What Should I Try?

[mema]

I have a 2 yr old that is very stubborn. If you ask him to do something, sometimes he doesn't want to. He will either start screaming or just scowl at you. The last few days it has been the screaming, but it hasn't been just the occasional time, it has been every time you ask him to do something. I've tried ignoring him and just going on without him, I've pretended to whisper something thinking he would stop and try to hear what I'm saying. He will lay in one spot for an hour and cry/scream/scowl. What else can I try?

[Truly Scrumptious]

When I have a child that refuses to do something...I use what I call "scooper hands"....I get behind the child and put my hands over their hands and "make" them do it. They can scream if they want to, I just walk along behind them "making" them clean up or put something back, etc..When the child is finished, they can finish their screaming in the cozy box. If it deals with anything else I've asked him/her to do, then I just physically lead them to do what is expected.

[cheerfuldom]

When I have a child that refuses to do something...I use what I call "scooper hands"....I get behind the child and put my hands over their hands and "make" them do it. They can scream if they want to, I just walk along behind them "making" them clean up or put something back, etc..When the child is finished, they can finish their screaming in the cozy box. If it deals with anything else I've asked him/her to do, then I just physically lead them to do what is expected.

thats really interesting....I would never do that myself. I dont physically make the kids do anything unless it is for a safety reason. I would just leave him there and let him miss out on the fun. Make one spot away from the fun (and attention) where he can cry as long as he wants and then go one with your day and let him see that coming back to the group is much more fun than crying on his own. that works about 95% of the time here.

[Hunni Bee]

When I have a child that refuses to do something...I use what I call "scooper hands"....I get behind the child and put my hands over their hands and "make" them do it. They can scream if they want to, I just walk along behind them "making" them clean up or put something back, etc..When the child is finished, they can finish their screaming in the cozy box. If it deals with anything else I've asked him/her to do, then I just physically lead them to do what is expected.

I do that sometimes, if it is something that HAS to be done. I have one that will stand screaming "i have to use the potty!!!" and wet himself, but when i tell him to go on, he refuses. Then after I get him to the potty, refuses to wash hands. He gets "scooper hands".

Anything else, they get to cry/scream/hate my guts in one.spot and can kindly join the rest of us when they've calmed down and done what I asked.

[Blackcat31]

When I have a child that refuses to do something...I use what I call "scooper hands"....I get behind the child and put my hands over their hands and "make" them do it. They can scream if they want to, I just walk along behind them "making" them clean up or put something back, etc..When the child is finished, they can finish their screaming in the cozy box. If it deals with anything else I've asked him/her to do, then I just physically lead them to do what is expected.

I chuckled when I read this because I used to do the same thing with my DS. He was soooooo stubborn that I would have to "help" him do things such as out his toys away or pick up his laundry etc.

Looking back now, (he is 21 yrs old) I feel I only did it because of his refusal to comply with my requests so I think I "made" him do it, not because the task was necessary, but more because I was angry that he didn't want to listen and was stubborn. Probably not something I would repeat today if I could do it all over again.

Mostly because I feel differently about what is and isn't important to me and because I understand so much more about child development and the different methods and techniques that are successful for helping kids learn and grow. Besides, also looking back, it didn't really net the results I wanted and sometimes just led to an even bigger power struggle, more anger, tears, frustration, a crying kid and an exhausted mother... Oh and not many toys picked up

NOT saying you shouldn't do "scooping hands" just relaying my personal feelings about this and my experiences with it.

thats really interesting....I would never do that myself. I dont physically make the kids do anything unless it is for a safety reason. I would just leave him there and let him miss out on the fun. Make one spot away from the fun (and attention) where he can cry as long as he wants and then go one with your day and let him see that coming back to the group is much more fun than crying on his own. that works about 95% of the time here.

This is more along the lines of how I feel today. I don't force or "help" a child complete any type of task now. They are invited to join us and if they decline, then oh, well. The rest of us carry on and do what we do.

If it is a task such as putting toys back or cleaning up, I can be very patient. The child can take all day, I don't care but they don't move on to the next activity until they have completed the first. If whatever we are doing next doesn't allow me to just let the child move at their own pace, then they lose a priviledge or are separated from the group (and any possible attention) until they are ready to join us. But I won't physically make anyone do anything. (Except like Cheer said, in cases of safety)

Seems the kids that are given no extra attention and aren't physically "helped" or forced to comply, figure out pretty darn quickly that there are just certain things you have to do in order to get to do the next thing. Fun/participation means having to have a bit of responsibility too, but I would no longer physically force that responsibilty or compliance.

[cheerfuldom]

I just wanted to clarify that the major reason I dont physically force kids to do things is because 1. many of the kids are just too big for me (I am just over 5 ft and pregnant!) and because 2. I dont like starting a "technique" that I cannot continue long term. I cant physically make kids do things until they are 5 and leave my program to go to school, so I dont even start it when they are small.

I dont do this with my own kids because as Black Cat said, you may get the immediate task done but have you done anything in looking at the big picture....creating a desire in the child to be cooperative and part of the group on their own, not just when physically forced to?

[Kiki]

This is more along the lines of how I feel today. I don't force or "help" a child complete any type of task now. They are invited to join us and if they decline, then oh, well. The rest of us carry on and do what we do.

If it is a task such as putting toys back or cleaning up, I can be very patient. The child can take all day, I don't care but they don't move on to the next activity until they have completed the first. If whatever we are doing next doesn't allow me to just let the child move at their own pace, then they lose a priviledge or are separated from the group (and any possible attention) until they are ready to join us. But I won't physically make anyone do anything. (Except like Cheer said, in cases of safety)

Seems the kids that are given no extra attention and aren't physically "helped" or forced to comply, figure out pretty darn quickly that there are just certain things you have to do in order to get to do the next thing. Fun/participation means having to have a bit of responsibility too, but I would no longer physically force that responsibilty or compliance.

I do about the same here. My children are the worst offenders, and for awhile I did do the scooper hands, but you bet your ruby slippers they still wouldn't pick up after I did it. I found it became a repeated habit, and they learned nothing from it. They did however, learn from being excluded from the group on activities because they didn't do the task they were given.

My middle DD is a screamer like the OP mentioned, this is going to sound absurd but have you tried crying with him? My middle can only take me making the screaming noises back at her for so long before she starts to laugh, and stops screaming. And I don't mean to scream at their level, just sit next to him, and make the same noises he's making with a smile on your face to see if you can calm him down enough to talk to him.

[Truly Scrumptious]

thats really interesting....I would never do that myself. I dont physically make the kids do anything unless it is for a safety reason. I would just leave him there and let him miss out on the fun. Make one spot away from the fun (and attention) where he can cry as long as he wants and then go one with your day and let him see that coming back to the group is much more fun than crying on his own. that works about 95% of the time here.

I don't mean for regular activities...for that,they can choose to participate or not. I'm talking about following the rules. The rule here is "If you play, you clean up"...I don't care who the mess belongs to, when it's time to clean up...it's time to clean up...for everyone. I have children who stand in the middle of the room and refuse...well that is unexceptable and unfair to the other children who are cleaning up...in that situation, I will use "scooper hands". (This is done in a positive manner, not with anger). And if it's time to sit down for a meal and the rule is everyone has to sit, then all children sit. I've had children to stand beside their chair...if this happens then I would "help them" in the chair....asking repeatedly and calling attention to the fact that they won't sit down does nothing. After a few times of handling it this way, they start doing it on their own, the same with cleaning up.

[Michelle]

they do scooper hands with autistic children but I wouldn't do it with the other kids.

[mema]

I guess I could really care less if he doesn't want to pick up or join us with an activity in the house. But what about when you are leaving the house? We go to the park everyday. He knows this. He also knows how to put on his shoes and hat. It takes him a little bit longer than everyone else, but I give him a head start. When I say dcb go put your shoes on, he will start with the scream/cry/scowl. He use to run to do it because he loves the park and playing outside, now he just flat out refuses. I'm not going to ruin everyones park/outside time, but at the same time, he knows how to put his stuff on and I don't want to give in everytime and do it for him. His folks already baby him quite a bit and I refuse to do that.

Right now everyone else is playing play dough and he is just scowling at them. If scowls could start fires, my house would be in flames I just don't get it. All the things he use to do with a few time exceptions, and now, boom, no more.

Maybe he is just having a rough few weeks. Maybe he will turn around in a few more. I just hope it is sooner than later.

[Blackcat31]

I guess I could really care less if he doesn't want to pick up or join us with an activity in the house. But what about when you are leaving the house? We go to the park everyday. He knows this. He also knows how to put on his shoes and hat. It takes him a little bit longer than everyone else, but I give him a head start. When I say dcb go put your shoes on, he will start with the scream/cry/scowl. He use to run to do it because he loves the park and playing outside, now he just flat out refuses. I'm not going to ruin everyones park/outside time, but at the same time, he knows how to put his stuff on and I don't want to give in everytime and do it for him. His folks already baby him quite a bit and I refuse to do that.

Right now everyone else is playing play dough and he is just scowling at them. If scowls could start fires, my house would be in flames I just don't get it. All the things he use to do with a few time exceptions, and now, boom, no more.

Maybe he is just having a rough few weeks. Maybe he will turn around in a few more. I just hope it is sooner than later.

It is sounding more like he is having something else going on (like you said)maybe at home or maybe he has an ear infection or isn't feeling good or is simply going through a bit of a stubborn phase and it will pass.

I am inclined to think it is some sort of change or something out of the ordinary that is causing this defiant behavior more than thinking it is just his nature.

As far as the park and the screaming, do you just dress him and go about your business? Maybe making him the line leader or giving him a task of some sort would focus his attention elsewhere and eliminate the crying/screaming.

Maybe before you guys all get ready to go,, have a quick chat with him and tell him you need him to be your big helper and then have him do some tasks like helping get Johnnys shoes for him or carry something for you or something like that?

[Blackcat31]

I don't mean for regular activities...for that,they can choose to participate or not. I'm talking about following the rules. The rule here is "If you play, you clean up"...I don't care who the mess belongs to, when it's time to clean up...it's time to clean up...for everyone. I have children who stand in the middle of the room and refuse...well that is unexceptable and unfair to the other children who are cleaning up...in that situation, I will use "scooper hands". (This is done in a positive manner, not with anger). And if it's time to sit down for a meal and the rule is everyone has to sit, then all children sit. I've had children to stand beside their chair...if this happens then I would "help them" in the chair....asking repeatedly and calling attention to the fact that they won't sit down does nothing. After a few times of handling it this way, they start doing it on their own, the same with cleaning up.

When it is clean up time and someone doesn't clean up, then they just don't get to play the next time. I still won't force anyone to do anything....even clean up. I know it isn't fair to the other kids but at the same time, it isn't fair that the kid that isn't complying gets your attention and focus when the ones who are cleaning up should get your focus and support for complying.

Besides in real life, it isn't fair. In any group dynamics there will be that one person who doesn't pull their weight or do their share. I think the natural consequences of those actions are far more powerful and impacting that being forced to contribute equally.

When I have a kid who refuses to clean up, they won't get the priviledge then of playing with toys later. No responsibility = no priviledges. (We do start fresh and new the next day)

If a kid stands next to the chair and refuses to sit for lunch, I ask him to do so one or two times and then I would wait until he sits. If he refused, then he would simply leave the area. Sit and eat or leave the area.

I refuse to give attention to a child who is behaving negatively.

Helping them when they are being stubborn or refusing is giving them attention or reinforcement for bad behaviors and I don't play that way.

[mema]

It is sounding more like he is having something else going on (like you said)maybe at home or maybe he has an ear infection or isn't feeling good or is simply going through a bit of a stubborn phase and it will pass.

I am inclined to think it is some sort of change or something out of the ordinary that is causing this defiant behavior more than thinking it is just his nature.

As far as the park and the screaming, do you just dress him and go about your business? Maybe making him the line leader or giving him a task of some sort would focus his attention elsewhere and eliminate the crying/screaming.

Maybe before you guys all get ready to go,, have a quick chat with him and tell him you need him to be your big helper and then have him do some tasks like helping get Johnnys shoes for him or carry something for you or something like that?

He has always been scowly and cried a lot when he first came, but the screaming has just started fairly recently.

As far as the park and outside, I give him a head start. Once everyone else has shoes, hats, sunscreen, etc on and are ready to go, I remind him we are going outside and give him another minute. I have been then just doing it for him. If we are just going outside at the house, I don't do any of it, I just have him walk out and sit out there with his stuff until he is ready to do it or ask for help. I don't mind helping if he asks, but not if he screams. If we are going to the park, I do it, we go and then he sits for a bit when we get there. Wrong or not I don't know.

I can't have him carry anything because well, he's not the greatest walker. Until he came to me, he was always carried or in a stroller (he still is at home). He is on the heavier side and I won't do that. He trips a lot and just randomly stops, sits, and cries.

[Truly Scrumptious]

When it is clean up time and someone doesn't clean up, then they just don't get to play the next time. I still won't force anyone to do anything....even clean up. I know it isn't fair to the other kids but at the same time, it isn't fair that the kid that isn't complying gets your attention and focus when the ones who are cleaning up should get your focus and support for complying.

Besides in real life, it isn't fair. In any group dynamics there will be that one person who doesn't pull their weight or do their share. I think the natural consequences of those actions are far more powerful and impacting that being forced to contribute equally.

When I have a kid who refuses to clean up, they won't get the priviledge then of playing with toys later. No responsibility = no priviledges. (We do start fresh and new the next day)


If a kid stands next to the chair and refuses to sit for lunch, I ask him to do so one or two times and then I would wait until he sits. If he refused, then he would simply leave the area. Sit and eat or leave the area.

I refuse to give attention to a child who is behaving negatively.

Helping them when they are being stubborn or refusing is giving them attention or reinforcement for bad behaviors and I don't play that way.

I guess we all just have to choose what works best for us.

[Blackcat31]

I guess we all just have to choose what works best for us.

Absolutely! And I meant no disrespect to you and how you do things. You are spot on that we all need to do what works best for us. That is the beauty of self-employment and being able to be in a position of making the rules.

I don't think there is any ONE right or wrong way to do anything when it comes to kids. The way we choose to deal with each and everyone of them and the individual behaviors they each have is as unique and as different as they are.