your state's Early Intervention System or by a local school district through its special education program. Many of these programs offer free training for child care programs.

So basically you MUST accept a child with special needs, even if you lack the training or knowledge about their disability. According to the ADA, it is our responsibilty to get the necessary training. If it does cost, we are to spread the cost over all families and not just to the family of the SN child.

The one exception I see repeated in the info from the ADA is you can exclude them IF they pose a direct threat to the safety of other children in care or if the level of care they require means putting the other kids in danger or having less supervision than they would need. But then the suggestion is to hire an assistant and defer that expense across the board to ALL families and if you used that as a reason, it still seems you have to prove it.

I think there are probably a dozen ways to not enroll a child with a disability but regardless of the reasons why, it just cannot be about the disability itself, like a previous poster said, it is probably all in the wording you use or reasons given to refuse enrollment .

[nanglgrl]

In Iowa we are reimbursed at a higher rate if the child has a disabilty. I think they have to qualify as being disabled though. I had a daycare child who did everything on par with her age group but had several surgeries on her skull because of how it was formed. She could play normally but if she bumped her head I had to be watchful of any abnormal symptoms. I was reimbursed at a higher rate for her and her mother received "x" amount of hours a week of care by an aide who would come to her home to give mom a break. This child was no more care than other children but I was reimbursed more, mom received money because of the disability and free help on top of my state paid care to give mom a break.

We were taught that you can turn down a child with a disability in a class (or any child for that matter) and the information was based on Tom Copeland's books. Basically you can turn down any child but it can not be about religion, sex, race or disability. If a child requires more work because of a disability you can say that you can't provide the needed care because you are not equipt to provide it. This could mean you don't have a ramp for a wheelchair or even that you cant change diapers if you do a program just for potty trained preschoolers.

I once turned down an 8 year old child who was dealing with severe autism. Mom said he was prone to fits where he would kick his legs and flail his arms. I told her that because of the younger children that could get hurt by his flailing arms and legs I didn't think it would be safe. That said, I have a child who goes to special needs preschool because of behavior and speech problems ( also not potty trained) and I am not paid more for him by the state. I do not believe potty training and speech delays necessarily make him disabled so he does not qualify.

Also, I think the rules are different in homes compared to centers. Centers, as far as I know, are required to do more you meet the special needs of a child. Pretty much you can't say "I won't take Johnny because of his autism" but you can say "I can't take Johnny because I am not equipt to handle his needs". The same way some do not accept children who are not potty trained because we don't change diapers or others do not accept school aged children because of their size/energy...we don't have to if the child needs more than we can provide. In my experience parents who have a child who live with different needs understand that a home provider would probably struggle.

[logged out]

I feel as a home provider I can turn away any child I feel is not a good fit for my daycare. We've all said that hundreds of times when talking about interviews, right?? I think again, the key is not to say it is the disability itself - but the fact that you feel you would not be able to provide adequate care to ALL in your group is a legitimate reason.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT MY LICENSOR SAYS-WORD FOR WORD! We cant be forced to take any child and parents shouldnt be allowed to use ability or disability to their favor.

And the parent is already getting funds to care for her child- atleast in my area. More $ than one can imagine, and not for medical pmts either. Tell mom to use that $ or call her support worker.

[Kaddidle Care]

To the other poster paying ridiculously high taxes because of special needs kids- from a Mom of a kid receiving services---THANK YOU! We really DO appreciate it! Our school started a special program so that they wouldn't have to bus kids and pay more, it's absolutely amazing and is just about double what a regular ed kid costs BUT that includes a 6:1 ratio classroom, all of the services and therapies individual kids need, and a FREE before and after school program for the kids whose parents work FT. It's the MAIN REASON we changed districts. Also, most people aren't aware of this, but the school bills our private insurance for therapies, and only provide through school funding what our insurance doesn't cover and that he NEEDS. So my copays & deductibles apply. It isn't a free ride (and we don't call him the million dollar baby for nothin!!!!!!!!)

That would be me with the ridiculously high taxes. $4,800.00 for a 2 bedroom bungalow is rather steep (don't you think?) and approximately 75% of that goes to schools. Approximate cost of education per student here is $12,500.00 per year which includes those going to school for $80-100,000.00 per year. (a private College is approximately $50,000.00 per year!)

We have people in town that look for a reason to classify their children be it speech or simply a child that likes to walk on their toes. (yes, I know this can indicate autism but not always) This way they can get their child in free preschool so they can go out and get a job or just plain get free childcare.

I feel my child is special too. I would love to send him to the best private school available but can't afford it. A 6/1 ratio would be awesome. I would love that for my child!

When you have a disabled child do you or do you not receive disability or Social Security money? Does this money get applied to their education bill?

While your child's education costs twice what my child's education costs, I don't begrudge the child. There just has to be a better way. A limit on what can be charged is a start. Special Ed is big business these days.

[daycarediva]

That would be me with the ridiculously high taxes. $4,800.00 for a 2 bedroom bungalow is rather steep (don't you think?) and approximately 75% of that goes to schools. Approximate cost of education per student here is $12,500.00 per year which includes those going to school for $80-100,000.00 per year. (a private College is approximately $50,000.00 per year!)

We have people in town that look for a reason to classify their children be it speech or simply a child that likes to walk on their toes. (yes, I know this can indicate autism but not always) This way they can get their child in free preschool so they can go out and get a job or just plain get free childcare.

I feel my child is special too. I would love to send him to the best private school available but can't afford it. A 6/1 ratio would be awesome. I would love that for my child!

When you have a disabled child do you or do you not receive disability or Social Security money? Does this money get applied to their education bill?

While your child's education costs twice what my child's education costs, I don't begrudge the child. There just has to be a better way. A limit on what can be charged is a start. Special Ed is big business these days.

It has turned into a business, and it has turned into a very lucrative business and many doctors/districts/specialists are very corrupt. It honestly makes me SOOO mad that they just throw a diagnosis around and then expect the school district to foot the bill. Then again, districts LOVEEEE to bill insurance, ours actually tried to get us to pay for more services so that they could bill our insurance more.

In our district, a child has to have a diagnosis from a developmental specialists (there are around 6 in the state that they accept) it took us four years to get the dx because we had to pay for it out of pocket (around 6k, a complete physical/medical, psychological and educational eval, it took two weeks!) Our ds was diagnosed with asd. They need the 6:1 ratio because of the level of care these children need (they are all moderate-severe asd). I don't envy his teacher in the least (and I make more than she does). Social security is income dependent, we have never been eligible. We also aren't eligible for state health care for him, so we have to pay for his copays on speech and occupational therapy out of pocket, as well as paying privately for insurance (both dh and I are self employed) and paying our deductible. We aren't eligible for respite (so we cannot take a vacation, ever because ds would never be able to tolerate it), we aren't eligible for help with ANYTHING. I'm fine with that. We pay our own way, and we pay DS's way. Our school taxes pay well over what ds's 'tuition' is. (It's around 8,000)

What our district did is create a separate wing off of each building (primary/intermediate/elementary) and hire on the staff instead of contracting them out. I know for a fact that they bill enough therapy to insurance for 3 kids in speech to pay the speech teachers annual salary. (and she handles 6 classrooms of 6 kids each).

There was a BIG issue last september over a mother trying to get her ADHD son in this wing. The school wouldn't allow him to. He is NOT disabled enough to justify it, the mother could never get the correct diagnosis from an approved pediatric developmental specialist, etc. So I am really happy that they won't allow people to abuse the system.

When my son was in prek, he had to go to a special needs school and we paid $350/w (the average prek cost was $150 and that's what we paid for dd 2 years prior) I was actually told during the interview that if I just STOPPED WORKING I could get social security, health insurance, free preschool, etc. I gave her a piece of my mind. If everyone STOPS WORKING, who is PAYING THESE BILLS!??!

[nanglgrl]

Years ago, before I became a childcare provider, I worked in group homes and independent living facilities. Clients with severe disabilities lived in the group homes and our job was to help them get through their day to day tasks and to do the things for them that they were unable to do themselves. The clients with minor disabilities or with disabilities that could be managed lived in independent facilities like apartments, the staff lived in one apartment and the clients lived in the other apartments in the building. Our job with them was to teach them to be even more independent with the goal of them living on their own with little to no assistance. I quit my job there when they started closing the independent facilities and placing everyone in group homes..... The reason was because there was no money to be made in making our clients independent but if they were in group homes we had so much money coming in that we had to do "spend downs" on clients accounts so they wouldn't lose benefits. A spend down meant buying new furniture or other expensive items. The main living quarters of the group home had new furniture every few months. It was business, a dirty nasty business that I could not take part in. I hope things have changed since then but something tells me it has probably gotten worse.

[Blackcat31]

In Iowa we are reimbursed at a higher rate if the child has a disabilty. I think they have to qualify as being disabled though. I had a daycare child who did everything on par with her age group but had several surgeries on her skull because of how it was formed. She could play normally but if she bumped her head I had to be watchful of any abnormal symptoms. I was reimbursed at a higher rate for her and her mother received "x" amount of hours a week of care by an aide who would come to her home to give mom a break. This child was no more care than other children but I was reimbursed more, mom received money because of the disability and free help on top of my state paid care to give mom a break. .

Legally if you are taking the higher reimbursement rate for that child, you wold have to charge ALL families the same rate UNLESS your contract is worded to state that children requiring more one to one care are charged a higher rate. Your state may have been providing the higher rate but they should have made sure that ALL families were charged this rate. That is the info told to me by the ADA.

We were taught that you can turn down a child with a disability in a class (or any child for that matter) and the information was based on Tom Copeland's books. Basically you can turn down any child but it can not be about religion, sex, race or disability. If a child requires more work because of a disability you can say that you can't provide the needed care because you are not equipt to provide it. This could mean you don't have a ramp for a wheelchair or even that you cant change diapers if you do a program just for potty trained preschoolers.

Legally you ARE obligated to make architectural changes such as adding ramps. Each case is different according to the ADA but REASONABLE efforts by the provider must be made in regards to equipment and/or training so that we are equipt to take care of the child.

You can turn the child down in regards to the diapers ONLY IF other children in diapers are also turned down. This would make the denial of entrance about the diapers and not about the disability.

I once turned down an 8 year old child who was dealing with severe autism. Mom said he was prone to fits where he would kick his legs and flail his arms. I told her that because of the younger children that could get hurt by his flailing arms and legs I didn't think it would be safe. That said, I have a child who goes to special needs preschool because of behavior and speech problems ( also not potty trained) and I am not paid more for him by the state. I do not believe potty training and speech delays necessarily make him disabled so he does not qualify.

Being a thread or potential threat to the safety of other childrenin care is the ONLY reason we can deny enrollment in regards to the disability.

Also, I think the rules are different in homes compared to centers. Centers, as far as I know, are required to do more you meet the special needs of a child.

ADA rules/laws apply to ALL types of care centers with the exception of religious entities. Family child care homes and centers have the exact same rules.

Pretty much you can't say "I won't take Johnny because of his autism" but you can say "I can't take Johnny because I am not equipt to handle his needs". The same way some do not accept children who are not potty trained because we don't change diapers or others do not accept school aged children because of their size/energy...we don't have to if the child needs more than we can provide. In my experience parents who have a child who live with different needs understand that a home provider would probably struggle.

Again, not being equipt to manage their care needs is not an excuseable reason to deny enrollment. It is NOT the same as denying a child due to being toilet trained or not.

Not beig equipt to manage their disability makes it about the disability.

Not accepting children in diapers makes it about something completely different.


Hope that makes sense. I posted a couple links in one of the first posts I made that explains the differences nicely as well as the laws/rules about child care homes/centers.

The rep at the ADA I spoke with told me a vast majority of providers believe things that are contradictive to the laws/rules and because even more parents don't know the laws/rules they accpet rather than find out or do something different.

[nanglgrl]

Blackcat, I'm sure you are correct on what the ADA told you but we were also told in our class that they fight for people with disabilities do basically they will tell you things with a "jaded" view. As a home I'm not required to have handicapped parking, bars near my toilet, a wheelchair ramp or any other devices that aid persons with disabilities. Centers are required to have these things no matter if they have children enrolled that need these devices or not. They did not consider the cost and problems that arise from these devices a reasonable solution for a home provider. As for getting paid more by the state we have no option to do it the way you suggest and I would imagine that the well paid lawyers that manage things like this for the state have researched to make sure it is not breaking any laws. I could always be wrong though so in the future if you see Iowa being sued by the ADA I will eat my words.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I don't know if Canada is the same as the US with ADA laws and rules but according to the ADA you canNOT exclude a child just because you feel you are not trained or educated about the disability.

The ADA says, the provider must make reasonable modifications or reasonable efforts to their policies and practices to include children, parents, and guardians with disabilities in their programs unless doing so would be a fundamental alteration of their program. These modifications can include trainings about a specific disability and or physical modification to the environment or building.

In order to demonstrate “reasonable efforts,” childcare providers must attempt to access available resources outside of their programs. For example, resources to support the inclusion of a child with a disability may be provided by your state's Early Intervention System or by a local school district through its special education program. Many of these programs offer free training for child care programs.

So basically you MUST accept a child with special needs, even if you lack the training or knowledge about their disability. According to the ADA, it is our responsibilty to get the necessary training. If it does cost, we are to spread the cost over all families and not just to the family of the SN child.

The one exception I see repeated in the info from the ADA is you can exclude them IF they pose a direct threat to the safety of other children in care or if the level of care they require means putting the other kids in danger or having less supervision than they would need. But then the suggestion is to hire an assistant and defer that expense across the board to ALL families and if you used that as a reason, it still seems you have to prove it.

I think there are probably a dozen ways to not enroll a child with a disability but regardless of the reasons why, it just cannot be about the disability itself, like a previous poster said, it is probably all in the wording you use or reasons given to refuse enrollment .

I termed a child with Autism due to him attempting to physically assault the other children multiple times an hour. If I would have gone to the restroom, the other children would have been hurt.