HFM and Feces

[daycare]

So I have a DCB that was the only one who got HFM. The child was kept home for a good period of time, about 4 days. I understand that the HFM is no longer contagious as long as the fever is gone, but that it lingers in the feces????

well during our circle time this morning I asked the 3 year old to use the restroom. The child headed off before me and I finished the book. I went into the bathroom to assit. in that time, the child had gotten poop all over the bathroom. What I did not realize is that the child walked in it and then walked all over my house....UGH

So now I am wondering if I should hand clean the carpet or steam clean?? Also should I be concerned of it spreading??????

[Crystal]

Steam clean. Clean anything he may have touched with bleach....which is likely everything. Not only would I be concerned about HFM spreading, but other bacteria as well. YUCK!!!!!

[MarinaVanessa]

I agree with Crystal. I know that some resources say that HFMD isn't contageous after the fever is gone but that isn't always true.

My DS and nephew got it last November from a kids party place and even though the fever had broken I kept my DS quaranteened for an extra week after his bumps scabbed over and after his fever broke, my SIL did not.

I didn't accept my nephew back into my care even though his fever was gone so she sent him to his dads house and did not tell him that he had contracted HFMD. Mind you, his fever had already broken and his bumps were even almost all of the way gone (barely visible to the point that you'd think it was just a small bug bite and he only had 5 or 6 left). Well my nephews little brother got HFMD from him even though there was no fever. I'd be extremely careful.

[daycare]

Steam clean. Clean anything he may have touched with bleach....which is likely everything. Not only would I be concerned about HFM spreading, but other bacteria as well. YUCK!!!!!

Ugh.
I have a special carpet spray I got from our local hospital, it says 99.9 % is covered. Wonde what that 1% is that is not.

I guess I will have to do both because I can steam clean the carpets until after the kds leave.
Thanks for responding.
The bathroom has been. Bleached.

[daycare]

I agree with Crystal. I know that some resources say that HFMD isn't contageous after the fever is gone but that isn't always true.

My DS and nephew got it last November from a kids party place and even though the fever had broken I kept my DS quaranteened for an extra week after his bumps scabbed over and after his fever broke, my SIL did not.

I didn't accept my nephew back into my care even though his fever was gone so she sent him to his dads house and did not tell him that he had contracted HFMD. Mind you, his fever had already broken and his bumps were even almost all of the way gone (barely visible to the point that you'd think it was just a small bug bite and he only had 5 or 6 left). Well my nephews little brother got HFMD from him even though there was no fever. I'd be extremely careful.

how many days do you ask a family to keep a chld home when they have HFM??

[Countrygal]

Copied from Mayo Clinic site: "Although your child is most contagious with hand-foot-and-mouth disease during the first week of the illness, the virus can remain in his or her body for weeks after the signs and symptoms are gone. That means your child still can infect others."

[MarinaVanessa]

how many days do you ask a family to keep a chld home when they have HFM??

Unfortunately at least 10 days. That's how long I kept my DS quaranteed and he never passed it onto the other kids and that's how long I had my nephew stay out of my DC. It is extremely contageous and even though it isn't life threatening some of the symptoms are painfull (like the mouth sores) so I did everything in my power to prevent it from spreading.

[daycare]

I understand that it could be contagious still even though all the signs are gone, but what I was wondering is how many days or what is your requirement for reentry into the DC?

Like 4-6 days
Until scab over
Until all rash no longer visible????????

[Crystal]

This is what the California Child Care Health Program says about HFM:

http://ucsfchildcarehealth.org/pdfs/illnesses/HandFootMouth_0509.pdf

[Blackcat31]

I understand that it could be contagious still even though all the signs are gone, but what I was wondering is how many days or what is your requirement for reentry into the DC?

Like 4-6 days
Until scab over
Until all rash no longer visible????????

Exclusion is until fever is gone. Otherwise, no exclusion is required unless YOU make a different rule for your house.

http://www.hennepin.us/files/HennepinUS/HSPHD/Public%20Health%20Protection/Epidemiology/Daycare%20Manual/1340_s6HAND%20FOOT.pdf

[MarinaVanessa]

For HFMD I require at least 10 days. That's enough to cover the couple of days during the fever and sores, enough time for the sores to scab over and heal and I'm sure it's enough to make sure that it's out of their system to the point that they can't give it to another child.

In most cases the child has HFM and may already be contageous 5 days before their symptoms even appear. Once the symptoms appear it'll be a few days before the spots scab over.

It's important to remember that not all children show all of the signs of HFM but all children can be carryers and can spread it. For example, my DS (age 1 at the time) had the spots on his palms and feet and had a fever, he did not get sores in his mouth. My nephew (3 yrs) only had a few spots on his palms and feet (about 15 altogether), no fever, no mouth sores. My nephew gave it to his little brother (2 yrs old, same dad but different mom) and he got tons of spots on his palms, hands, soles of his feet, top part of his feet, and some on his arms and legs. He also got the fever and really bad sores on his mouth. My 3 yo nephew also came into contact with his older brother (10 yrs) who showed no symptoms at all ever and he briefly came into contact with a cousin (5 yrs) and that cousin got HFM too but only got the spots, no fever, no mouth sores. Maybe age has a lot to do with it but it goes to show how contageous it can be because my 3yo nephew was in contact with his older brother for only one afternoon before going to his dads house and 10 yo nephew was in contact with 5yo cousin for 30-45 minutes two days later. 5yo cousin and 3yo nephew were never in contact.

BTW None of my DCK's came down with it because I quaranteed my DS and my DD and even kept my DD home during this time. Only the kids that came into contact with my nephew or kids that came in contact with those that he came in contact with seemed to get it because he was allowed to be around the other kids and he was on his 2nd week after his first symptons showed up.

I suppose too that an older child could possibly be allowed back into DC as long as stringent hand washing etc was in place. The problem with 3yo nephew is that he constantly puts things in his mouth to chew on them (which is 1 reason why I wouldn't allow him back into DC) and HFM can be spread through mouthing toys. Kids who also put their fingers in their mouths, pick their noses, have runny noses etc. can also potentially be a risk to other kids even though their oozing bumps have scabbed over KWIM? You can always just keep it as a case-by-case basis. I require a Dr's note for clearance but it's never the deciding factor. I look at age, symptoms, diagnosis, conditions etc and then make my own decision about whether or not a child should stay or return to DC.

[daycare]

For HFMD I require at least 10 days. That's enough to cover the couple of days during the fever and sores, enough time for the sores to scab over and heal and I'm sure it's enough to make sure that it's out of their system to the point that they can't give it to another child.

In most cases the child has HFM and may already be contageous 5 days before their symptoms even appear. Once the symptoms appear it'll be a few days before the spots scab over.

It's important to remember that not all children show all of the signs of HFM but all children can be carryers and can spread it. For example, my DS (age 1 at the time) had the spots on his palms and feet and had a fever, he did not get sores in his mouth. My nephew (3 yrs) only had a few spots on his palms and feet (about 15 altogether), no fever, no mouth sores. My nephew gave it to his little brother (2 yrs old, same dad but different mom) and he got tons of spots on his palms, hands, soles of his feet, top part of his feet, and some on his arms and legs. He also got the fever and really bad sores on his mouth. My 3 yo nephew also came into contact with his older brother (10 yrs) who showed no symptoms at all ever and he briefly came into contact with a cousin (5 yrs) and that cousin got HFM too but only got the spots, no fever, no mouth sores. Maybe age has a lot to do with it but it goes to show how contageous it can be because my 3yo nephew was in contact with his older brother for only one afternoon before going to his dads house and 10 yo nephew was in contact with 5yo cousin for 30-45 minutes two days later. 5yo cousin and 3yo nephew were never in contact.

BTW None of my DCK's came down with it because I quaranteed my DS and my DD and even kept my DD home during this time. Only the kids that came into contact with my nephew or kids that came in contact with those that he came in contact with seemed to get it because he was allowed to be around the other kids and he was on his 2nd week after his first symptons showed up.

I suppose too that an older child could possibly be allowed back into DC as long as stringent hand washing etc was in place. The problem with 3yo nephew is that he constantly puts things in his mouth to chew on them (which is 1 reason why I wouldn't allow him back into DC) and HFM can be spread through mouthing toys. Kids who also put their fingers in their mouths, pick their noses, have runny noses etc. can also potentially be a risk to other kids even though their oozing bumps have scabbed over KWIM? You can always just keep it as a case-by-case basis. I require a Dr's note for clearance but it's never the deciding factor. I look at age, symptoms, diagnosis, conditions etc and then make my own decision about whether or not a child should stay or return to DC.

wow 10 days....have you ever had a DCP that you required to keep thier child home for this length of time? If so, what was their reaction.

I am super worried, I am having a party at my house this weekend and it just so happens that this child still mouths toys.. I will have to reclean everything again....ugh

See the only reason that I allowed DCB back was because the parents went to the doctors and the doctor stated that the child could return to care once the fever was gone. The child still has tons of blister all over the body that look horrible. Some are peeling and others are just red hot red. I am super worried now that my friend who is in her 90's maybe should not come to my house friday.........

I know that there is no proof of how long the virus lives on items outside of the body, but she already has a compromised immune system, as does my MIL......UGH

I guess this is one of the drawl backs of being an IN home daycare. Do you think that I should be worried about my friend and MIL coming over???

[MarinaVanessa]

wow 10 days....have you ever had a DCP that you required to keep thier child home for this length of time? If so, what was their reaction.

Other than my own DS and nephew getting it from the kids play place I havn't had it in my home ever. My SIL is a client and so I did prohibit her from bringing my nephew (paid) and she did have an issue with it until I reminded her that I gave her a special rate and that I wasn't asking her to to do anything other than what I normally expect from a regular client. I kept my own DS under quarantine with DH (he took time off of work) and kept DD home from school but we requested her school work and homework from her teacher who pretty much said not to worry about it and just have her read at home (I think she was worried that the papers would transmit it )

NONE of my daycare kids caught it even though my DS showed symptoms on the following Thursday and the DCK's were all here Monday through Thursday. Apparently I do a good job of disinfecting (I go crazy with bleach ). As soon as I noticed the little spots I called DH and he came home. I also noticed a couple of red spots on nephew and I called SIL and she picked him up. I kept my kids separated from other people and SIL did not even though I warned her ... that's how other kids caught it. If I had a DCK come up from it I'd do the same thing. I wouldn't expect my DC families to do something that my family wasn't willing to do KWIM? Of course I disinfected the toys that the DCK's played with everyday and anything that any child puts in their mouths I already autimatically put into a basket for "cleaning". My families were thankfull that I kept DS and DD separated and that I stayed open. If DH wouldn't have been able to take time off of work I would have closed.

I did notify all of my familes and a few of them still chose to keep their child home that Friday just in case (paid of course) but none did get sick thank goodness. Like I said, I'd take it as a case-by-case basis. If the sores are still icky and gooey and the stuff gets on DC stuff ... that's bad news waiting to happen. I'd at least wait until there is no fever and the spots are dried and scabbed over.

[SunshineMama]

Yikes! I feel bad that happened to you I had hfm outbreak a while back. Bleach kills it, Lysol does not. Steam clean the carpets, bleach what you can, and pray. I think I remember that it can live in feces 14-16 days after the onset, and once scabbed over isn't contageous to the touch (but still spread by feces). Hugs to you for having to go through this!