6yo Insists On Napping Rather Than Playing???

[Mary Poppins]

I have a 6yo dcb older sib who has been with me a few months now. My other two are 1yo and 14mo.

Since he started coming FT for the summer it has been a struggle to keep him engaged with anything. He doesn't want to play with any toys, doesn't want to go on any field trips, doesn't want to do ANYTHING (except watch tv which I won't allow for more than a few minutes at a time) or have an adult's full attention at all times (which I also refuse to do).

It's like he doesn't know how to play. In fact, it's like he doesn't want to be a kid at all, he wants to be an adult and will try to engage us in adult-type conversation, which usually crosses a line and gets him in trouble.

I have an entire play room full of legos, games, puppets, a train table, books, you name it - he doesn't want to play with any of it. If I buy something new he refuses to play with it. When we take him outside he gets bored within 5 minutes and either wants to engage us as peers or wants to come in and pout. If I let him play with the little kids he gets overbearing and gets in trouble.

He's very defiant, rude and bossy overall and has been quite challenging - to the point that I can not have any other children his age around (which is fine because I'm not really interested in more SAers and because his mom is willing to work with me - she is fully aware he has "issues" and prefers he be in my care rather than with a group of his peers, causing drama) but the refusing to do ANYTHING and the wanting to nap thing is bugging me.

When he first comes in at 6:30am I let him go back to sleep for awhile but now, lately he has decided he would prefer to nap off and on all day rather than do anything we offer for him. I will give him books and he uses the reading chair to sleep in. I will start to do a craft with him and he puts his head on the table and tries to sleep instead. Most days he starts trouble on purpose so he gets sent into the "thinking corner" where he will ball up and attempt to sleep.

It almost like it is his way of "winning" if that makes sense?

At first I thought he must need to sleep so I let him but then I asked his mom f he is sleeping well at night and she said no, actually, he stays up and messes around until almost midnight. So I can't let him sleep but I am not sure how else to get him to engage with playing or doing anything except getting into trouble, which seems to be his source of "entertainment".

Ideas? :confused:

[Heidi]

How is this little man at school? Does he do ok there because everything is directed for him?

At night...he "messes around". What does that mean? Get into trouble, or play? Does that mean he is capable of playing?

Is there any chance there is a medical issue that makes him sleepy? How is his nutrition, his color, his overall appearance?

Does ANYTHING interactive interest him? Video games even?

I would make up a seperate schedule for him, similar to the one the other kids have, but customized. Reading time, meal times, school time, outside time, etc.
I would also allow him some of the adult interaction he seems to crave. He is EMOTIONALLY and INTELLECTUALLY equal to any adult. He just doesn't have an adults life experience, and he hasn't earned the right to make his own decisions yet, or to take responsibilty for himself. But, let him do what he can. When he crosses the line and starts a conversation that you consider innapropriate (????), then tell him that. "DCB, I really enjoy talking with you, but that is adult conversation. Come see me when you're an adult, and we'll talk". If it's a matter of being sassy because he thinks he's your equal, I'd tell him kindly but firmly. "I know you're a very bright young man, but right now, I am making the decisions. When you are older, you will have earned the right to make those choices".

Is he intellectually advanced? If so, maybe try giving him harder books to read and activities. I don't know what materials you have available, but maybe he'd be more interested in researching WWII instead of reading "The Boxcar Children". Maybe a game of Chess would be more his thing.

Those are just a few ideas I have. Atypical kids can be very challenging, but they can also be a load of fun if you find out what makes them tick...

[Mary Poppins]

How is this little man at school? Does he do ok there because everything is directed for him? He did pretty horribly in school, actually despite having a special tutor. His mom brought me his workbook and journal and neither had but a few pages done in them all year. He also told me he would throw his homework away as soon as he got home and lie to mom about having any. Anything academic with him is like pulling teeth and we try daily to do educational activities with him but he fights us each step of the way.

At night...he "messes around". What does that mean? Get into trouble, or play? Does that mean he is capable of playing? She said he gets into their movies and watches them (some are wayyy inappropriate for him (see below!) to boot). I don't know if he plays with stuff in his room, we didn't go into that much detail. She did tell me that he sneaks up to watch tv downstairs though.

Is there any chance there is a medical issue that makes him sleepy? How is his nutrition, his color, his overall appearance?He eats healthy here but when she was sending his lunches before summer it was mostly junk food. He is quite overweight and that could be part of his issue. We try to get him active but again, it is like pulling teeth. He just wants to SIT and watch tv.

Does ANYTHING interactive interest him? Video games even? We do let him play the Wii once in awhile (he has to earn it which doesn't happen often) but rather than use it properly he wants to sit and work the controller rather than get active playing the game as it's intended.

I would make up a seperate schedule for him, similar to the one the other kids have, but customized. Reading time, meal times, school time, outside time, etc. He is on a schedule here already, it doesn't help a bit.
I would also allow him some of the adult interaction he seems to crave. He is EMOTIONALLY and INTELLECTUALLY equal to any adult. No, he really isn't. He just doesn't have an adults life experience, and he hasn't earned the right to make his own decisions yet, or to take responsibilty for himself. But, let him do what he can. When he crosses the line and starts a conversation that you consider innapropriate (????) He mostly wants to talk in detail about things like tv shows or movies he's seen (True Blood?!) or, for instance, he will ask "what are you guys scared of" and we answer with something like "spiders" and he will say "oh, you are just p*ssies". NOT acceptable at all type of behavior. , then tell him that. "DCB, I really enjoy talking with you, but that is adult conversation. Come see me when you're an adult, and we'll talk". If it's a matter of being sassy because he thinks he's your equal, I'd tell him kindly but firmly. We do this a million times a day and stress that he is not allowed to interrupt adults talking (which he does or attempts to do constantly)l. "I know you're a very bright young man, but right now, I am making the decisions. When you are older, you will have earned the right to make those choices".

Is he intellectually advanced? No, I don't believe so.If so, maybe try giving him harder books to read and activities. He hasn't grasped even the basics of reading despite our efforts so harder books won't work. He grows bored with ANY books (and I have a large variety). He hates books and makes sure we know it daily. I don't know what materials you have available, but maybe he'd be more interested in researching WWII instead of reading "The Boxcar Children". Maybe a game of Chess would be more his thing. We've tried every game we can think of, from checkers to chess to everything inbetween. Nothing interests him, except maybe for about a minute and then he devolves the interaction into wanting to debate or argue. I've even tried different approaches. Example: I tried teaching him dominoes and he hated it so I showed him how to line them up and knock them down, he didn't want to bother because it was "too much work".

Those are just a few ideas I have. Atypical kids can be very challenging, but they can also be a load of fun if you find out what makes them tick...That's where I'm struggling. I exert so much energy every day trying to find what makes him tick and so far it just seems to be pushing buttons and hating life . His mom says he is exactly this way at home, school, grandmas, etc... so I am at a loss!

I answered in red above. This child really makes me sad because his goal in life is to be dissatisfied and unhappy no matter where he is, no matter who he's around. His mom and I work closely together and have tried reward systems, punishment systems, everything we can think of and NOTHING is working to change his behaviors.

He can not seem to even give basic respect to an adult on any level and pushes his boundaries as far as he can. If I tell him a rule he purposefully breaks it. If I tell him certain language is not acceptable he will find a way to say something else offensive. He manipulates constantly and is just plain rude and is generally always in trouble at home, school and now here.

I suspect he has Oppositional Defiant Disorder and so does his mom. She is getting him assessed when school starts but until then... I am at a loss.

[Heidi]

I answered in red above. This child really makes me sad because his goal in life is to be dissatisfied and unhappy no matter where he is, no matter who he's around. His mom and I work closely together and have tried reward systems, punishment systems, everything we can think of and NOTHING is working to change his behaviors.

He can not seem to even give basic respect to an adult on any level and pushes his boundaries as far as he can. If I tell him a rule he purposefully breaks it. If I tell him certain language is not acceptable he will find a way to say something else offensive. He manipulates constantly and is just plain rude and is generally always in trouble at home, school and now here.

I suspect he has Oppositional Defiant Disorder and so does his mom. She is getting him assessed when school starts but until then... I am at a loss.

oK...thanks for the clarifications! I was thinking you had a bored gifted child. It seems to be quite the opposite.

From what you have said, an assessment sounds like an excellent idea. If money or insurance allows, I would recommend mom gets his doctor to refer him to a neurophsycologist. THe behaviors you are describing and their context raise a whole lot of red flags, and he probably needs more help than the school can provide.

[Mary Poppins]

oK...thanks for the clarifications! I was thinking you had a bored gifted child. It seems to be quite the opposite.

From what you have said, an assessment sounds like an excellent idea. If money or insurance allows, I would recommend mom gets his doctor to refer him to a neurophsycologist. THe behaviors you are describing and their context raise a whole lot of red flags, and he probably needs more help than the school can provide.

He definitely needs someone to help him because his future does not look rosy at this point.

At first, he reminded me of my oldest ds who has a real stubborn streak and can be sassy but my ds was respectful and knew his boundaries.

I don't want to give up on him at all and plan on keeping him at least through summer. I learned after agreeing to take him that I am his 3rd or 4th dc.

Right now I am able to keep him pretty well separated and we can give him plenty of one-on-one while still meeting the other children's needs and minimizing his influence on them but it is soooo draining.

His mom is great though and really sweet and acknowledges the problem so I want to help her help him. I'm just hoping someone here has had a child like this and has advice on how to help him. :confused:

[SilverSabre25]

oK...thanks for the clarifications! I was thinking you had a bored gifted child. It seems to be quite the opposite.

From what you have said, an assessment sounds like an excellent idea. If money or insurance allows, I would recommend mom gets his doctor to refer him to a neurophsycologist. THe behaviors you are describing and their context raise a whole lot of red flags, and he probably needs more help than the school can provide.

this, this, this.

Poor kid.

How about eyesight? Has he had his vision checked?

[C'est la vie.]

My questions would be for a doctor. Can a kid that young be depressed? It sounds like he's really bored or depressed. Poor kid.

[Mary Poppins]

this, this, this.

Poor kid.

How about eyesight? Has he had his vision checked?

You know, I am not sure. I will definitely ask his mom if he has had a vision and hearing test. I don't think that's the problem though because now that I think of it, he can do the work and he DOES know the basics (his abc's, phonics, etc.) but he just refuses to read and if you try to make him he will do it wrong on purpose. So it's not that he hasn't grasped the concept, he just refuses to do it. The thing is, if I tell him NOT to do a thing or tell him it's time to stop doing something, he will scramble to not only do it but will do it proficiently as if to "show me".

It is this innate need to rebel against any and all authority, it seems. Even to the degree that he will rebel against the instructions in his workbook and do the work incorrectly on purpose. I will read them to him, ask him to repeat them to me, go over them again just to be sure... and he will immediately do the opposite or as close to it as possible! In his handwriting book he will start out just fine, then half way down the page he will write the wrong letters entirely, right over the traceable ones.

His mom said his teacher noticed this about him during their numerous meetings about his behavior and I am seriously wondering why he wasn't referred for assessment during kindy. :confused:

[Mary Poppins]

My questions would be for a doctor. Can a kid that young be depressed? It sounds like he's really bored or depressed. Poor kid.

I know he has issues with his mom's bf and there have been a few things that make me think it is depression/anxiety related. I am going to stress to dcm that he needs to see a doctor NOW and we all need a plan of action to tackle this while he is still little and before he ends up lost in the system, so to speak.

[Kaddidle Care]

My questions would be for a doctor. Can a kid that young be depressed? It sounds like he's really bored or depressed. Poor kid.

I agree - he sure sounds depressed. Mom needs to let you know what really turns him on. It could be helping you cook, etc. Wowza.

[Mary Poppins]

I agree - he sure sounds depressed. Mom needs to let you know what really turns him on. It could be helping you cook, etc. Wowza.

That's the problem, he literally spends 99% of his time at home in trouble. If it isn't malicious mischief stuff it is outright rude behavior (mostly backtalking her). He is constantly grounded for something (recently it was spray painting the garage and breaking a fence. )

I have to watch him like a hawk here just so he doesn't misbehave in that sense. He can't be bored, we have tonssssss of stuff for him to do and I buy new stuff regularly. I even tried tempting him with fun field trips but he has yet to behave long enough to earn one!

I have asked outright what he enjoys doing and the answer I get pretty much is "watching TV". Which is why it gets taken away from him as a punishment.

Am I just dealing with a child who has had WAY TOO MUCH screen time I wonder? Is this why he doesn't want to do ANYTHING else and rebels so much? Because the TV doesn't expect anything from him and the real world does? :confused:

[Heidi]

That's the problem, he literally spends 99% of his time at home in trouble. If it isn't malicious mischief stuff it is outright rude behavior (mostly backtalking her). He is constantly grounded for something (recently it was spray painting the garage and breaking a fence. )

I have to watch him like a hawk here just so he doesn't misbehave in that sense. He can't be bored, we have tonssssss of stuff for him to do and I buy new stuff regularly. I even tried tempting him with fun field trips but he has yet to behave long enough to earn one!

I have asked outright what he enjoys doing and the answer I get pretty much is "watching TV". Which is why it gets taken away from him as a punishment.

Am I just dealing with a child who has had WAY TOO MUCH screen time I wonder? Is this why he doesn't want to do ANYTHING else and rebels so much? Because the TV doesn't expect anything from him and the real world does? :confused:

It would be easy to blame in on too much screen time, but it sure sounds like more than that. It sounds like more than just a parenting issue, although his parenting can be a factor. It could be SO many things, and it's pretty obvious that it's affecting his daily life. He needs some sort of professional help, no question in my mind, fromn what I've read here.

[Mary Poppins]

It would be easy to blame in on too much screen time, but it sure sounds like more than that. It sounds like more than just a parenting issue, although his parenting can be a factor. It could be SO many things, and it's pretty obvious that it's affecting his daily life. He needs some sort of professional help, no question in my mind, fromn what I've read here.

I think you're right, and it has to be dealt with soon, too. I mean I can keep this up with him even though it is exhausting but it is so not fair to him! He deserves to have a happy childhood.

[SilverSabre25]

ODD sounds like a very likely possibility. And honestly...bored bright child, too. You can't and don't see it because he isn't doing the work or showing the smarts, but he may well be very smart. This is pretty common with gifted kids.

Some of what you said more recently sounds a lot like my nephew...right down to the refusing to read. My nephew insisted that he couldn't read up until the end of second grade (this past year) when they got his Terra Nova test scores and they showed him in the 95th or better percentile for EVERYTHING. His parents sat down and said look, this means that you are better than almost everyone out there. And lo and behold, he admitted he could read and now loves it...go figure.

BUT, I have thought for a long time that nephew might have ODD, and that seems like a distinct possiblity with your dcb. Depression sounds likely too, or some other medical issue causing him to want to sleep so much.

I bet that step one for this child is to change the punishments, both at home and at your house. Time out is doing nothing to help, so stop it. We don't time out for backtalk/rude talk, we just correct the child and say sternly, "That's not something that's okay to say." 9 times out of 10 I never hear the word again. And...grounding at age 6?! That seems a bit extreme to me. Of course, he shouldn't even have had access to the spray paint, but a logical consequence there is that he has to help make it right--help fix the fence, help repaint what he spray-painted, etc.

he want to engage with you and other grown-ups--another hallmark of a gifted child. Are his only other playmates really just two babies/toddlers? Poor guy, he's seriously bored and needs some more kids his age! How about engaging HIM in conversation--"Hey dcb, what's something you really like?" and then ask him to tell you everything he knows about it. even if it's Pokemon and you could care less--show interest in it. Engage him. Learn about what he enjoys. Maybe play Wii WITH him? Don't make him earn it, just say, "Hey, dcb, i want to play this baseball game with you!" And really overplay how much fun you're having up doing it actively, but don't push him to get up and do it. Maybe try to be worse than him on purpose...and play up that he's really good at it. I tihnk he needs to be good at something.

[Mary Poppins]

he want to engage with you and other grown-ups--another hallmark of a gifted child. true, but the way he tries to engage is completely inappropriate.Are his only other playmates really just two babies/toddlers? Here, yes. This is because he has a history of not getting along well with his peers. He was sent to the principal for stabbing at his classmate with a pencil (he doesn't exhibit that type of behavior here because he is under constant supervision.)Poor guy, he's seriously bored and needs some more kids his age!We have tried to have other SA kids around him here and within a short amount of time they ALL can't stand to be around him. It is as if he alienates himself on purpose. I used to drop off/pick up at school and saw the same thing going on with his interactions with his peers there. He only lives to annoy others it seems, or to argue over menial things (which I refuse to allow - I won't argue with him at all) How about engaging HIM in conversation we've tried so many times to do just this... he will engage in conversation to a point but then eventually wants to devolve each conversation into a debate. OR, he wants to direct the conversation and push his limits on what is appropriate. He does this with his mom, grandma, etc. too, right in front of me. All of us stop him when it happens but he continues to want to only interact this way. :confused:--"Hey dcb, what's something you really like?" the answer is always the same "TV". I can't get him to even tell me what toys he has at home that he likes to play with.and then ask him to tell you everything he knows about it. even if it's Pokemon and you could care less--show interest in it. Engage him. I try daily to engage him, it just backfires. Learn about what he enjoys. Maybe play Wii WITH him? We always play it with him and he either wants to quit right away or wants to sit down to play games that require active play (Wii Sports for example)Don't make him earn it, just say, "Hey, dcb, i want to play this baseball game with you!" And really overplay how much fun you're having up doing it actively tried that approach at first and it backfires. It seems like whenever he gets positive attention he reacts by giving double negative back, if that makes sense? He is very, very oppositional in that aspect. A behavior chart where he earns stars is almost like a challenge for him to act worse and earn x's instead, kwim? This is part of why I believe he is ODD (along with the argumentative thing, wanting to annoy people all the time, etc), but don't push him to get up and do it. Maybe try to be worse than him on purpose...and play up that he's really good at it. I tihnk he needs to be good at something.so far he is very, very good at stirring trouble everywhere he goes . Other than that, I try my best to bring out any little thing I see as a potential and he refuses to allow it. If I say, "gosh, *****, you are REALLY GOOD AT COLORING!" he will say "no, I'm not" and start scribbling. Ugh!! I'm literally at a loss as to what to try next. It's been 3 months of using everything in our (mine and mom's) arsenal to get this child to modify his behaviors and just get along with us.. with someone.. with anyone..

Thanks for your input.

This is honestly the most challenging child I have ever encountered and the only thing I've found that somewhat works is to isolate him for chunks at a time and make him earn his interactions with us since it is what he craves (but he just doesn't know how to interact properly).

When I say isolate, I don't mean time-out, either. What I do is put him within sight and earshot of me and make him do x activity for x amount of time and when he is finished he can come sit by me and then we can talk and giggle (he has a great sense of humor) and play. He thrives on this but it only lasts a short time because not long after he gets attention back on him, he turns it into a negative in one way or another. No.matter.what.we.are.doing.

It's very draining but I do see the potential in him... he is quite charming. I don't think he is gifted, though. I've been around enough gifted children to get a sense of that. He just... is oppositional. Sleeping is his way of defying me and his mom because she wants him to do his sleeping at night... and he knows this.