Same Mom, Do You Find this Rude??

[nannyde]

.it just never fails that when I post that Nannyde takes every opportunity to start something with me....hence my aggravation in my first post. Unfortunately I don't have anything in writing.....but I am going to attempt to get an email addy and see if I can get some clarification from the fire marshall.

You are the Master Teacher. You are the one with so much experience. You are the one who Mentors.

Why on earth would you believe that I'm "starting" something with you when I'm asking you a concrete question about the licensing and regulations you are abiding by in your State that YOU brought up? You would think you have fielded litterally THOUSANDS of these kinds of questions in your work as teacher, evaluator, and mentor.

You back up your positions with your education and experience. A simple California code question is aggrivating? What?

[MarinaVanessa]

Why on earth would you believe that I'm "starting" something with you when I'm asking you a concrete question about the licensing and regulations you are abiding by in your State that YOU brought up?

Not taking sides here but I'm just going out on a limb here by saying that it's probably because of past posts and also because the subject about how licensing regulations (in CA at least) can vary from county to county and are open to interpretation by local licensing agencies in that particular area have already been discussed. Just a reminder that just because they aren't posted or printed in CA the local agency office interprets them the way they want and we have to follow it. If we get cited we can fight it but licensing is the judge, juror and executioner so you can take a guess as to who would win .

Take me as an example, I'm a small DC (6 max) and I can have my doors locked if I wanted to. But I know another provider in another area that is managed by a different licensing office that can't have her doors locked because in the case of an evacuation she and the kids need to get out quickly and she's a small DC also. She got around it by installing doorknobs on her front door that automatically lock on the outside but stay unlocked on the inside. None of it is printed apparently but that's what licensing in her area says.

Back to the original topic:
It bother's me also when people don't at least knock before coming in so I also have my front door locked in the morning. If you are allowed to do that then I would deffinetely do it. I guess not knocking before entering to me is a lot like a guest opening my fridge without asking to get something to drink. It's not like i'm going to say no, I just like the common courtesy.

As for the car running thing, I would deffinetely have that new policy. I also have one that says that at no time will a car be left running without an adult in the car to supervise it. Anything can happen, you just never know. I even have one that's more specific that says that a parent must walk out with their child and be in complete control. If the child is running around all over my front yard while the parent is wildly chasing after them I'd be peeved.

[Crystal]

You are the Master Teacher. You are the one with so much experience. You are the one who Mentors.

Why on earth would you believe that I'm "starting" something with you when I'm asking you a concrete question about the licensing and regulations you are abiding by in your State that YOU brought up? You would think you have fielded litterally THOUSANDS of these kinds of questions in your work as teacher, evaluator, and mentor.

You back up your positions with your education and experience. A simple California code question is aggrivating? What?

I do not mind the question, and I do not mind answering it - when it comes from someone who genuinely wants to know, or needs to know.....but I do have an issue with it when it comes from a person who challenges nearly everything I say.

I found the "ignore" button, and have decided to use it.

[Crystal]

Not taking sides here but I'm just going out on a limb here by saying that it's probably because of past posts and also because the subject about how licensing regulations (in CA at least) can vary from county to county and are open to interpretation by local licensing agencies in that particular area have already been discussed. Just a reminder that just because they aren't posted or printed in CA the local agency office interprets them the way they want and we have to follow it. If we get cited we can fight it but licensing is the judge, juror and executioner so you can take a guess as to who would win .

Take me as an example, I'm a small DC (6 max) and I can have my doors locked if I wanted to. But I know another provider in another area that is managed by a different licensing office that can't have her doors locked because in the case of an evacuation she and the kids need to get out quickly and she's a small DC also. She got around it by installing doorknobs on her front door that automatically lock on the outside but stay unlocked on the inside. None of it is printed apparently but that's what licensing in her area says.
.

Thank you. You are EXACTLY right.

[misol]

I even have one that's more specific that says that a parent must walk out with their child and be in complete control. If the child is running around all over my front yard while the parent is wildly chasing after them I'd be peeved.

How do you/would you enforce this?

This happens every single day at pickup with my one dcb. Rain or shine his mom has to chase him through my yard or up and down the sidewalk. She begs and pleads with him not to make her chase him. 9 times out of 10 she gives up and just gets in the car, starts the ignition, and pretends that she's about to leave him. That usuallly makes him come running. Today he ran through my garden and stepped on my tomato plants. I was furious!
No clue why she just doesn't take dcb out first by the hand, strap him in the carseat, and then come back to get the baby. I guess that would be too easy.

[nannyde]

I do not mind the question, and I do not mind answering it - when it comes from someone who genuinely wants to know, or needs to know.....but I do have an issue with it when it comes from a person who challenges nearly everything I say.

I found the "ignore" button, and have decided to use it.

I'm "challenging" you because I haven't heard of any State requiring providers to physcially keep their doors unlocked. I have heard many unique State requirements over the years and I'm ALWAYS interested in ones that specfically put us at risk for the "greater good". I'm also interested in Codes that speak to the safety of the children but in reality have a unintended consequence of trampling on the individual providers personal/famlial obligations.

Requiring doors to be left unlocked for the extremely rare probability of a fire seems drastic compared to the real possibility that a child could get out or someone will ill intent should get in. Also, the privacy of the family as a whole is comprimised for the sake of a highly unlikly event such as a fire.

This is "my" educated and experienced concern over these types of regulations. You stated they exist and I'm asking you specifically what part of your Code speaks to this. If your State requires you to have a county or city fire inspection for your license than the next obvious question is.... what is your States fire code and where in their Code do they require home providers with a large group license to physically keep their doors unlocked? Has this been given to you in writing or just verbally from your inspector? To your knowledge has this requirement been brought to your State Licensing Agency?

When my State attempts to implement these kinds of regulations we look to other States for guidance on how to work with the DHS to make the regs workable. We recently did this for regs for overnight care. Our DHS decided they would require an adult to be up watching the kids any time there were kids in the house. This would have dramatically changed the face of overnight care here and would have been extremely costly. I worked with the Union to study the regulations from other States and the Union was able to lobby the DHS to reconsider based on other States managing of this issue. The Union was able to secure regulations that did not require an adult to be up when children were sleeping.

It IS important to know what other States require, who administers the requirements, and if there have been unintended consequences affecting the livlihood of the provider.

[Former Teacher]

[QUOTE=MarinaVanessa;32995]Take me as an example, I'm a small DC (6 max) and I can have my doors locked if I wanted to. But I know another provider in another area that is managed by a different licensing office that can't have her doors locked because in the case of an evacuation she and the kids need to get out quickly and she's a small DC also. She got around it by installing doorknobs on her front door that automatically lock on the outside but stay unlocked on the inside. None of it is printed apparently but that's what licensing in her area says.QUOTE]

So VERY true! We had one rep for years (the gem that I have spoken about) and we had to do things HER way. She got transferred and another fool came and told us we had to do ANOTHER way. Then yet another fool came along and didn't really do his job. He just wanted to come in, do head counts, and leave. Then we got another fool who wanted it done HER way. AND THEN we got fool 1 back who was FURIOUS because we changed things.

Long story short by the time we got the gem of a rep back, it was time for the rep to retire and I had already put in my 2 weeks notice ::

[fctjc1979]

I'm "challenging" you because I haven't heard of any State requiring providers to physcially keep their doors unlocked. I have heard many unique State requirements over the years and I'm ALWAYS interested in ones that specfically put us at risk for the "greater good". I'm also interested in Codes that speak to the safety of the children but in reality have a unintended consequence of trampling on the individual providers personal/famlial obligations.

Requiring doors to be left unlocked for the extremely rare probability of a fire seems drastic compared to the real possibility that a child could get out or someone will ill intent should get in. Also, the privacy of the family as a whole is comprimised for the sake of a highly unlikly event such as a fire.

This is "my" educated and experienced concern over these types of regulations. You stated they exist and I'm asking you specifically what part of your Code speaks to this. If your State requires you to have a county or city fire inspection for your license than the next obvious question is.... what is your States fire code and where in their Code do they require home providers with a large group license to physically keep their doors unlocked? Has this been given to you in writing or just verbally from your inspector? To your knowledge has this requirement been brought to your State Licensing Agency?

When my State attempts to implement these kinds of regulations we look to other States for guidance on how to work with the DHS to make the regs workable. We recently did this for regs for overnight care. Our DHS decided they would require an adult to be up watching the kids any time there were kids in the house. This would have dramatically changed the face of overnight care here and would have been extremely costly. I worked with the Union to study the regulations from other States and the Union was able to lobby the DHS to reconsider based on other States managing of this issue. The Union was able to secure regulations that did not require an adult to be up when children were sleeping.

It IS important to know what other States require, who administers the requirements, and if there have been unintended consequences affecting the livlihood of the provider.

It does seem to me that there should be much more concern for the very real possibility of a someone other than a parent just walking in or a kid walking out if the doors are unlocked than the unlikely (though still possible) event of a housefire if the doors are locked. But then, I'm highly security conscious and can get paranoid unless I know the door is locked. I'm biased on this because my husband is often gone weeks at a time because of military service and I get nervous about there being no man in the house - not so much during the day, but at night. I'm a chronic lock checker - again not so much during the day, but at night.

[momofboys]

To be honest if I was the parent & had my child in someone else's home for care I would think safety from the outside world to me would trump my desire to have instant access to my kids. After all if I picked this person to care for my child/ren & I obvioulsy have a high amount of trust in them that they will be caring for my child properly. I would rather them lock the doors but that is my opinion. I know when I used to WOH when my kids were much younger the HDCP that we used did not lock her doors during the day, she did have them locked in the morning. I didn't really like it b/c many times when I picked up I just walked into the home & the mom never seemed to be aware that I was there. I could go in the playroom & get my child before she even saw me. I always thought if it was that easy for me to do it, anyone could just wander in & do what they want.

[Vesta]

I'm too much of a control freak to leave my door unlocked.
If someone wants in my house, I will let them in.
It's unfortunate in more ways than one, but the neighborhood I live next to is declining rapidly. Too many people walking around during the middle of the day.... it would be pretty a pretty ballsy thing to go into someone's house during the middle of the day, but meth is a terrible drug.

If parents are upset or suspicious about what is happening during the 10 to 15 seconds it takes me to get to the door, they shouldn't be leaving their child with me for the other 10 hours of the day.

Besides, I need a chance to let them out of the cage and peel the duct tape of the kid's mouth before their parents catch me in all my misdeeds.

[Daycare Mommy]

I'm too much of a control freak to leave my door unlocked.
If someone wants in my house, I will let them in.
It's unfortunate in more ways than one, but the neighborhood I live next to is declining rapidly. Too many people walking around during the middle of the day.... it would be pretty a pretty ballsy thing to go into someone's house during the middle of the day, but meth is a terrible drug.

If parents are upset or suspicious about what is happening during the 10 to 15 seconds it takes me to get to the door, they shouldn't be leaving their child with me for the other 10 hours of the day.

Besides, I need a chance to let them out of the cage and peel the duct tape of the kid's mouth before their parents catch me in all my misdeeds.

ITA! I live in a nice neighborhood, but I don't let that give me a false sense of security. Criminals don't only commit crimes on their own street or even in their own town, city, or state for that matter. There was a home invasion in an even nicer neighborhood than mine just up the street from me not 6 months ago. Middle of the day, mom and kids in the house. Sure if someone really wants in they'll bust the door in, but at least then I'm cutting out the wandering drunks and druggies, or people looking for an easy quiet robbery by just walking into a house with unlocked doors. Even for the people that force their way in I may have a few seconds as they are having to break in, to run out the back with the kids. My doors are and will always be locked for safety!

[MarinaVanessa]

How do you/would you enforce this?

Honestly, if a parent has this little control of their child I usually do the akward silence and stare thing. It comes naturally to me I suppose because I tend to do it alot. I guess I'm one of those people that can't hide my emotions well and it's a huge shock to me when a parent doesn't have complete control. I mean I know it happens but it shouldn't happen everyday. I stand at my doorstep and just openly gawk and the whole ordeal with a face that shows that I'm not amused. The parent will usually see me standing there staring at their inability to take control and try harder (usually because of embarrassment). That's when they start raising their voices and get angry and become firm.

If they don't I let it continue a few moments and then just step in (especially if they were strampling all over my plants!! ). I've never had a child run from me (knock on wood) and they usually will immediately stop at the sound of my voice. I just walk over to them and talk to them in a firm voice (don't acknowledge the parent at all) and tell them that they are still at my house and that this behavior is unacceptible and dangerous. I will literally tell them that their parent may allow this kind of behavior in their home but it is not allowed in mine and they'll have to wait until they get home to do it. This may make parents a little angry or even more embarrassed but really... who is allowing the behavior? The parent. Sometimes they just need a little push. I find that after making a comment like that in front of the parent they tend to be more strict and firm.

Then if the behavior continues still I just give the parent a written note and discuss with them that they will from then on need to hold their child's hand or pick their child up and carry them (even if they're six) to and from their cars at drop-off and pick-up. I love it when it gets to this point and they have someone else pick their kid up and I have to explain the process to that person. They give me a wierd look but will still do it and I could only imagine the chagrin of the parent having to explain the why of it all to their relative or friend .

[mamamissy23]

In the county in FL where I live and all the surrounding counties all daycares home or centers must have locked doors. Most of the centers around have doors with codes on them, some u have to ring a doorbell or knock. But I would never put my child somewhere where the door remains unlocked throughout the day. No way. Anyone could come in and do harm. Its just one thing that I dont have to worry about during the day with the kids.

[misol]

Honestly, if a parent has this little control of their child I usually do the akward silence and stare thing. It comes naturally to me I suppose because I tend to do it alot. I guess I'm one of those people that can't hide my emotions well and it's a huge shock to me when a parent doesn't have complete control. I mean I know it happens but it shouldn't happen everyday. I stand at my doorstep and just openly gawk and the whole ordeal with a face that shows that I'm not amused. The parent will usually see me standing there staring at their inability to take control and try harder (usually because of embarrassment). That's when they start raising their voices and get angry and become firm.

If they don't I let it continue a few moments and then just step in (especially if they were strampling all over my plants!! ). I've never had a child run from me (knock on wood) and they usually will immediately stop at the sound of my voice. I just walk over to them and talk to them in a firm voice (don't acknowledge the parent at all) and tell them that they are still at my house and that this behavior is unacceptible and dangerous. I will literally tell them that their parent may allow this kind of behavior in their home but it is not allowed in mine and they'll have to wait until they get home to do it. This may make parents a little angry or even more embarrassed but really... who is allowing the behavior? The parent. Sometimes they just need a little push. I find that after making a comment like that in front of the parent they tend to be more strict and firm.

Then if the behavior continues still I just give the parent a written note and discuss with them that they will from then on need to hold their child's hand or pick their child up and carry them (even if they're six) to and from their cars at drop-off and pick-up. I love it when it gets to this point and they have someone else pick their kid up and I have to explain the process to that person. They give me a wierd look but will still do it and I could only imagine the chagrin of the parent having to explain the why of it all to their relative or friend .

I'll try the silent stare thing and see how that goes. I did finally step in when he trampled my plants. I said "OK, that's enough dcb! You are stepping in my garden and ruining my plants. Your mom said that she is ready so it's time to go now". I took him by the arm and was dragging him toward the car. Then he made his whole body go limp so I let him go and left him laying on the sidewalk for mom to deal with and I went back inside. Usually as soon as they get outside my front door I close it immediately so I don't have to witness the madness. But this particular day my own kids were in the doorway saying goodbye so we all saw him carrying on.

[professionalmom]

I'll try the silent stare thing and see how that goes. I did finally step in when he trampled my plants. I said "OK, that's enough dcb! You are stepping in my garden and ruining my plants. Your mom said that she is ready so it's time to go now". I took him by the arm and was dragging him toward the car. Then he made his whole body go limp so I let him go and left him laying on the sidewalk for mom to deal with and I went back inside. Usually as soon as they get outside my front door I close it immediately so I don't have to witness the madness. But this particular day my own kids were in the doorway saying goodbye so we all saw him carrying on.

I have a question about parents that have lost control of their 2-5 year old children. If you can't get them to obey you in minor situations like this and you have lost control, what will you do when the child becomes a rebellious teen who's bigger and stronger than you? After all, when they are still this small, you just pick them up and carry them to where you need for them to go. You are bigger and stronger. No anger. No roughness. No hostility. Just pick them up and go. Quick and simple. You don't need to talk to them and convince them to comply. Just pick them up and carry on. Will they kick and scream? You BET! They are testing you and they have little to no impulse control. But you are teaching them that they will not always get their way and that you cannot negotiate everything in life. Milk cost $2.83 (or whatever). Period. You can't argue that. The boss expects you at 8:00, not 8:01. Period. It's non-negotiable. That's a part of life. We all have to do things we don't like, but you **** it up and do it. Why is it that so many people think that teaching that to children from an early age is so horrible? I think it just prepares them for the real world.
I'm not trying to start something on here. I just find it odd that I had one parent like this and he (DCD) just shrugged his defeat (toward me) because his 2 yr old son didn't agree with dad. Just pick him up and go. How hard is that?