Space Held 2 Months, Changes Mind, Wants Refund? No!

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  • DaisyMamma
    Advanced Daycare.com Member
    • May 2011
    • 2241

    Space Held 2 Months, Changes Mind, Wants Refund? No!

    Hi ladies/gents(?)
    Please reply to me, I need some support and any advice. I'm sorry it is long, please read. I really appreciate it.

    I took on a child over the telephone (never again!) for a family planning to visit my area for the summer. I was told it would be for 1-2 months temporary, but full time. This was in April or May.

    I emailed her my paperwork and she sent in the enrollment form only (didn't sign policies ut oh yes a red flag, why didn't I pick up on it) and her 2 week deposit.

    Months later... her first day she shows up with no other paperwork, tells me the child will not come as much as we discussed and - in not so many words - that she wanted her $ back and didn't really want the child to come at all. Her reasoning was completely understandable (sick family member, long story), HOWEVER, I do not refund deposits and I turned away 2 or 3 families because I was expecting this child. So, That's that, I lost out on 2-6 weeks of income ALREADY and she wanted a refund?? No way was I going to do that. I told her that the best I can do is that she can use the 9 days as she sees fit through the next month and that I do not refund deposits. I told her about the other families I turned away and kindly made it clear that I'm losing a lot of income because of this.

    My policies state:
    "There will be a nonrefundable deposit equal to 2 weeks of care due upon enrollment of your child, 3 weeks for multiple children. This deposit may be paid in full, or financial arrangements may be made. This deposit is to serve as the final week’s payment. Two-week’s notice is required if the child is to be permanently withdrawn from daycare, three weeks for multiple children. Failure to give written notice will cause loss of deposit."

    Problem#1 The child attended for 4 partial days. She hasn't been here for 3 days now, but the mom showed up today while my sub was here to get her things, told my sub it isn't working out here and she will be in touch with me. She then is asking my sub about the # of kids here and says - oh, well if my kid came you would have been out of ratio. Then walks over to my parent board and studies my license info. Truth is that this particular mom texted my sub and said her kid wasn't coming today so my sub decided to bring her own kids! I never go out of ratio, ever.

    Problem#2 Because of the above obvious concern I called DCM to try to diffuse the situation and if ratio info came up mention info above. She didn't answer, I left a message. ...sorry it didn't work out, I wish you and your family the best, yada yada yada, 3pm today.
    6pm I get an email "I got your message today and feel that we need to talk about refunding some of the money I paid you for child's day care. Please respond to my email address."

    I have not responded. My thoughts are to reply maybe tomorrow late afternoon and state the facts: I held the spot 2 months, turned other families away and do not give refunds, and quote the paragraph above from my policies and then ignore any further calls and emails, as she is clearly looking for a fight.

    Clearly I made mistakes here, I let her kid come those four days without other paperwork and never made her sign the policies. Lesson learned - and no need to admit my mistakes to DCM, BUT, now what?

    What would you do? Thanks guys!!
  • EntropyControlSpecialist
    Embracing the chaos.
    • Mar 2012
    • 7466

    #2
    I would do exactly as you said you planned to do.

    Comment

    • Lucy
      Daycare.com Member
      • Jan 2010
      • 1654

      #3
      She is looking for a fight, as you said. Don't give it to her. Your key word is NON-REFUNDABLE. Don't let emotion or ego into it, just state the facts. Don't go into details about things you "think" or "feel", just keep it professional and state the facts. Copy the form she signed regarding the non-refundable fee, highlight that part, thank her for her business, and wish her well. Keep it as simple as possible. Do NOT give her the fight. And keep us posted!!!

      Comment

      • DaisyMamma
        Advanced Daycare.com Member
        • May 2011
        • 2241

        #4
        Originally posted by EntropyControlSpe******t
        I would do exactly as you said you planned to do.
        Thank you for your quick response.

        I have drafted the email, which again, I will not rush to send, as it will show my stress of the situation.
        Dear DCM,
        As we discussed, deposits are non-refundable. They serve as the final two weeks that your child is in care or are forfeited if 2 weeks notice is not given.

        Please review the ***X Daycare policies that clearly state this: "There will be a nonrefundable deposit equal to 2 weeks of care due upon enrollment of your child, 3 weeks for multiple children. This deposit may be paid in full, or financial arrangements may be made. This deposit is to serve as the final week’s payment. Two-week’s notice is required if the child is to be permanently withdrawn from daycare, three weeks for multiple children. Failure to give written notice will cause loss of deposit."

        Good luck and thank you for your understanding,
        There is no need to discuss it any further.
        Provider

        Comment

        • DaisyMamma
          Advanced Daycare.com Member
          • May 2011
          • 2241

          #5
          Originally posted by Lucy
          She is looking for a fight, as you said. Don't give it to her. Your key word is NON-REFUNDABLE. Don't let emotion or ego into it, just state the facts. Don't go into details about things you "think" or "feel", just keep it professional and state the facts. Copy the form she signed regarding the non-refundable fee, highlight that part, thank her for her business, and wish her well. Keep it as simple as possible. Do NOT give her the fight. And keep us posted!!!
          She did not sign it.

          Comment

          • Lucy
            Daycare.com Member
            • Jan 2010
            • 1654

            #6
            Originally posted by DaisyMamma
            Thank you for your quick response.

            I have drafted the email, which again, I will not rush to send, as it will show my stress of the situation.
            Dear DCM,
            As we discussed, deposits are non-refundable. They serve as the final two weeks that your child is in care or are forfeited if 2 weeks notice is not given.

            Please review the ***X Daycare policies that clearly state this: "There will be a nonrefundable deposit equal to 2 weeks of care due upon enrollment of your child, 3 weeks for multiple children. This deposit may be paid in full, or financial arrangements may be made. This deposit is to serve as the final week’s payment. Two-week’s notice is required if the child is to be permanently withdrawn from daycare, three weeks for multiple children. Failure to give written notice will cause loss of deposit."

            Good luck and thank you for your understanding,
            There is no need to discuss it any further.
            Provider
            I would leave it at:

            "As we discussed, deposits are non-refundable. They serve as the final two weeks that your child is in care or are forfeited if 2 weeks notice is not given."


            And then add:

            "I have enjoyed your daughter and will be sorry to see her go. Best of luck to you."

            I think the part about "there is no need to discuss it further" might just tick her off a little bit. Obviously it's your call, but I say simple and to the point. No fluff or extra explanation. That leaves it open for discussion. It's like with kids... when they ask if they can stay up and watch tv, you just say "NO", you don't say, "I really don't want you to because you will be too tired in the morning and it will be hard to get you out of bed." That leaves it up to debate with the child.... "I promise I will get RIGHT out of bed!!" When you simply say "NO", there's nothing to counter or defend against. Just my take on it. Your mileage may vary!

            Comment

            • Truly Scrumptious
              Daycare.com Member
              • Jun 2012
              • 211

              #7
              I think I would get some legal advice...I had a provider friend one time that had trouble with a mom that received help from the state for child care...the mom had agreed (and signed a seperate contract) to pay her anything the state didn't pay. Well she got upset with the provider about something or other, and pulled her child out. She wanted the next check that was due from the state to be given to her...(it's confusing but all the paperwork and reinbursements are 2-4 weeks behind, so mom was having to pay for care until reinbursements started).
              Provider told her that was fine, but that she would be deducting for the 2 weeks notice and then she would write her a check for the remainder. Mom was not happy ....Mom called the state and tried to cause trouble. My friend called and talked with Tom Copeland and explained the situation and about the agreement dcm signed (she was nervous about doing the right thing)....he told her that she had every legal right to keep the 2 weeks notice and give dcm the remainder of the state money.

              I would talk to Tom about it and get his advice. She does have to pay for the days her child was in care...but because you have no written agreement...I don't think you can keep the rest.

              I would also contact licensing (if you are licensed) and tell them what happened and explain about the ratios, just in case she calls and tries to start trouble.

              Don't ever let any parent have that kind of power over you and dictate how things are going to be in your business.....
              Last edited by Truly Scrumptious; 07-17-2012, 07:26 PM. Reason: spelling error

              Comment

              • DaisyMamma
                Advanced Daycare.com Member
                • May 2011
                • 2241

                #8
                Originally posted by Lucy
                I would leave it at:

                "As we discussed, deposits are non-refundable. They serve as the final two weeks that your child is in care or are forfeited if 2 weeks notice is not given."


                And then add:

                "I have enjoyed your daughter and will be sorry to see her go. Best of luck to you."

                I think the part about "there is no need to discuss it further" might just tick her off a little bit. Obviously it's your call, but I say simple and to the point. No fluff or extra explanation. That leaves it open for discussion. It's like with kids... when they ask if they can stay up and watch tv, you just say "NO", you don't say, "I really don't want you to because you will be too tired in the morning and it will be hard to get you out of bed." That leaves it up to debate with the child.... "I promise I will get RIGHT out of bed!!" When you simply say "NO", there's nothing to counter or defend against. Just my take on it. Your mileage may vary!
                Thank you, you are correct.

                Comment

                • DaisyMamma
                  Advanced Daycare.com Member
                  • May 2011
                  • 2241

                  #9
                  The legal part was one of my concerns. I will see if I can get in touch with Tom. How much are his fees?
                  I also wonder how less than $200 is worth her aggervation, time and legal costs. To go to small claims you're looking at $250 minimum and she lives on the other side of the country. She is very rich and her family member is dying. I mean, really lady, get over it and take care of your family.
                  From my point of view: I was borrowing $ to make my mortgage payment because she flaked out on me. I do NOT have the $ to refund, period.
                  She is the type of person that causes me to have these policies.

                  Originally posted by Truly Scrumptious
                  I think I would get some legal advice...I had a provider friend one time that had trouble with a mom that received help from the state for child care...the mom had agreed (and signed a seperate contract) to pay her anything the state didn't pay. Well she got upset with the provider about something or other, and pulled her child out. She wanted the next check that was due from the state to be given to her...(it's confusing but all the paperwork and reinbursements are 2-4 weeks behind, so mom was having to pay for care until reinbursements started).
                  Provider told her that was fine, but that she would be deducting for the 2 weeks notice and then she would write her a check for the remainder. Mom was not happy ....Mom called the state and tried to cause trouble. My friend called and talked with Tom Copeland and explained the situation and about the agreement dcm signed (she was nervous about doing the right thing)....he told her that she had every legal right to keep the 2 weeks notice and give dcm the remainder of the state money.

                  I would talk to Tom about it and get his advice. She does have to pay for the days her child was in care...but because you have no written agreement...I don't think you can keep the rest.

                  I would also contact licensing (if you are licensed) and tell them what happened and explain about the ratios, just in case she calls and tries to start trouble.

                  Don't ever let any parent have that kind of power over you and dictate how things are going to be in your business.....

                  Comment

                  • cheerfuldom
                    Advanced Daycare.com Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 7413

                    #10
                    If she didnt sign any paperwork, you made a huge mistake and cannot hold her accountable for the "non refundable" because at this point, it is her word against yours. I would keep whatever is owed, if anything, from the four days that care was given and send her the refund with a short "exit" letter by certified mail. She didnt sign anything, that was your mistake.

                    Plus this girl should not have been allowed to come when the sub knew that would put you over ratio. There needs to be a discussion about that little incident between you and the sub.

                    Comment

                    • Truly Scrumptious
                      Daycare.com Member
                      • Jun 2012
                      • 211

                      #11
                      He will talk to you on the phone for free...just explain the situation or maybe just send your original post to him.

                      I don't know if she would go to the trouble of taking you to court...I just don't want her trying to cause trouble for you. Even if she makes false accusations, they will still investigate...they have to.

                      It happens to providers here all the time. A parent gets mad because they didn't get their way and even if there's NO money involved...they cause trouble. Most of the time it's unfounded and nothing happens...but it does go into the file of the provider. But, sometimes depending on the severity of the claim, day cares have been shut down until everything has been resolved.

                      I'm not trying to scare you, just want you to protect yourself.

                      Comment

                      • DaisyMamma
                        Advanced Daycare.com Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 2241

                        #12
                        Originally posted by cheerfuldom
                        Plus this girl should not have been allowed to come when the sub knew that would put you over ratio. There needs to be a discussion about that little incident between you and the sub.
                        As stated, DCM texted sub before daycare started and said DCG not coming. At that time sub decided to bring her kids. I DO NOT ever go over ratio. DCM showed up later ONLY to pickup DCGs things.

                        I just wanted to add that I truly believe that the ratio comment she made was meant to plant a seed to scare me and manipulate me into giving into her planned future request for a refund. In other words it was a subtle threat that she knew I would hear about. What she didn't know was that my subs kids werent going to come if her kid did.

                        Comment

                        • DaisyMamma
                          Advanced Daycare.com Member
                          • May 2011
                          • 2241

                          #13
                          It is one of my main concerns, that she would cause trouble with the state. It is certainly something I am considering carefully. Bottom line is that I have nothing to hide and did nothing wrong. More importantly I don't have 2 pennies to rub together and if I did I would pay my electric bill. LOL

                          Originally posted by Truly Scrumptious
                          He will talk to you on the phone for free...just explain the situation or maybe just send your original post to him.

                          I don't know if she would go to the trouble of taking you to court...I just don't want her trying to cause trouble for you. Even if she makes false accusations, they will still investigate...they have to.

                          It happens to providers here all the time. A parent gets mad because they didn't get their way and even if there's NO money involved...they cause trouble. Most of the time it's unfounded and nothing happens...but it does go into the file of the provider. But, sometimes depending on the severity of the claim, day cares have been shut down until everything has been resolved.

                          I'm not trying to scare you, just want you to protect yourself.

                          Comment

                          • Truly Scrumptious
                            Daycare.com Member
                            • Jun 2012
                            • 211

                            #14
                            Originally posted by DaisyMamma
                            It is one of my main concerns, that she would cause trouble with the state. It is certainly something I am considering carefully. Bottom line is that I have nothing to hide and did nothing wrong. More importantly I don't have 2 pennies to rub together and if I did I would pay my electric bill. LOL
                            I don't blame you...under your rules...she shouldn't get her money back, but she didn't sign and she knows she didn't sign and she's already "kind of" made a threat...(when she questioned your ratios and was scoping out your licensing info).
                            And it may be just that...a passive threat, to scare you into giving her money back...

                            Comment

                            • MyAngels
                              Member
                              • Aug 2010
                              • 4217

                              #15
                              Just because she didn't physically sign a contract, doesn't mean that there is no contract. She paid you, and based on your usual and customary businesss practices, this would suffice as a verbal contract - basically coming down to a he-said-she-said type of thing.

                              She probably thinks she can intimidate you into refunding the deposit, which is why she made a big show of examining your license, etc.

                              I'd send the kiss-off e-mail as you've outlined above, contact your licensing agency to make them aware of a potential problem, and leave it at that. There's a better than average chance she won't do anything at all.

                              Comment

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