Help for an 11-Year-Old

[fctjc1979]

My daughter will be turning 11 in a few days. I’ve been having some discussions with my husband about her lately (never in front of her) because he seems to think that she is just lazy. I, on the other hand, think that she does a lot more than other kids her age.

She takes care of two dogs and a cat, does the dishes, does some laundry, helps with the daycare kids, changes a lot of her one-year-old sister’s diapers (she knows this pregnancy is making me really nauseous so she volunteers), helps my husband take care of the flowers outside, cleans the kitchen, takes out the trash, straightens up the living room, helps me take care of her sister, and occasionally cleans a toilet. On top of all that (and more odds and ends stuff that’s hard to list), she does her homeschooling work. Some of the stuff we ask her to do and some of it she does on her own.

What really gets my husband is that she is messy. She has absolutely no concept of clean-as-you-go. She leaves messes all around the house. She has no problem with cleaning up these messes when we tell her to, she’s just a natural slob. She also doesn’t always finish the jobs she starts. She gets them mostly done, but then skips the last step. At this point, I think a lot of that is because my husband often has her stop what she’s doing to help him with something else and then she forgets to go back and finish. He has her doing something all the time. It seems to me like she’s constantly working.

A little about my husband: he is not my daughter’s biological father, but other than this constant need to have her doing some chore, they get along great, love to go do things together, and just generally love each other. My husband grew up with parents who didn’t do much of anything in the way of keeping house. In his words, he had to live in filth. He and his siblings washed out their own clothes in the bathtub. They basically had to take care of themselves. It’s one of the reasons that messes just drive my husband crazy. He was in the marines for years, then the regular army, and now the National Guard. He will be going on his sixth deployment starting July 27 of this year. He is also a correctional officer at a women’s prison. His life is all about order and rules: another reason that my daughter’s messes drive him crazy. I understand all this about him, but it’s still hard when I see him nitpick at her all the time. The one person he has respected his entire life is his brother because his brother did what he could to take care of him. When we went to visit his brother, he told my husband that he should praise my daughter more because she was such a big helper and was being treated more like a maid than a daughter. My husband actually paused at that one and seemed to consider it. I really thought that, coming from his brother, things might start changing for the better, but they haven’t.

I also know that I can be a bit sensitive when it comes to her. She has had a pretty hard life. She didn’t have a father for 7 years until I got married to my husband. Anyway, she’s been through a lot and I can be kind of paranoid about people not treating her right.

My husband has recently started mentioning things like getting her tested for ADHD or sending her to military school. He said it kind of jokingly but I know him well enough to know that he wouldn’t have mentioned it at all if the thought hadn’t actually crossed his mind seriously at some point. I’m totally lost on what to do here. I tend to think this is normal 10-11 year old behavior. I just can’t seem to convince HIM of that.

I know this is a forum about daycare issues, so this really isn’t the right place for this post. And I’m sorry it’s so long, but I could really use some insight on this. I’ve tried to be as honest as possible so you guys can get a clear picture of the situation.

[originalkat]

Man, that was a lot of information to take in. I dont know what advice to give you other than this. It sounds like your daughter helps out a lot and is far from lazy (especially by todays standards). I would just work on some organizational strategies with her. Create specific tubs for her school books and supplies so she can take them to her work area and keep things together instead of spreading things all over the house. Maybe come up with some tubs or storage bins in her room to keep her things organized. Before your husband comes home from work (assuming he works during the day) go through and do a quick clean-up (both you and her) and get things straightened up before he comes home. He obviously is over-sensitive when it comes to clutter because of his past experiences. You can not try to change him. You can only work on yourself and train your daughter in more organzational habits (which will help her throughout life anyway). I would discuss with him the efforts you are putting forth to ease his frustrations with the messes. Hopefully, he will respond well and appreciate the effort both you and your daughter are making.

I would NOT send my daughter to military school. You homeschool for goodness sake. Military school is the extreme in the oposite direction. I dont know about the ADHD, but I think it may be overdiagnosed (IMO) these days and I would tend to stay away from medicating my child if at all possible (especially if you do not feel she has these issues).

Hope some of that might help.

[fctjc1979]

I tried to shorten the post. It's still pretty long though. Anyway, I agree with you, originalkat, about the military school and the ADHD. I'll have to see if I can get some money saved up to get her a better organizational system.

[melissa ann]

I learend this at a workshop I took a few months ago. When you want a job done, write out the job description. Ex: trash, empty all the wastebaskets in the house, take out the bag in the outdoor trashcan, put in a new trashbag.
Ex. 2: laundry: gather clothes, put in washer machine, add det. turn on, when fiinshed, put in dryer, turn on. When dried, fold and put away.
For some, doing laundry is just putting it in the washer and that's it.
For younger kids, you can draw pictures of what is expected of a job requirenment.

[professionalmom]

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. To me it sounds like you have 1 gem of a daughter! From the things you described, I am getting the picture that she is a people-pleaser, very much like I am. The "problems" that are being attributed to her are very normal behavior for her age and not real "problems". For Pete's sake, she's not even 11 and your husband expects her to complete these tasks with the precision that many 16 year old can't. Personally I think the problem is your husband, not your daughter. He has major issues concerning cleanliness and perfection.

Why should a child have to work around an adult's psychological issues? Although I admire him for how far he has come and for all he has done, he does has some issues that HE needs to work on. After all, we are all humans, not machines (not matter what the military as convinced him that he is). And as humans, we are NOT perfect, even us supermoms!

Although it doesn't hurt to teach your daughter about organizational skills, it should NOT be in the context of appeasing your husband. That would be teaching her that she is not worthy of a man's attention or affection UNLESS she can be perfect. She needs to know that she is worthy of love no matter what. Maybe I am going somewhere I shouldn't and I certainly don't want to offend anyone. I just worry about girls learning that good or great isn't good enough unless it's perfect. This type of perfectionism, in young girls, can turn into many other issues later on, like eating disorders, promiscuity, etc. Sure, they need to learn how to do things and do them correctly, but it’s a work-in-progress. That’s why they are minors until they are 18. It takes that long to prepare them to be adults.

Instead of "fixing" her why not have a talk with him about how he could "fix" himself. Instead of him complaining that she didn't do something perfectly, maybe he can lavish some praise about what a great job she did, even if it wasn’t perfect. Then he can even show her how HE likes it done, but without sounding judgmental. He can maybe say something like, "I really like the way you loaded the dishwasher. That's very interesting! Did you know that everyone has a different way of loading it - not right or wrong, just different. Since you showed me how you like doing it, may I show you how I do it?" This would be a great bonding moment and I'll bet she would try to do it "dad's" way the next time, just to please him. But if she wants to continue to do it her way, so what? It's time he gives her a break. She is awesome beyond words. What would he do if you had a "normal" child (because this is 10x better than "normal")?

Also, if he wants her help with a project and she is engaged in some other chore, he will have to learn to wait for her help. He needs to give her a chance to focus on one task at a time.

I apologize if I have offended you. That is certainly not my intention. I just think he needs to lighten up and appreciate that great kid he has and he has to be very careful about trying to mold her to be "perfect".

[gbcc]

100% ditto to what Professionalmom said.

Also, I don't know where you live but here in my area we have whats called Rochestermommies. If you go to Themommiesnetwork.com you should be able to find a group in your area. They are great for support and playdates. Good luck.

[fctjc1979]

professionalmom, I think you hit the nail right on the head. I was beginning to doubt my own convictions because, after a while I think he just wore me down. I've been very concerned about her ability to understand that she doesn't have to be perfect for a man. Especially since her biological father abandoned her. I know my husband doesn't want to just be one more man that shows her that she'll never be good enough, but I worry that he may come across that way. I do think she needs to be more organized for her own sake. I know she wastes a lot of time looking for things that she could be spending on school work or playing with friends. Now I just have to figure out how to convince my husband that he needs to back off and let her be her. He's not always the best listener. Thanks for your comments, everyone. You've been a big help. Now can you just come over and knock some sense into my husband. ::::::

[professionalmom]

My degree is in Criminal Justice and I had to take some courses in Juvenile Justice, including Teens at Risk. Absent fathers or fathers that are impossible to please cause girls to set unattainable goals for themselves in an effort to please daddy. When they fall short of perfection, they can internalize it as a complete failure, which in turn causes depression, OCD, eating disorders, promiscuity, etc. Girls have a lot of societal pressures these days and having unrealistic expectations just adds to their feelings of failure and unworthiness.

I am a perfectionist, due to abandonment by bio-dad even though I got the world's best step-dad (aka daddy to me and papa to my daughter). I have to work very hard to take it easy on myself. And I work extra hard to not pass it on to my daughter. I would never wish perfectionism on anyone. Everyone should strive for excellence in whatever they do. But not perfectionism. However, I think your little girl is well on her way to excellence. She just needs some fine tuning on some of her skills, but hey, she has time. She only (almost) 11.

Try to find some information on perfectionism online and have your husband read over it so he can see that there is a dark side to it. Maybe you could suggest family counseling (tell him it's for your daughter's sake). Then the counselor can tell him that he's going overboard. Maybe if it comes from a professional (after all, do men really listen to us - the wives), maybe he'll see that she's a diamond of a kid who only needs a LITTLE polishing over the next couple of years (instead of right now).

If that doesn't work, give me your address and I'll come over and beat him over the head. Just joking. Good luck and give that sweet little helper of yours a big sloppy kiss for being such a great kid and big sis!

[professionalmom]

As soon as I hit submit, I thought of a great comment for him: DD is a little girl, not a soldier. This is a home and family, not a platoon.

[fctjc1979]

You know, I think he might go to family counsiling if I approach it the way the way you suggested - telling him it's for our daughter. I know a lot of girls that look for love in all the wrong places because they didn't get it from their dads growing up, so I know exactly what you're talking about on that front.

[misol]

My degree is in Criminal Justice and I had to take some courses in Juvenile Justice, including Teens at Risk. Absent fathers or fathers that are impossible to please cause girls to set unattainable goals for themselves in an effort to please daddy. When they fall short of perfection, they can internalize it as a complete failure, which in turn causes depression, OCD, eating disorders, promiscuity, etc. Girls have a lot of societal pressures these days and having unrealistic expectations just adds to their feelings of failure and unworthiness.

professionalmom you are so right about everything that you've said!

[MarinaVanessa]

Just a quick question ... is she creative? Into writing, poetry, dance or art? They say that people that are naturally creative are also naturally disorganized. I'm like that. I'll cook and eat during the day and leave the dishes in the sink and won't wash them until the end of the day. The table will have my projects on it and my part of the room is cluttered . My fiance hates it will usually wash the dishes (his peeve) as soon as he gets home for me. Our DC art projects look fantastic on our walls but the space is always littered with scraps and art material .

[fctjc1979]

Just a quick question ... is she creative? Into writing, poetry, dance or art? They say that people that are naturally creative are also naturally disorganized. I'm like that. I'll cook and eat during the day and leave the dishes in the sink and won't wash them until the end of the day. The table will have my projects on it and my part of the room is cluttered . My fiance hates it will usually wash the dishes (his peeve) as soon as he gets home for me. Our DC art projects look fantastic on our walls but the space is always littered with scraps and art material .

Yes, she is highly creative. That's what a lot of her messes are - craft stuff, paper and crayons/markers/paints, dress up stuff, sewing stuff, etc. We have bins for her to put the stuff in but she gets started on projects and then doesn't finish them or put the stuff away. I'm thinking about limiting this type of stuff to one corner of her room so that the mess has to stay in one spot. I'm not sure if that defeats the purpose of trying to help her be more organized though. I haven't quite made up my mind on that one yet.

[fctjc1979]

I think I can rule out ADHD, (not that I was seriously considering it anyway). Since we homeschool her, she took end of the year tests. She just finished fifth grade. For her, 5.7 is normal because she was in 5th grade, 7 months into the school year - that's how they got the 5.7. They then compare it to National Grade Equivelent.

Reading total - 6.4 (so she did work equivelent to four months into 6th grade)

Language total - 8.5 (with puctuation and usage/expression at 10.4 and 9.8)

Mathematics total - 7.7

Social Studies - 5.3 (slightly behind her 5.7 but basically normal)

Science - 7.7

Maps/diagrams/reference - 8.8

All I can say is WOW and WOW. I knew she was a smart cookie but I had no idea she was this smart. You should see her right now (well a couple of hours ago - we had to celebrate first) she is one proud little girl - and rightly so!! Maybe she just has so much in her head that something (like reminding herself to clean up her messes) had to go.::::::

[MarinaVanessa]

Sounds like you have a pretty well rounded daughter. I wouldn't worry too much about the messes. Ask your hubby of he would rather have a clean daughter than a bright daughter ::.