Correct or Incorrect?

[Meyou]

My best friend texted me today to ask me a question about daycare. Her current provider has had the children in care for a short while. Recently, she told my friend that she is changing the contract and charging more. My friend's child has Downs Syndrome, but he's 4 years old. He also goes to school half days. The original contract was for pt care and a rate for a preschool/toddler.

The new contract the provider wants to go to charges my friend for ft care and for the 4yo at an infant (higher) rate. The provider's reasons are that the 4yo requires more care. He is not fully potty-trained and needs help with steps but other than that is not really different from any other 4yo. I told her not to sign the new contract. My friend wanted to know if the provider could charge more for a special needs child. Based on a post here, I think the consensus was no?

I told my friend never to sign a contract that she doesn't agree with and to look for someone else. Also, I said she should likely put in two weeks notice asap.

Ok, I'm probably going to be flamed for this but I think this child IS extra work and therefore an extra charge for the extra time, effort, energy and manpower is acceptable to me. It isn't about "special needs" it's about extra work compared to an average child of the same age.

He is not fully potty-trained and needs help with steps but other than that is not really different from any other 4yo.

A child that is 4.5 and has trouble with steps must have trouble with other physical activities, balance, stamina and self help skills. The toilet training could be difficulties from anything from dressing and undressing to bladder control to a lack of comprehension to put it all together. That is all much different from the average 4.5 year old who would be in school here.

I talked about this thread alot with my dh. His child is a teen with special needs and she attended a special daycare that was staffed to accommodate special needs children. She's in the public school system now with just some occasional help after surgeries. He said if they weren't lucky enough to have this program close by then he would have absolutely paid "extra" to a SAHM to take on the work and stress involved with a special needs child so that she could be in that environment.

Just my two cents, well dh's too. I wouldn't have posted about this if he hadn't encouraged me to. He said one of the hardest things about being a parent to a special needs child is accepting that they are a little different and that they are more work for the average person.

From DH, "Special needs parents adapt and survive but we need to always remember that everyone around us doesn't need to do that. We always need to be aware that our children are special and often need things or services that above and beyond what an average child would need and an average parent would even consider."

[MaritimeMummy]

If the childcare provider is providing services beyond those required by ADA, like hiring licensed medical personnel to conduct complicated medical procedures, it may charge the child’s family." [/I]

So just for clarification (for any wondering), if the child with Down's Syndrome required the child care provider in question to hire a trained professional like an Occupational Therapist or Early Interventionist, the provider could in that case charge extra. But without professional, hired help and simply helping the child up and down the stairs? No. That's quite a no-no. She should not sign, and quite frankly, if I were in her position I would bring this up with the provider. It worries me that she is trying to pull this. Whether she pleads ignorance in the rules or not, if it's brought up, she very well could either be embarrassed that she didn't know and never try it again with any client, or she'd know she was "caught" and realize it's not so easy to pull that on families, and not try it again...either way, it definitely needs to a addressed.

Whether she wants to put in her notice or remain with the provider, I guess, depends entirely on the provider's response once the topic is discussed.

[Kaddidle Care]

Instead, the provider must spread the cost across all families participating in the program.

Warning... personal vent/rant.
Thank you for opening my eyes. This explains a lot to me within my current town. We've gotten a reputation for outstanding care and service for children with disabilities and we are paying outrageous taxes because of it.

Parents of a classified, disabled child can place their child in any school they feel is best and the cost is paid by the Board of Ed - which ultimately is coming from the taxpayers.

For example: We have one child that lives in town attending a school that costs $80,000.00 per year and another attending a school that costs $100,000.00. These are not the only 2 children in district being sent out to special schools.

I wondered how it was deemed illegal for a Daycare to charge extra for children such as these when it was OK for these schools to do so.

So ultimately what I am gathering from this statement is that you can charge extra for a disabled child's care so long as it doesn't come directly from the disabled child's family. In this case it really does take a village to raise a child.

[SilverSabre25]

I swear we've gone back and forth over this a few times and come to different conclusions each time.

I think in this case it would depend 100% on the wording of the change. Is he being charged at an infant rate because of the down syndrome or does the contract state that potty-trained children are less? Is he being charged a full day because his schedule is such that she can't cover the rest of the hours or because while he's there he needs more work?

Regardless of her motives behind it, I think it's all in the wording. And I do get frustrated when parents of children that do need a LOT more work than a typical child of that age are wanting/expecting to pay a pittance for care--and one I spoke with actually said, indignantly, "But my child has special needs!" and expected me to take pity on them and charge less than half my usual rate. <---NOT saying that's what the OP's friend is doing, not at all, just sharing.

[Blackcat31]

I swear we've gone back and forth over this a few times and come to different conclusions each time.

I think in this case it would depend 100% on the wording of the change. Is he being charged at an infant rate because of the down syndrome or does the contract state that potty-trained children are less? Is he being charged a full day because his schedule is such that she can't cover the rest of the hours or because while he's there he needs more work?

Regardless of her motives behind it, I think it's all in the wording. And I do get frustrated when parents of children that do need a LOT more work than a typical child of that age are wanting/expecting to pay a pittance for care--and one I spoke with actually said, indignantly, "But my child has special needs!" and expected me to take pity on them and charge less than half my usual rate. <---NOT saying that's what the OP's friend is doing, not at all, just sharing.

You are 100% correct Silver....I hate not having a clue or being in the clouds about something like this so I called the ADA myself and spoke to an actual person. This is what I was told:

The provider MAY charge a higher rate for this child ONLY If she normally charges children who are not toilet trained a higher rate.

Her contract must say "children who are not toilet trained" and not simply state and age group such as 2 and under or preschool, infant or toddler. As soon as she groups kids into rate categories based on AGE it becomes illegal to charge a higher rate. The grouping and words must simply state "not toilet trained" or requiring bathroom assistance.

The provider can NOT charge the child a higher rate simply because of a disability. If the provider hires an assistant or a necessary para-professional for the child, she may be able to charge a higher rate but generally this cost must be spread across ALL families.

The provider can NEVER charge the special needs child more than anyone else pays at ANY time for ANY reason.

The ADA representative I spoke to said that private family child cares may never charge a special needs child more based on disability ONLY on required amounts of care and ONLY if there are others who fall into the same category such as "requiring toileting assistance". She said alot of it depends on the wording of the contract.

Rates can NEVER be based on the disability. This applies to private family child cares and centers.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

[Country Kids]

So I'm going to go a little further into questioning. Can you not accept a child into you program because of having a disiability? I think we should be able to but with the disiability act would it make us have to accept the child.

Know this is what I don't get. A friend of mine is a teacher in one of our schools here. Her assistant in the classroom get paid like $4.00 everytime she has to help a child who needs changed or helps in the bathroom. My friend doesn't get anymore money to do it but the assistants do. The kids are kindergarteners. So I'm wondering why the schools would pay someone more to do this but a childcare provider can't.

[Crazy8]

So I'm going to go a little further into questioning. Can you not accept a child into you program because of having a disiability? I think we should be able to but with the disiability act would it make us have to accept the child.
.

I feel as a home provider I can turn away any child I feel is not a good fit for my daycare. We've all said that hundreds of times when talking about interviews, right?? I think again, the key is not to say it is the disability itself - but the fact that you feel you would not be able to provide adequate care to ALL in your group is a legitimate reason.

[momofsix]

That's very strange because don't most states have a "special needs" rate for state pay? How can that be ok, yet not when it's private pay?

[daycarediva]

Ok, I'm probably going to be flamed for this but I think this child IS extra work and therefore an extra charge for the extra time, effort, energy and manpower is acceptable to me. It isn't about "special needs" it's about extra work compared to an average child of the same age.



A child that is 4.5 and has trouble with steps must have trouble with other physical activities, balance, stamina and self help skills. The toilet training could be difficulties from anything from dressing and undressing to bladder control to a lack of comprehension to put it all together. That is all much different from the average 4.5 year old who would be in school here.

I talked about this thread alot with my dh. His child is a teen with special needs and she attended a special daycare that was staffed to accommodate special needs children. She's in the public school system now with just some occasional help after surgeries. He said if they weren't lucky enough to have this program close by then he would have absolutely paid "extra" to a SAHM to take on the work and stress involved with a special needs child so that she could be in that environment.

Just my two cents, well dh's too. I wouldn't have posted about this if he hadn't encouraged me to. He said one of the hardest things about being a parent to a special needs child is accepting that they are a little different and that they are more work for the average person.

From DH, "Special needs parents adapt and survive but we need to always remember that everyone around us doesn't need to do that. We always need to be aware that our children are special and often need things or services that above and beyond what an average child would need and an average parent would even consider."

My son has special needs and I completely agree with your dh, this entire post in fact. Because I have a son with special needs, I absolutely would not take on another special needs child because I cannot meet all of their needs. I think parents need to accept that when you have a child with a disability it is going to be harder to do EVERYTHING, and it is going to cost more. It's not PC, but it's the truth.

To the other poster paying ridiculously high taxes because of special needs kids- from a Mom of a kid receiving services---THANK YOU! We really DO appreciate it! Our school started a special program so that they wouldn't have to bus kids and pay more, it's absolutely amazing and is just about double what a regular ed kid costs BUT that includes a 6:1 ratio classroom, all of the services and therapies individual kids need, and a FREE before and after school program for the kids whose parents work FT. It's the MAIN REASON we changed districts. Also, most people aren't aware of this, but the school bills our private insurance for therapies, and only provide through school funding what our insurance doesn't cover and that he NEEDS. So my copays & deductibles apply. It isn't a free ride (and we don't call him the million dollar baby for nothin!!!!!!!!)

[DCBlessings27]

My friend didn't get the impression that the provider was charging more due to her ds requiring more work. She feels that the provider only saw a way to get more money. Yes, my friend knows that her child costs more than her other child without special needs. She's very aware of this.

Thanks BlackCat for calling an ADA representative to get a solid answer. My friend has already found someone else to watch the kids. I just am glad to have an answer to the special needs/charging more issue.

My state (for state pay) does NOT pay more for a child with special needs as far as I'm aware. We don't even get more for infants; it's one flat rate per hour for all children.

[Blackcat31]

So I'm going to go a little further into questioning. Can you not accept a child into you program because of having a disiability? I think we should be able to but with the disiability act would it make us have to accept the child.

You canNOT refuse to enroll a child because of a disability. You more or less HAVE to accept them unless there is another reason for not accepting the child into care such as needing different hours or days than you offer. Refusing the child cannot be about the disability.

Know this is what I don't get. A friend of mine is a teacher in one of our schools here. Her assistant in the classroom get paid like $4.00 everytime she has to help a child who needs changed or helps in the bathroom. My friend doesn't get anymore money to do it but the assistants do. The kids are kindergarteners. So I'm wondering why the schools would pay someone more to do this but a childcare provider can't.

The school isn't paying this, the tax payers are. The cost is being spread across the board to all attending families, which makes it perfectly legally.

I answered in bold above.

I feel as a home provider I can turn away any child I feel is not a good fit for my daycare. We've all said that hundreds of times when talking about interviews, right?? I think again, the key is not to say it is the disability itself - but the fact that you feel you would not be able to provide adequate care to ALL in your group is a legitimate reason.

Yes, you have it exactly right. You can NOT deny based on disability but you can deny for boat loads of other reasons.

[Blackcat31]

That's very strange because don't most states have a "special needs" rate for state pay? How can that be ok, yet not when it's private pay?

I looked up my state's rules about this and this is what I found:

3400.0130 CHILD CARE PROVIDER RATES:

Subp. 3a. Rate determination; children with special needs due to disability.

When a parent or a provider asks the county for a special needs rate for an individual child with disabilities that exceeds the applicable maximum rate, the county must use the following process to determine whether a special needs rate is necessary and, if so, to establish the requested special needs rate.

The county must:

A. obtain documentary evidence of the child's disability;

B. obtain the following documentation from the child care provider:

(1) a description of the specialized training, services, or environmental adaptations that the provider will furnish to meet the individual needs of the child;

(2) the provider's assurance of compliance with applicable provisions of the Americans with Disabilities Act;

(3) the provider's assurance that the rate being sought is the same as the rate that would be charged for similar services provided to a child with a disability in a family not receiving child care assistance; and

(4) a statement from the provider explaining that the rate the provider charges for all children in care should be adopted as the special needs rate for the child with disabilities because the provider has chosen to spread the cost of caring for children with special needs across all families in care; and

C. seek the commissioner's approval of the special needs rate as provided in subpart 3.

Which to me says that the provider can spread the rate increase over EVERY family in care and can get the higher rate for special needs if it involves specialized training, services, or environmental adaptations to accommodate the child. All of which is the same as what the ADA says.

If the state is giving out the higher rate without really doing their research, then they are doing it wrong (LOL!!) ....at least that is what my licensor said when I asked her about this. She is also the one who pointed me in the direction of where to find our state statutes. She also said a majority of providers apply for the higher rates but don't get approved because they aren't understanding the restrictions or requirements.

Just to be sure how your state works, I would check your licensing rules and statues.

[Blackcat31]

My friend didn't get the impression that the provider was charging more due to her ds requiring more work. She feels that the provider only saw a way to get more money. Yes, my friend knows that her child costs more than her other child without special needs. She's very aware of this.

Thanks BlackCat for calling an ADA representative to get a solid answer. My friend has already found someone else to watch the kids. I just am glad to have an answer to the special needs/charging more issue.

My state (for state pay) does NOT pay more for a child with special needs as far as I'm aware. We don't even get more for infants; it's one flat rate per hour for all children.

You're welcome! Hopefully we all know now. I think this is something we all need to know and be aware of since special needs children are being mainstreamed so much earlier and earlier now days as well as so many new disabilities coming to light too so I think this is a great topic to learn about.

I know when I went to school, all the kids with special needs of any kind were kept separate and never mainstreamed into regular classrooms and I think that is sad but I suppose people just didn't know any better then.

[Country Kids]

I just looked up my state rates for special needs. They pay the same amount as they would for an infant. This was for all three types of childcare in my state.

[MaritimeMummy]

I don[t see how it is illegal to turn away a child based on a disability...like me personally, I am not equipped to deal with nor am I trained to handle a disabled child. I would be underqualified and would likely be dangerous for me to care for them. If I accepted a child that is special needs, the parents likely assume I have special needs training and education. If something comes back and I harm this child inadvertently, then what? What woudl have been better for that family, me being upfront and saying, "No, sorry, I am not properly trained or equipped to care for your child" or accepting the child and eventually coming back and saying, "I'm sorry I've injured your child"?:confused: