Cps

[Unregistered]

I am a regular and logged out for my own privacy.

I am also a Foster Parent.

I have had a child removed from the parent with a CPS Workers approval- I walked in on a child in a dangerous situation, took the child and went straight to the child's case worker. The parent busted walked out on the child.
The worker called in to a judge a cease and removal of the child immediately. A police officer can also do the same thing, if a child is in danger. It has to be very serious. They are not just going to take a child for the sake of taking a child.

I come into this knowing first hand that it can be done, I will however say that laws may be different state to state.

CPS is there for a reason- If you think our jobs are hard- you don't ever want that job. Kudos to the provider for making that tuff choice to make a phone call to CPS. It couldn't have been easy and I doubt it was done to turn a child or families life upside down. It was done out of serious concern. They will investigate and go from there. Better safe then sorry and not something to play around with.

[Buxterboo]

I agree. I have family that are foster parents, and I thank God for CPS. The stories I have heard about what the children in their care had to go thru before someone was brave enough to report. Its a hard decision to make, one that I hope I never have to. But as hard as it may be, I wouldnt hesitate to make the call. After years in healthcare, I have seen first hand what these kiddos look like immediately after they are "found". It breaks my heart to think that someone whould not be awaer enough to help these kids out.
If you suspect MAKE THE CALL! It is not up to you to investigate, prove, justify, or diagnose. Reasonable suspicion is enough.

[Willow]

I'm sorry to be skeptical, but none of that makes sense to me.

If the child had an assigned case worker already, a worker of which you not only knew existed but also had her contact information which I'm assuming then means *you* were the child's foster parent already (for confidentiality reasons I am not allowed to disclose to anyone that a child in my care is even in foster care, much less any of their case or case workers information), then the child was already in the system and a ward of the state.

There doesn't have to be a removal order if the parent doesn't have physical custody as it is so....:confused:

But then you also say the worker had to call a judge and get permission, which IS correct so again.....:confused:

Would help if you clarified.


If I went to pick up or drop off a foster kiddo of mine at a scheduled visitation and something was amiss then yes, I could pick up the kiddo and just go on my own accord. The parent has had their parental rights "suspended" for lack of a better word at that point based on evidence heard and they have no say where the child goes when, where or why.

That's a whole different hill of beans than a citizen making an accusation against someone and then hauling that someone's kid away at their own discretion and without due process.


Law Enforcement is not a Department of Human Services CPS division. What the two can and can't do are night and day.

[Crystal]

CPS can and will remove a child without a court order if the situation is dire enough to warrant doing so. If it is questionable, then yes, there must be a court order to remove the child, but CPS does have the authority to remove a child, with law enforcement present, if there is clear signs of abuse and high probability of it occurring again if the child is not removed immediately.

I got my information directly from a CPS case worker.

[Willow]

I don't understand the point of your response Crystal.

If CPS has the authority then why did the judge need to be contacted by the case worker in this situation?

If you want me to clarify and say if a child is about to be immediately bludgeoned to death then ANYONE can step in and save the child in that moment and until a judge can be contacted to order the child into care then sure, there it is. ANYONE can. You, me, a CPS worker, law enforcement, the mailman....anyone on the face of the planet can do such a thing.

-BUT-

Only a judge can suspend parental rights and turn the child into a ward of the state. Only a judge can sign that petition ordering a child into foster care. Only a judge can order visitation rights or not. Only a judge can order a child back out of the system or terminate parental rights severing all ties to one's child.

You, me, a CPS worker, law enforcement, the mailman...none of those people have the authority to take actual custody of a child. A judge is the only one who can decide that and has to in every. single. case.

I didn't think it needed saying but again, any joe schmo can take a child's hand and walk away for the 10 minutes it takes to contact law enforcement and then subsequently a judge to order a removal based on evidence necessitating it. A CHIPS petition takes literally only minutes to fill out.



The OP stated the child already had a case worker, whom she knew of to contact which means she was already involved in the child's case, and then the worker got the order (permission) from the judge to remove the child.

I keep re-reading and I still can't get that to make any sense.



What a wonky thread!

[Crystal]

I don't understand the point of your response Crystal. [/B]My response is based on the fact that you keep saying that a CPS worker absolutley cannot remove a child from the home without a court order....that is not accurate. [/B]

[/B]If CPS has the authority then why did the judge need to be contacted by the case worker in this situation? I would imagine that after the child has been physically removed, then there would have to be court involvement. Of course a child cannot be removed and NEVER have any court involvement after the fact.

If you want me to clarify and say if a child is about to be immediately bludgeoned to death then ANYONE can step in and save the child in that moment and until a judge can be contacted to order the child into care then sure, there it is. ANYONE can. You, me, a CPS worker, law enforcement, the mailman....anyone on the face of the planet can do such a thing. You don't need to be snarky. A child doesn't have to be in THAT imminent of danger to be removed without a court order. If a child has clear signs of sexual abuse, they can be removed from the home by a CPS worker and police officerbefore contcting a judge for a warrant.

-BUT-

Only a judge can suspend parental rights and turn the child into a ward of the state. Only a judge can sign that petition ordering a child into foster care. Only a judge can order visitation rights or not. Only a judge can order a child back out of the system or terminate parental rights severing all ties to one's child. Certainly. This does not mean that a child cannot be removed from the home by a CPS worker. It simply means that AFTER a child has been removed, then there must be appropriate legal proceedings to determine whether the child should be placed in foster care or returned to the parents.

You, me, a CPS worker, law enforcement, the mailman...none of those people have the authority to take actual custody of a child. A judge is the only one who can decide that and has to in every. single. case. You are wrong. Taking custody of a child CAN be done by a CPS worker and a police officer. It certainly is not permanent until a judge decides on the case, but YES, a CPS worker CAN take custody of a child if the situation is dire enough to do so.

I didn't think it needed saying but again, any joe schmo can take a child's hand and walk away for the 10 minutes it takes to contact law enforcement and then subsequently a judge to order a removal based on evidence necessitating it. A CHIPS petition takes literally only minutes to fill out.



The OP stated the child already had a case worker, whom she knew of to contact which means she was already involved in the child's case, and then the worker got the order (permission) from the judge to remove the child.

I keep re-reading and I still can't get that to make any sense.



What a wonky thread!

This thread was started, I believe, in response to yesterday's thread. I am pretty sure the OP was talking about that case, as well as the one she mentioned above. I am not sure why this seems to be such a heated discussion, or why you are so defensive about it. The fact of the matter is that a CPS worker can and will remove a child from the home without appearing before a judge and without a warrant if neccessary. I am not sure why there is such confusion about this?? :confused:

[AmyLeigh]

I think the problem here is in the verbage. CPS can physically remove a child from the parent's care. They work very closely with law enforcement. Within a certain amount of time (usually 48-72 hours) there is a detention hearing to determine what is the course of action for the best interest of the child. This give the social workers a reasonable amount of time to do their investigation. Could you imagine an extremely abusive/neglectful parent being told that CPS will be back to take their child after the social worker goes to petition the court in a day or two? The child would be nowhere to be found.
The case OP is talking about does sound to be missing a few details. Maybe the family was in Family Maintenance, where the child is still deemed ward of the court, but lives with the parents under court and CPS supervision. This will often occur before they are released from the system.

[Crystal]

I think the problem here is in the verbage. CPS can physically remove a child from the parent's care. They work very closely with law enforcement. Within a certain amount of time (usually 48-72 hours) there is a detention hearing to determine what is the course of action for the best interest of the child. This give the social workers a reasonable amount of time to do their investigation. Could you imagine an extremely abusive/neglectful parent being told that CPS will be back to take their child after the social worker goes to petition the court in a day or two? The child would be nowhere to be found.
The case OP is talking about does sound to be missing a few details. Maybe the family was in Family Maintenance, where the child is still deemed ward of the court, but lives with the parents under court and CPS supervision. This will often occur before they are released from the system.

Ack!!!! Thank you!

[Crystal]

31-130 LAW ENFORCEMENT ASSISTANCE 31-130
.1 The social worker shall request law enforcement assistance under either of the following circumstances:
.11 The physical safety of family members or county staff is endangered.
.12 A child must be placed in temporary custody and the social worker is not deputized as a peace officer or authorized by Welfare and Institutions Code Section 306(b) to take temporary custody..121 The social worker may take a child into temporary custody without the assistance of law enforcement whenever authorized to do so under Welfare and Institutions Code Section 306.
.2 Law enforcement assistance shall be used as an aid to emergency response services and not as a substitute for any of the following:
.21 Completion of the emergency response protocol as specified in Section 31-105.
.22 Performance of the in-person investigation specified in Section 31-110.
NOTE: Authority Cited: Sections 10553 and 10554, Welfare and Institutions Code. Reference: Sections 306, 10553, and 10554, Welfare and Institutions Code.
31-135 AUTHORITY FOR REMOVAL OF CHILD 31-135
.1 When the social worker determines that the child cannot be safely maintained in his/her own home, the social worker shall ensure that authority to remove the child exists prior to removal.
.11 If removal is voluntary, such authority shall be a written consent of the parent/guardian.
.12 If removal is involuntary, such authority shall be temporary custody as specified in Welfare and Institutions Code Sections 305 and 306, or a court order.
.121 If a determination has been made in accordance with Welfare and Institutions Code Section 308 that the minor or his/her foster family would be endangered or his/her custody would be disturbed by the disclosure to the parent(s)/guardian(s) of the minor's exact whereabouts, the social worker shall notify immediately the parent(s)/guardian(s) either in person or by telephone of his/her right to apply for judicial review of that determination within 24 hours.
31-135 AUTHORITY FOR REMOVAL OF CHILD 31-135
(Continued)
(a) If the social worker fails to notify the parent(s)/guardian(s) as specified in Section 31-135.121, the social worker shall document in the case record the reason(s) for failure to do so.
.2 The social worker shall document in the case record any preplacement preventive efforts made or services provided.
.21 If first contact with the family occurs during an emergency situation in which the child cannot safely remain in the home, even with reasonable services being provided, the social worker shall document those circumstances in the case record.
.22 If the child has been removed due to the absence of the parent(s), for one of the reasons stated in Welfare and Institutions Code Section 361(b)(5), the social worker shall document those circumstances in the case record.
.3 If the child is in out-of-home placement following a voluntary removal, and the social worker determines that continued out-of-home placement is necessary for the child's protection, the county shall implement a voluntary placement agreement as specified in Section 31-430.31.
.4 If the child is in temporary custody following an involuntary removal, and the social worker determines that continued detention is necessary for the child's protection, the social worker shall take the following action:.41 File a petition for detention of and jurisdiction over the child within 48 hours of the child's removal from his/her home, excluding nonjudicial days.
HANDBOOK BEGINS HERE
.411 Juvenile court procedures regarding detention of minors and filing petitions are described in Welfare and Institutions Code Sections 311(a), 319, and 332.
HANDBOOK ENDS HERE
NOTE: Authority Cited: Sections 10553 and 10554, Welfare and Institutions Code. Reference: Sections 305, 306, and 308 (as amended by Assembly Bill 4122, Chapter 320, Statutes of 1990), Welfare and Institutions Code.
CALIFORNIA-DSS-MANUAL-CWS
MANUAL LETTER NO. CWS-95-01 Effective 12/6/95
Page

[DCMom]

This has really become quite a heated debate...

I never have and I hope that I never will have contact with any CPS personnel. That being said, this may be a stupid question but I seen pp's are from different states. Do CPS rules differ in different states ( like daycare licensing regulations? )

I just wondered

[Blackcat31]

That being said, this may be a stupid question but I seen pp's are from different states. Do CPS rules differ in different states ( like daycare licensing regulations? )

I just wondered

I may be wrong, but I think the basics for CPS is a federal thing but HOW each state funds and delivers services may differ.

I do know the child protection agencies are governed by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and that is a federal agency.

Federal laws provide standards and guidelines; however, these issues are primarily governed by State laws and regulations in the United States

[Willow]

I think the problem here is in the verbage. CPS can physically remove a child from the parent's care. They work very closely with law enforcement. Within a certain amount of time (usually 48-72 hours) there is a detention hearing to determine what is the course of action for the best interest of the child. This give the social workers a reasonable amount of time to do their investigation. Could you imagine an extremely abusive/neglectful parent being told that CPS will be back to take their child after the social worker goes to petition the court in a day or two? The child would be nowhere to be found.
The case OP is talking about does sound to be missing a few details. Maybe the family was in Family Maintenance, where the child is still deemed ward of the court, but lives with the parents under court and CPS supervision. This will often occur before they are released from the system.

I do agree semantics seem to be the root of the misunderstanding here.

Although in my state anyway a CHIPS or CHINS petition has to be filed at the time of removal and the detention hearing (I'm assuming that's what I know as a juvenile adjudication hearing) is what comes within 72 hours to decide if the child needs to stay in care longer so the county can move forward with developing a case plan and or concurrent planning if it's thought the child isn't going to be able to be reunited with their parent(s).


That's also why I believe what I do about the CPS worker that actually saw the child in the situation discussed yesterday. If there was ANY evidence the child had been sexually abused or raped there is no way that child would been allowed to return home with the parents for the evening. The child would have been detained immediately.

[Willow]

I may be wrong, but I think the basics for CPS is a federal thing but HOW each state funds and delivers services may differ.

I do know the child protection agencies are governed by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and that is a federal agency.

Federal laws provide standards and guidelines; however, these issues are primarily governed by State laws and regulations in the United States

Yep.

[Willow]

Crystal, I don't mean to come across as defensive, I'm sorry if my posts have that tone.

I'm just trying to correct what I see as misinformation, there tends to be an awful lot of of that everywhere. There are also an awful lot of people who claim to know what the kids in foster care are like, what the process involves, what the families are like all without having a clue and yes, that makes me very angry and frustrated at times.

That misinformation along with a myriad of stereotypes are exactly what drive so many people away from ever getting involved with helping the kids and families that end of in the system.

Add to that I'm a pretty blunt person in general and I can easily see where I could be coming off as brash about it all.

[Unregistered]

Crystal, I don't mean to come across as defensive, I'm sorry if my posts have that tone.

I'm just trying to correct what I see as misinformation, there tends to be an awful lot of of that everywhere. There are also an awful lot of people who claim to know what the kids in foster care are like, what the process involves, what the families are like all without having a clue and yes, that makes me very angry and frustrated at times.

That misinformation along with a myriad of stereotypes are exactly what drive so many people away from ever getting involved with helping the kids and families that end of in the system.

Add to that I'm a pretty blunt person in general and I can easily see where I could be coming off as brash about it all.

Willow- your heart is in a good place, it has to be. Foster Parenting is harder then daycare! As you know I can't get into anymore then what I have said and really I don't want to. I agree with you a lot of unanswered questions regarding the other thread. I hope that person updates us and does it logged out. I wanted to get the point to anyone else reading this thread- if your in doubt, don't be afraid to report. Even if it does cause uncomfortableness for everyone involved. Better to be safe then sorry. There are bad people out there, and they come in the forms of all. On the flip side of that, there a ton of good ones too-