Why Should Our Kids Not Be Counted In Numbers

[MommyofThree]

I tried really hard to come up with a list of pros and cons as to why you should and shouldn't count your own children and the only thing I keep thinking of is your statement that your 2 year old is really well behaved.

My sister thinks her 4 year old is a super responsible and well behaved child too. He cut the neighbors cats hair off the other day when she wasn't directly supervising him (because he doesn't really need supervision since he is so well behaved ).

Point being that what one person thinks is well behaved and not too much trouble is vastly different than what another person feels is the definition of well behaved or a good kid....kwim?

In that respect, ALL children should and need to be counted in your ratios unless they are basically old enough to stay home alone for short periods of time. My state does this in limiting the number of children I can have in specific age groups and limits the number of adults to children as they age since getting older means requiring less supervision in most cases.

I don't really understant what it is that you are trying to convey to your licensing department about not having to count your own children unless you are trying to change the laws...and that isn't going to happen as the trends in ECE and child care have been leaning towards cutting back on large group care settings with only one adult and strengthening the rules about supervision between adults and the number of children in care.

Too much liability when watching other people's children. The number of deaths that occur in child cares seem to increase every year....I have no statistical data I just know I can't open a newspaper or watch the news without hearing of another child dying in daycare.

If you are trying to get a variance for the number of children you have, why not simply state what precaustions you are going to take such as more barriers, adding video cameras, hiring a helper, or any other detail that will ensure that you are still going to give the additional child the same care and supervision you would any other child you have in care.

I also want to mention that the posters here are trying to answer your VERY vague question so getting snippy at them when they take the time to respend in the first place isn't helping. I don't mean to sound rude but from what I can tell, this thread IS confusing and I have read all the posts and your responses and I am still confused as to what it is you are actually asking.

One I got snippy with someone who thinks I want a one sided answer.. No that is not the case. CONFUSING??? OK I am asking what are the PROS of having your children counted in your numbers and what are the CONS of having your children counted in your numbers. Sorry but I dont know how much more clear I can be. I would just like to know. My two year old is the only one counted in my numbers. MY older two are not but yet they have to follow daycare rules like not going upstairs in their own bedrooms. that to me is a con. thank you

[sharlan]

Have you seen it in writing that your older children cannot go upstairs during daycare hours?

My gs is allowed to go upstairs during daycare hours when his 16 yo sister or mom is home. He is still counted in my numbers, but is not under my supervision. (Does that make sense?)

My kids were allowed to have friends over as long as they kids were able to come and go on their own. In other words, as long as the kids could walk or ride their bikes home, they didn't count.

[Lucy]

I'm not criticizing the OP here, just giving my thoughts on the subject in general. I mean no offense to anyone.

Personally, I don't see a reason for your own kids NOT to be counted in your numbers. Why would they be considered "free", so to speak? When you go outside, you (a generic "you", not the OP) have 9 to watch out for rather than 6 (for example). If there's a fire, you have 7 kids to get out of the house rather than 5 (for example). When you are occupied with making lunch (and we all know kids act up when they think we are otherwise-occupied), there are 8 kids who could possibly fall down and hurt themselves rather than 4 (for example). I could go on and on. And I don't think "well-behaved" is a reason to not count them. No matter how disciplined they are, they can still get hurt by someone else. A bigger number is more work and more exposure to accidents, and therefore I feel they should be counted.

[dave4him]

We have to count or kids in the numbers, however the food programs do not allow us to account for our own kids. So i gave up using the food program since i was spending twice as much money and getting very little in return

[BumbleBee]

Pro's:

More supervision, less chance of injury, more individual attention

Con's:

Less income, own children not being able to enjoy their home during daycare hours.


That is all I can think of at the moment.

[BumbleBee]

Thank you. I have two school age chilren that cant do things like have friends over or go up stairs in their rooms because they count in my numbers. My two year old also is well behaved where I dont need to have him count in my numbers. He is allowed to be out of my site on weekends like upstairs with his siblings or out in our fenced yard withn out me if his older siblings are out with him but since he is consider one of my daycare kids I cant let him be free in his own home. I also agree with you that I have no issues with my own children so I dont get why some have more issues with their kids m ore then the daycare kids.

One I got snippy with someone who thinks I want a one sided answer.. No that is not the case. CONFUSING??? OK I am asking what are the PROS of having your children counted in your numbers and what are the CONS of having your children counted in your numbers. Sorry but I dont know how much more clear I can be. I would just like to know. My two year old is the only one counted in my numbers. MY older two are not but yet they have to follow daycare rules like not going upstairs in their own bedrooms. that to me is a con. thank you

So are your school age children counted in your numbers or are they not counted in your numbers? If they are not, why can't they be in their own rooms? I guess I'm not understanding why they have to follow daycare rules if they aren't in your numbers. I can see not allowing daycare children in your school aged children's rooms but your own school aged children should be allowed. As far as the 2 year old, I can understand counting him/her and agree with it.

[DCBlessings27]

Cons: Older children can't have friends over during daycare hours if it puts you over your limit, own children must follow daycare rules instead of having freedoms in their own homes. If a provider has multiple children, income is less due to own children counting in numbers. My dd is 3, and I'm pregnant. When my baby comes, my income goes down because I now have 2 of my 6 spots taken instead of just one. That's 1/3 of potential income because I only take children from infant-5.

Pros: The limits that states have generally have good reasoning to ensure that a provider can handle only a certain amount of children in an emergency or on a daily basis.

These are the pros and cons I can think of right now. I don't always like that my children count in my numbers (KS), but I can understand the reasoning. I also wouldn't want to try to take on too many children by myself. My own children count in my numbers until they turn 12. Since I'm pregnant and my dd is 3, I haven't had to deal with the issue of having friends over that count in my numbers. DD also loves having her friends over, so she doesn't care if she has to follow daycare rules. I am, however, allowed to have up to 4 school-age children in addition to 6 children under 4 (depending on the number of infants I have). IMO, 10 children is plenty for me by myself. I only care for 6 children anyway.

In that respect, ALL children should and need to be counted in your ratios unless they are basically old enough to stay home alone for short periods of time. My state does this in limiting the number of children I can have in specific age groups and limits the number of adults to children as they age since getting older means requiring less supervision in most cases.

I don't really understant what it is that you are trying to convey to your licensing department about not having to count your own children unless you are trying to change the laws...and that isn't going to happen as the trends in ECE and child care have been leaning towards cutting back on large group care settings with only one adult and strengthening the rules about supervision between adults and the number of children in care.

Too much liability when watching other people's children. The number of deaths that occur in child cares seem to increase every year....I have no statistical data I just know I can't open a newspaper or watch the news without hearing of another child dying in daycare.

I agree with Blackcat. I bolded the parts I really agree with. When KS made everyone who wasn't inspected (registered homes) become licensed a couple years ago, we were told that they were making the rules strict because of the deaths/accidents in daycares. I have been surprised by how many states don't have licensing requirements since I've been on this site. (I don't have anything against anyone who is legally unlicensed. We just don't have that here.) I was given the impression that we had to have better regulations due to needing to be on par with other states.

[Hunni Bee]

Right now, I don't have any children of my own, but they would not count in my numbers in my state. I definitely plan on having my 2-year-old nephew in my care, but I think he will count as he wont be living in my house (I hope )

But, not getting on my soapbox about high caregiver/child ratios...

Pros: being able to take more kids, kids wont be bound to daycare rules in their own home

Cons: providers biting off more than they can chew, overcrowding, emergencies. Especially if theyre young. If you have 3 infants and 5 toddlers, even though 3 of them may belong to you...its still going to hard as hell to manage every one safely in an emergency.

A few summers ago, one of the teachers set the microwave on fire at my center. There wasn't really any flames, but lots of horrible smoke, so they evacuated the building. It was naptime. I didn't know what happened as far as the microwave, all I saw was the fire alarm going off. As far as I knew, it was a fire. I had to get 11 very sleepy, very confused preschoolers down the stairs to safety ALONE. I cant tell you the panic I felt.

So I'm guessing, situations like that are the logic behind including the providers own children in their numbers...just my guess.

[thatdivalady]

Hmmmm. I thought children only counted in your numbers when their caretaker is not on the premises. In other words, if their caretaker can take them at anytime they do not count. According to PA regulations that is the case. So I switch with my mother who helps with my daughter and either one of us can take her off site and the other can tend to the dc. My daughter is also not part of the daycare.

[Solandia]

Yes & no. I think they should count when little and on premises, but not at all after a certain age (like 9/10?yo).

As it is, a child "counts" until their 12th birthday. AND they "count" my kids regardless if they are they are here -or- at school or at grandma's for the week. I really bites since the vast majority of the time, my older kids have sport practice, extra band practice, a G&T session & doesn't get home until around when my daycare kids get picked up.

So, up until last year, i had 4 of my own kids, and until they are in 7th grade-ish, they count in my numbers 100% of the time. So, licensing rules states a max of 8 kids, my actual paper license only has 4. So in practice, when/if all the kids are in school...i can still only have 4 daycare kids at my house at any given time.

[Springdaze]

Before I answer, it would depend on how many non related you are allowed. I am only allowed 5 non related. if i had to count my own, I couldnt make much money, however NOT counting my kids I could only have up to 8 I think because only 3 of my own would not count (after 3 or maybe 4, they count.) of course if you are allowed to take like 8 not not related, yours should also count.

especially when they get to be school age, they shouldnt count. i wouldnt be able to keep spots open for my kids of the days they have off and for the summer.

[Kiki]

My two year old is the only one counted in my numbers. MY older two are not but yet they have to follow daycare rules like not going upstairs in their own bedrooms. that to me is a con. thank you

I don't understand why your children can't go up into their bedrooms, does it say somewhere in your rules that you can't allow them free roam of the home? And how does them not being counted into your numbers suddenly open the option for them to be able to have that free roam?
You kind of..live there, that is THEIR home.
Sorry if I sound snippy and mean, but I'm so very confused as of to why they aren't able to be in their own bedrooms, or in their own area of their own home. That they live in. All of the time.


I can tell you the pros and cons of Utah, because I know their max child ratio to caregiver. I can't tell you yours because I don't know your ratio. And by ratio I mean the number of children you are allowed to have in your home at all times, not the number you are allowed to be compensated for, there should be two separate numbers.

[DCBlessings27]

I don't understand why your children can't go up into their bedrooms, does it say somewhere in your rules that you can't allow them free roam of the home? And how does them not being counted into your numbers suddenly open the option for them to be able to have that free roam?
You kind of..live there, that is THEIR home.
Sorry if I sound snippy and mean, but I'm so very confused as of to why they aren't able to be in their own bedrooms, or in their own area of their own home. That they live in. All of the time.

I don't know what state the OP lives in, but my own children wouldn't be allowed to have free roam of my house until they were 12 bc they count in daycare numbers. For example, if I had an upstairs, we can't use upstairs for daycare. Thus, my own children would be stuck in the daycare areas even if their bedrooms were upstairs--according to our regulations.

[Crystal]

OP, could you tell me what state you are in?

[MommyofThree]

OP, could you tell me what state you are in?

NY. Thank you everyone for ur great comments. It helps.