4 Year Old Daycare Boy Cries at Dropoff

[My4SunshineGirlsNY]

So I have had this 4 year old daycare boy for about 3 weeks now (and previously watched him late Jan. for only 2 weeks)...and he has come a long way since the first week as he had NO discipline at all...he wanted to do what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it and in daycare that can't happen, I'm on a schedule and if he breaks the rules, all the others will think it's ok too and my day would be CRAZY!

So his first week I had to use a lot of time outs...I'm not mean to him at all, if he doesn't follow my rules he gets a warning and then if that is ignored I give a simple time out...his choice...he can behave and listen, or time out. I speak to him nicely as I do all the rest of the kids when we are doing things...when he misbehaves I get out my stern daycare lady voice so he knows I mean business.

He has been a lot better but he still is stubborn many times through the day. So lately when he is dropped off, he has been clinging to his mom and even though I try to sweet talk him out of a crying fit by offering him things to do he clings to her like a little baby (he's very spoiled by mom, remember he is the boy that got in her drivers seat with car running with his mom inside my house and it was ok with mom @@) and cries.

When he came to my daycare back in Jan. the mom said he didn't like the ladies at the daycare center he was going to and cried when she had to leave. He didn't do this to me back then but I was being played and wasn't being strict and he was a MONSTER in my house, touching EVERYTHING with no boundaries (helping himself in my daughter's rooms touching anything he could). So when he came back a few weeks ago, I laid out some rules.

Bottom line is this boy doesn't like to follow rules, and I have told his mom he is giving me a hard time and she doesn't say much. He is not a bad boy by any means, he's 5X better than a couple kids I used to watch, but he needs time outs from time to time to stay in line with rules.

So now I'm feeling like this boy hates my daycare because he cries when he is dropped off...although I know I'm doing nothing wrong, I get that stressed out feeling that his mom thinks I might be mean to him all day long, and I treat him very well, just strict with rules which I have to be, mostly for safety. This boy walks out my front door without me a few times and I have told him that is a definite NO NO, he is not to be outside without me.

Does anyone else have an older toddler that is stubborn with rules? Do they seem to go and tell mom you're mean? I don't want to be preceived as a mean daycare lady, but by word rules need to be followed in daycare.

[Daycare Mommy]

I'd keep up the good work and take that he is reluctant to leave mom in the morning to mean that you are on the right track with him. Of course he prefers mom right now, she gives him what he wants. You on the other hand are helping him to learn to play by the rules. Not fun to learn, but his life will be so much easier once you get him there.

[My4SunshineGirlsNY]

You on the other hand are helping him to learn to play by the rules. Not fun to learn, but his life will be so much easier once you get him there.

I know the school will thank me..he will be going to all day pre-K in the fall. They have a tight schedule and rules as well. It's the only way to keep order when there are multiple young ones.

[Greenshadow]

I have a little girl that started about a month ago that is starting to cling to her mom too when she drops her off. Same thing as far as discipline goes. She gets put in time out when she wont listen or follow the rules. Nothing over the top and treated fairly just like the other children. She has started clinging to her mom when she drops her off now and even wants to cry out the window when mom leaves. Her mom can be a softy with her and Im not that way. We have rules to follow and she has to follow them or goes in time out. I feel like she thinks Im mean too or that she doesnt like it here but she always tells her mom she had fun here when she goes home. LOL.

[grandmom]

Could I suggest a couple things?

1. Talk with mom - without him listening. Talk to her about HER being excited about daycare. "Yeah! it's a daycare day, you are going to have so much fun!" instead of "I have to go to work, you have to go to daycare" kinds of statements.

2. Let her know that he needs this before he goes to school. Talk about how what he learns with you will help him a lot in September.

3. Talk with him. He's old enough to have a conversation about your expectations when his mom is dropping him off. Good behavior gets a reward, bad behavior doesn't. Find something that will be his reward.

Yes, the school will appreciate the work you are doing with him.

[nannyde]

If they fuss at drop off I require the parent to do their goodbyes outside on my front porch and then signal me that they are done by knocking on the door. I then open the door and bring the child in WITHOUT the parent following.

This gets it to stop pretty quickly. It takes the "show" out of it if it's just the parent and the child alone outside. It doesn't feed into the parents esclating the behavior by trying to talk them out of it or feeling "sorry" for the kid.

I want that behavior to JUST be between them. The minute I open the door then my watch starts. The first day or two the kid will keep up the nonsense but usually by day three they just come in and go about their business.

The child usually does it as a last ditch effort to remain in control. When it's just the parent and child outside the child is still in control. Then the door opens and I'm in control. This method doesn't allow the child to ever be in control in my presence.

If they want to have a long crying and clinging good bye then they can have as long as they want outside. Usually the first day it will take a few minutes but the parent gets tired of it very quickly. It's amazing how quickly the whole thing stops when the child can't do it in front of you.

This method puts the ENTIRE process on their family. THEY have to deal with it. The parent can always take the kid back into the car and go back home if they feel it is too much for the child. They can do that all by themselves without involving me at all.

A lot of the drop off drama is encouraged by insecure parents. There is a part of the mother that wants to know their child doesn't want to separate from them. Even though they ACT like it bothers them there is a part of many mothers that feel validated if the kid doesn't want to leave them.

But... if they don't have an audience and they have to deal with ALL of it by themselves they grow weary of it very quickly.

Any time I have a kid do this more than three days total I start the goodbyes outside program and have them do it for a substantial time. If I allow the parent to bring the kid in at a later time and the kid starts it back up then we go back to outdoor good byes. That rarely happens. The most I usually have to do the outdoor good byes is a week or so.

I don't ask the parents whether or not they want to do this. I tell them that it's going to be done this way until the fussing stops. I don't talk to the parent at all when they do outdoor goodbyes. I just tell them I will call or text them once the child is settled down. By day three I'm able to video tape the child totally fine within a few minutes of the parent leaving. I then send the video to the parent.

The video is proof that the child has quit fussing and it's sent within a few minutes so there is no denying that it is that child that day within a few minutes of coming into the house.

Problem solved.

[misol]

If they fuss at drop off I require the parent to do their goodbyes outside on my front porch and then signal me that they are done by knocking on the door. I then open the door and bring the child in WITHOUT the parent following.

This gets it to stop pretty quickly. It takes the "show" out of it if it's just the parent and the child alone outside. It doesn't feed into the parents esclating the behavior by trying to talk them out of it or feeling "sorry" for the kid.

I want that behavior to JUST be between them. The minute I open the door then my watch starts. The first day or two the kid will keep up the nonsense but usually by day three they just come in and go about their business.

The child usually does it as a last ditch effort to remain in control. When it's just the parent and child outside the child is still in control. Then the door opens and I'm in control. This method doesn't allow the child to ever be in control in my presence.

If they want to have a long crying and clinging good bye then they can have as long as they want outside. Usually the first day it will take a few minutes but the parent gets tired of it very quickly. It's amazing how quickly the whole thing stops when the child can't do it in front of you.

This method puts the ENTIRE process on their family. THEY have to deal with it. The parent can always take the kid back into the car and go back home if they feel it is too much for the child. They can do that all by themselves without involving me at all.

A lot of the drop off drama is encouraged by insecure parents. There is a part of the mother that wants to know their child doesn't want to separate from them. Even though they ACT like it bothers them there is a part of many mothers that feel validated if the kid doesn't want to leave them.

But... if they don't have an audience and they have to deal with ALL of it by themselves they grow weary of it very quickly.

Any time I have a kid do this more than three days total I start the goodbyes outside program and have them do it for a substantial time. If I allow the parent to bring the kid in at a later time and the kid starts it back up then we go back to outdoor good byes. That rarely happens. The most I usually have to do the outdoor good byes is a week or so.

I don't ask the parents whether or not they want to do this. I tell them that it's going to be done this way until the fussing stops. I don't talk to the parent at all when they do outdoor goodbyes. I just tell them I will call or text them once the child is settled down. By day three I'm able to video tape the child totally fine within a few minutes of the parent leaving. I then send the video to the parent.

The video is proof that the child has quit fussing and it's sent within a few minutes so there is no denying that it is that child that day within a few minutes of coming into the house.

Problem solved.

Wow, this is very interesting. I like it this, but I wouldn't have the guts to implement it! I would think that it would come off to parents as too cruel. Also too, I am always worried about parents getting the feeling that I am rushing them out the door - I don't ever want them to think I have something to hide. I pay for this every day with a dad that stays like 15 minutes every morning at drop-off! AARRGGHH.

So what EXACTLY do you say to the parent on day 3? I'm thinking something like "Little Johnny seems to be having severe separation anxiety. We use the Outside Goodbyes program to make the transition smoother on all of us. It has a 100% success rate. Here's how it works..."

Also, am I safe in assuming that you have a covered porch?

[nannyde]

Wow, this is very interesting. I like it this, but I wouldn't have the guts to implement it! I would think that it would come off to parents as too cruel. Also too, I am always worried about parents getting the feeling that I am rushing them out the door - I don't ever want them to think I have something to hide. I pay for this every day with a dad that stays like 15 minutes every morning at drop-off! AARRGGHH.

So what EXACTLY do you say to the parent on day 3? I'm thinking something like "Little Johnny seems to be having severe separation anxiety. We use the Outside Goodbyes program to make the transition smoother on all of us. It has a 100% success rate. Here's how it works..."

Also, am I safe in assuming that you have a covered porch?

Nan
It's easy to explain. The issue is the transition away from the parent who the child controls to the adult the child doesn't control. It's important that the relationship where the control is imbalanced be dealt with by those who are participating in it.

I tell the Mom that the child needs to separate from her and it needs to be done privately. Take as long as you need. If it takes an hour and you need to inlist the help of a priest.... then do what you have to do. The minute you knock on my door you are sending me the message that you are completely assured that the child is ready to transition away from you. Don't knock until you feel comfortable... no matter how long that takes.

Once I open the door I'm assured that your child is ready. I take his hand and bring him thru the doorway and say "be good at work mommy... cya later" and shut the door.

It isn't cruel. It's promoting family bonding and the family dealing with their family issues privately. I shouldn't be involved in any way with their family challenges. I'm here to take care of a child who is ready to join group care without the influence of the power they have with their parents.

I would never allow a parent to hang out for fifteen minutes upon arrival. I don't host parents providing care for their children on site. If they have fifteen extra minutes they need to care for the child either outside or in their own home.

If the kid gets froggy and physcial with my outdoor area then I switch it to "do the departures in the care"... do not bring your child out of the car until you are completely done with your good byes. Again... bring them to the door and knock. Your knock confirms they are ready to enter the day care on their own. I don't allow them to "bring" anything into the day care with the child. Just the child.

It works great. The parent gets bored with it really quickly.

[Momma In MT]

I bribe with stickers. I tell the kids, when their parents are not around, that the next time they come, if they don't cry I will give them a sticker. It works every time. If they start to cry I tell them very quietly, remember our deal. If they stop right them I give them a sticker.

[QualiTcare]

i have a 1 year old who cries so of course i can't talk to him and the mom knows for sure i'm not mean to him. just today i texted a picture of him eating breakfast just as happy as could be to her within two minutes of her leaving. when she left he was screaming, snotting, the whole nine. i'm sure it made her feel better - i'd suggest doing that for any age kid.

[nannyde]

i have a 1 year old who cries so of course i can't talk to him and the mom knows for sure i'm not mean to him. just today i texted a picture of him eating breakfast just as happy as could be to her within two minutes of her leaving. when she left he was screaming, snotting, the whole nine. i'm sure it made her feel better - i'd suggest doing that for any age kid.

I don't use this technique with babies that young. I think maybe a little over two is the youngest I have done it with AND it's only for kids who have been in my care for a while. About half of them start getting the upperhand at home around this age and try to bring that on over to Nan's house.

With a baby that age it is just a quick toss em in the door and do the videotaping and send plan the day you get them to quit it quickly.

I had one sib group for six years. The older one did it around twoish and we did a week or so of the outdoor plan. When the younger one started it three/four years later the Dad said "oh no ya don't. I'm not doin that again. And handed me the kid and walked back down my front sidewalk." LOL

A couple of days of just bringing him straight in with no playing into it put a stop to it really quickly. The kid learned that Daddy wouldn't come in if he was pulling any nonsense. The Dad learned it was a big fat waste of time and unnecessary. Mission accomplished.

[Greenshadow]

Nan
It's easy to explain. The issue is the transition away from the parent who the child controls to the adult the child doesn't control. It's important that the relationship where the control is imbalanced be dealt with by those who are participating in it.

I tell the Mom that the child needs to separate from her and it needs to be done privately. Take as long as you need. If it takes an hour and you need to inlist the help of a priest.... then do what you have to do. The minute you knock on my door you are sending me the message that you are completely assured that the child is ready to transition away from you. Don't knock until you feel comfortable... no matter how long that takes.

Once I open the door I'm assured that your child is ready. I take his hand and bring him thru the doorway and say "be good at work mommy... cya later" and shut the door.

It isn't cruel. It's promoting family bonding and the family dealing with their family issues privately. I shouldn't be involved in any way with their family challenges. I'm here to take care of a child who is ready to join group care without the influence of the power they have with their parents.

I would never allow a parent to hang out for fifteen minutes upon arrival. I don't host parents providing care for their children on site. If they have fifteen extra minutes they need to care for the child either outside or in their own home.

If the kid gets froggy and physcial with my outdoor area then I switch it to "do the departures in the care"... do not bring your child out of the car until you are completely done with your good byes. Again... bring them to the door and knock. Your knock confirms they are ready to enter the day care on their own. I don't allow them to "bring" anything into the day care with the child. Just the child.

It works great. The parent gets bored with it really quickly.

You hit it right on the head....."The issue is leaving the parent that the child controls to the person the child doesnt control." Man, I wish I could explain it like that to the parent of the little girl I watch who throws a complete fit when her mom drops her off now!!!

[nannyde]

You hit it right on the head....."The issue is leaving the parent that the child controls to the person the child doesnt control." Man, I wish I could explain it like that to the parent of the little girl I watch who throws a complete fit when her mom drops her off now!!!

You can explain it in a way they understand.

I tell the parents that the child always feels more powerful and in control when they are with their parents especially with the Mama. When they are at home they are always in the mode of seeking the highest amount of power with their parents.

When they come to day care they are in a group of children so their individual power decreases. They are also not with their main power source: The Mama.

They HAVE to adjust between these two roles very quickly at drop off and pick up. I call it the "changing of the guard". This is when the child goes from them being the one in power to the provider being the one in power at drop off. At pick up it goes from the provider being in control to the child being in control.

If the child acts up at drop off it is a way to continue their power. The higher the escalation the lower the power the child feels in your home. The more they act up at drop off the more oppositional their power is in your care. So for the kids who are REALLY in control at home and really NOT in any kind of control at your house.. you are going to see fireworks of maximus proportions.

This is why I have them deal with it privately. It really IS between them and the child. I'm also offering the parent the opportunity to ONLY knock on my door to have the child come in when the child is READY. If the child does not get to READY then that's something the parent needs to decide and act upon it.

I refuse to play into a game that isn't real. The kid isn't being mistreated in my house. I have a really really good deal here but what I don't have is kids in charge of adults. It doesn't matter how sweet my deal is .. if that's what the kid is after then he will NEVER find that within the walls of my home. If that is the deciding factor of their happiness and the parent isn't going to bring them unless they are happy then it means we have reached the end of our relationship.

At that point I have nothing to loose but to tell the parent that they need to do the "outdoor bye bye plan" and get me completely out of the chaos. They hand me the kid when he is ready and if he is not ever going to be ready then it's time for them to move onto a situation where the kid is happy.

Having them do the good bye in your house.. the "transition" never works because the child remaining in power doesn't work. Some providers try distracting but the wise kid figures out that they only get a distraction for the time it takes to get the parent out the door. Distraction works a little bit for a short amount of time but what the child wants is a higher and higher amount of distractions and promises for distractions well after the parent has left. You end up having to do a dog and pony show in order for the kid to give up their power.

Nan don't play that.

No distractions... no transitional objects... no bargaining... no sympathy... no nuttin. I'm not going to pet an unstable mind set. There are just times in your life where you have to do things you don't want to do. It's okay for the kid to experience that and deal with it. It's not as "good" as being with their power source but it isn't a bad deal.

I have what I have to offer and if that's not what the kid is after they can hurry on down the road.

[professionalmom]

I had a DCM that would bring her child in at 7:30am, then sit for at least 15 minutes. Many times DCB was still sleeping and DCM would put him on the couch and rub his back to "comfort" him. He's asleep - LEAVE. When he wakes up, I will deal with it. However, this was also the parent that would have DCB here for 15 hour days (school and work) and feel guilty about the time away (dad long gone and out of the picture). Then this mom didn't want me to ever use a firm tone. She wanted me to pucker up and make the sad face and say, "Oh, (DCB), you hurt my feelings. That's not nice." Give me a break! No wonder he would give the whole show when she left - she was his puppet. It was understandable that he was upset - 2 yrs old and away from the only available parent for 15 hours a day! But then she made it worse by coddling him. Some parents just don't get it.

With a 4 year old, I would say that a conference with mom is in order. I had a 5 yr DCB and his 7 yr old brother. They both whined when they did not get their way. That is stopping as of this past weekend. They know the rules and I am tired of repeating myself. So, I put them in time-out without saying a word. No more broken record. And I told them that babies whine, not big boys, but if they want to continue whining I would have to put a diaper on them, just like babies (I would never do that, but it got the point across). I also explained that if they don't do it at home or at school, they can't do it here and if they did whine at school, everyone would call them babies. It is working so far with them. The parents are in complete support of these techniques because they know it is what is best for the boys.

[QualiTcare]

I don't use this technique with babies that young. I think maybe a little over two is the youngest I have done it with AND it's only for kids who have been in my care for a while. About half of them start getting the upperhand at home around this age and try to bring that on over to Nan's house.

With a baby that age it is just a quick toss em in the door and do the videotaping and send plan the day you get them to quit it quickly.

I had one sib group for six years. The older one did it around twoish and we did a week or so of the outdoor plan. When the younger one started it three/four years later the Dad said "oh no ya don't. I'm not doin that again. And handed me the kid and walked back down my front sidewalk." LOL

A couple of days of just bringing him straight in with no playing into it put a stop to it really quickly. The kid learned that Daddy wouldn't come in if he was pulling any nonsense. The Dad learned it was a big fat waste of time and unnecessary. Mission accomplished.

oh yea, i wasn't talking about doing the technique. that's what i was saying - you can't do it with babies, but sending a picture text is good/easy to do - especially if you think the parent is worried that their kid is gonna be crying forever. a simple picture sent within 2-3 minutes of the kid NOT crying - whatever age - makes the parent feel better.