Apparently Positive Reinforcement Doesn't Work?

[BusyBee]

Since school has been out, every time I "catch my kids being good" and praise them, 10 minutes later they turn around and do something "naughty". Anyone else experience this??

My own SA even said "Mom you shouldn't say good job anymore because then they just do something bad." Perceptive. And I was praising them earlier for playing so well and following my playroom rules. They went to finish playing before nap while I was putting the littles down and were throwing toys at each other. They are 8 and 5 and had been playing for about 2 minutes. Seriously????

I am about to give up. I can't but I want to so badly. We need the money but I seriously have had it and am at my wit's end with these kids.

Any advice or a pep talk would be good.

[cheerfuldom]

Hang in there! Sounds like it is time to set some structure into their day instead of so much free time. Outside as much as possible, daily walks to wear them out. Earning privileges like TV time, computer games or video games. You need to figure out what they want to do and use that as a motivation for good behavior. Positive reinforcement shouldnt be just about words.....actions showing that "when you do this good behavior, you earn these good things" is very powerful as well. If it is just praise, it really doesnt go that far with kids that age. I think that praise is good, but if it is just praise, that is usually more effective with younger kids.....you know, the ones that actually care about making some happy, making someone proud. By school age, a lot of these kids are over that and ready for a something more age appropriate.

[BusyBee]

We have a routine, they do have free play built in, but maybe they need to lose the one after lunch especially. It is only about 15 minutes...

Typically we go for a walk/hike in the am
Do crafts/read/color
snack
free play/play outside when it is nice
lunch
about 15 minutes of play while getting little ones ready
nap
1/2 hour cartoon
workbook type things for SA kids
snack
outside until pickup

I guess I need to tighten the reigns even more.

DH was saying how he never would have dreamed of behaving this way in someone else's home. I wouldn't either I would have been in serious trouble. Times have changed...

[BusyBee]

Hang in there! Sounds like it is time to set some structure into their day instead of so much free time. Outside as much as possible, daily walks to wear them out. Earning privileges like TV time, computer games or video games. You need to figure out what they want to do and use that as a motivation for good behavior. Positive reinforcement shouldnt be just about words.....actions showing that "when you do this good behavior, you earn these good things" is very powerful as well. If it is just praise, it really doesnt go that far with kids that age. I think that praise is good, but if it is just praise, that is usually more effective with younger kids.....you know, the ones that actually care about making some happy, making someone proud. By school age, a lot of these kids are over that and ready for a something more age appropriate.

I have nothing I can give or take away that they would even remotely care about... If you have a suggestion that would be great!

[cheerfuldom]

I have nothing I can give or take away that they would even remotely care about... If you have a suggestion that would be great!

yeah that is definitely a problem. I guess you just have to figure out what motivates them and try and work that into your program for the summer.

[BusyBee]

yeah that is definitely a problem. I guess you just have to figure out what motivates them and try and work that into your program for the summer.

I don't think I have it in me...

[WImom]

Since school has been out, every time I "catch my kids being good" and praise them, 10 minutes later they turn around and do something "naughty". Anyone else experience this??

My own SA even said "Mom you shouldn't say good job anymore because then they just do something bad." Perceptive. And I was praising them earlier for playing so well and following my playroom rules. They went to finish playing before nap while I was putting the littles down and were throwing toys at each other. They are 8 and 5 and had been playing for about 2 minutes. Seriously????

I am about to give up. I can't but I want to so badly. We need the money but I seriously have had it and am at my wit's end with these kids.

Any advice or a pep talk would be good.

YES!!! Why is that? It's almost like I don't want to say anything so it stays good. When they are reading quietly before nap every single time I say "I love how everyone is reading so quiet." Not two minutes later they are fooling around.

[BusyBee]

YES!!! Why is that? It's almost like I don't want to say anything so it stays good. When they are reading quietly before nap every single time I say "I love how everyone is reading so quiet." Not two minutes later they are fooling around.

Sorry it happens to you too, but I'm glad I'm not alone! I may have to do some reading!

[Blackcat31]

We have a routine, they do have free play built in, but maybe they need to lose the one after lunch especially. It is only about 15 minutes...

Typically we go for a walk/hike in the am
Do crafts/read/color
snack
free play/play outside when it is nice
lunch
about 15 minutes of play while getting little ones ready
nap
1/2 hour cartoon
workbook type things for SA kids
snack
outside until pickup

I guess I need to tighten the reigns even more.
DH was saying how he never would have dreamed of behaving this way in someone else's home. I wouldn't either I would have been in serious trouble. Times have changed...

I think you answered your own problem.

I am VERY strict about what kind of behaviors I allow in my home. If I caught a 5 and 8 yr old throwing toys, both of them would have been sitting (doing nothing else) at my table where I can see them until their parent picked them up. I do not tolerate behavior like that from kids who are well beyond not really knowing better...kwim?

The cartoon you allow should also be a priviledge NOT a right so if the kids aren't behaving, then there would be no TV time at all. Same goes for nap. If you want to play quietly or not nap, then you better be on your best behavior. (I don't take kids who don't nap but that is what I used to do when I did have non-nappers)

As for the walks, the kids who behave get to walk on the walking rope like big kids, the ones who mess around have to hold my hand. Basically, if you act like a toddler, I will treat you like one.

I am very clear about my expectations so the kids in my program know full well what will get them in trouble and what won't. I do none of that "discussion" stuff about why we don't hit or throw or whatever....I just don't allow it and if they do it, I act swiftly and quickly by removing them from the area. I usually do not have repeat offenders with anything. I will go so far as reward the rest of the group with a special treat or activity so the offender knows he gets nothing for bad behavior....not even attention.

They learn really fast when you "tighten those reins". ....and just in case others are wondering; Yes, I absolutely run a tight ship but RARELY do I have to get on or scold one of my DCK's about anything. I rarely have any throwing, hitting or fighting situations because my kiddos all learned fast that it is absolutely unacceptable behavior at my house.

I have left kids behind for field trips and left them out of fun activities and will gladly do it again if it is necessary. There might be a whole slew of parents that are afraid to tell their children no but I am certainly not.

I understand the whole concept of "positive reinforcement" but in all honesty....it really doesn't work so hot in my opinion.

I would rather have consequences to bad behaviors and not reward for something (good behavior)that is expected and normal. I don't see anyone paying me extra to do my normal job so why are we so insistent on teaching kids they will get something good for simply acting like a normal human being?! :confused:

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch.... ~ I would handle this ALOT differently if the kids were younger than 5 and 8.

[BusyBee]

I think you answered your own problem.

I am VERY strict about what kind of behaviors I allow in my home. If I caught a 5 and 8 yr old throwing toys, both of them would have been sitting (doing nothing else) at my table where I can see them until their parent picked them up. I do not tolerate behavior like that from kids who are well beyond not really knowing better...kwim? They IMMEDIATELY went down for nap/quiet time.

The cartoon you allow should also be a priviledge NOT a right so if the kids aren't behaving, then there would be no TV time at all. If it is just the same two all the time, I don't want to punish the other kids as well. I don't have a place to separate them from the others for cartoon time...Same goes for nap. If you want to play quietly or not nap, then you better be on your best behavior. (I don't take kids who don't nap but that is what I used to do when I did have non-nappers) They have been doing good at nap, actually. Hallelujah!

As for the walks, the kids who behave get to walk on the walking rope like big kids, the ones who mess around have to hold my hand. Basically, if you act like a toddler, I will treat you like one. My kids all do really well on walks too. I have a big enough stroller for my little ones and we have taken the path enough times that the big ones know if they want to run ahead they need to stop at checkpoints along the way. Not very far ahead btw...

I am very clear about my expectations so the kids in my program know full well what will get them in trouble and what won't. I do none of that "discussion" stuff about why we don't hit or throw or whatever....I just don't allow it and if they do it, I act swiftly and quickly by removing them from the area. I usually do not have repeat offenders with anything. I will go so far as reward the rest of the group with a special treat or activity so the offender knows he gets nothing for bad behavior....not even attention. I am very strict too, I think I am too strict and feel like a total nag half the time. I may have to try the special treat thing though.

They learn really fast when you "tighten those reins". ....and just in case others are wondering; Yes, I absolutely run a tight ship but RARELY do I have to get on or scold one of my DCK's about anything. I rarely have any throwing, hitting or fighting situations because my kiddos all learned fast that it is absolutely unacceptable behavior at my house.

I have left kids behind for field trips and left them out of fun activities and will gladly do it again if it is necessary. There might be a whole slew of parents that are afraid to tell their children no but I am certainly not.

I understand the whole concept of "positive reinforcement" but in all honesty....it really doesn't work so hot in my opinion.

I would rather have consequences to bad behaviors and not reward for something (good behavior)that is expected and normal. I don't see anyone paying me extra to do my normal job so why are we so insistent on teaching kids they will get something good for simply acting like a normal human being?! :confused:

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch.... ~ I would handle this ALOT differently if the kids were younger than 5 and 8.

I think I am just so burned out that I just can't find it in me to care about what motivates them I just want them to stop and follow my VERY SIMPLE AND REASONABLE rules--that btw you would think would be in place in their own homes...

I'm waiting for this difficult time--summer--to be over so I can go back to my lovely school year routine!! I am REALLY tempted to just eliminate my SA. DH and I have a goal to be done in 2 years anyway so I am trying to stick it out!!!

[Blackcat31]

I think I am just so burned out that I just can't find it in me to care about what motivates them I just want them to stop and follow my VERY SIMPLE AND REASONABLE rules--that btw you would think would be in place in their own homes...

I'm waiting for this difficult time--summer--to be over so I can go back to my lovely school year routine!! I am REALLY tempted to just eliminate my SA. DH and I have a goal to be done in 2 years anyway so I am trying to stick it out!!!

Oh, as far as no cartoon time, I meant just for the badly behaved kids. Do you not have even a table or quiet corner to put them in so they can't see the TV while the others still get their earned "priviledge" of TV time?

I know what you mean about feeling like a nag alot of time's but honestly when you have ot repeat yourself continually about one specific behavior or repeatedly to one child about constantly mis-behaving, then the talking (nagging) you do is pointless as they are obviously not listening....Instead of nagging or maybe you could ask them what they did wrong, why they aren't suppose to do it and what they feel is a good consequence that will stop them from repeating. Sometimes involving them in the process of eliminating bad behaviors helps alot.

Kids KNOW when they are mis-behaving but they aren't going to stop until it becomes a problem for them and right now it sounds like it is only a problem for you....kwim? (((hugs))) though for having to deal with this at all....definitely makes for a long summer.

Maybe you hit the nail on the head when you said you want to ditch the SA kids all together.... That really made a HUGE impact on my attitude, environment and the behavior of ALL my other kids. That may really be the only feasible option as it seems the SA kids are what "lead" the other kids.