The Head Lice Story Part Two ... please read and give in put (long sorry)

[Blackcat31]

The word here is COMMUNICABLE. No different than if you said "Sure! Daycare kid who has Influenza A can attend, all other parents better bring their kids to play in his same space or pay up if they'd prefer to keep their child away until the threat passes."

There is no such universe in which that would ever make a stitch of sense to me.

I totally see your point but children are exposed to hundreds and thousands of things everyday in every place a parent, teacher, friend or guardian takes them. If someone at McDonald's has somehting, how do we KNOW that the child playing next to him doesn't have it too? We don't, so I think that what this provider is doing is the right thing. We cannot shield our kids from everything so we do the best we can.

Parents don't inform us of every little thing their child came in contact with at Wal-mart or anywhere else they go because there is NO WAY they could so who really knows what kind of communicable things get passed around and how.

It isn't like we can tell parents they can't bring their child to the grocery store in case they might pick up something super contagious. This is the same line of thinking as the sibling clause where if one kid is sick the other has to stay home too.....I personally just don't see how that can work when not everyone gets the same illnesses and people can be carriers without ever being sick.

Impossible to predict or tell who has and who hasn't, so the space is available and you pay for it whether you use it or not. If they weren't comfortable with that rule, they should never have agreed to sign it in the first place.

[Willow]

There is a case of lice but the children have NOT been exposed directly to it. The provider is simply informing the parent that there has been a case. Not that their child HAS come into contact with it.

How do you figure?

It's the providers child which means the entire house has been exposed.

I have extensive experience and training in lice and it's removal due to a previous place of employment and lice is contagious when a person comes into direct contact with items, people and places where there are live nits, eggs and bugs. (Contrary to popular belief, lice do NOT jump or fly.) Others aren't going to get it if the provider performs the required activites to eradicate the nits, eggs and bugs and is diligent in checking everyone upon admittance into care.

http://headlicecenter.com/

To say I too have "extensive experience and training in live and it's removal" too almost makes me laugh . Almost every single one of my foster children (14 total in the span of the last 6 years) has come with a case ranging from minor to severe. I've been down this road far too many times to even want to be reminded of...

If a kid in my home has it, my home has it too. Or at least that's how I believe the situation should be handled. I would never declare my home eradicated in a days time. More like a week, and that's IF after multiple head and house checks I find no more evidence of infestation.


I guess we have simply reached different conclusions.

[familyschoolcare]

I'm glad you're staying open minded.


Schools here (both where we lived before and where we live now) notify parents immediately both with an automated phone call AND with notes sent home from school if a single child is found to have it in the class room.

School nurse does daily checks of every child in that particular classroom until it's cleared as well as a single sweep of the entire school to identify if it's spread. Kids are sent home immediately if even so much as a single nit is found for a minimum of 48 hours and there has to be proof of treatment before they're allowed back.


It doesn't gross me out, and I get that it happens. 1st grade year school nurse sent my daughter home because of two measly nits and she was required to stay home for the required two days. It didn't bother me in the least if it meant keeping her from exposing it to other kids. I told my daycare parents and let them decide what they felt comfortable with. I'd NEVER force them to bring their kids into my home knowing what was going on or force them to pay (potentially losing their spot in my daycare if they decided to be cautious).


The word here is COMMUNICABLE. No different than if you said "Sure! Daycare kid who has Influenza A can attend, all other parents better bring their kids to play in his same space or pay up if they'd prefer to keep their child away until the threat passes."

There is no such universe in which that would ever make a stitch of sense to me.

If the schools here took this aprouch then I would feel and think differently about what I should do. Howeve, the fact is here in Santa Clara county child will get exposed to lice at school and the county has decied that is ok and is better than children missing school because of something that is not a health risk.

FYI--from the parent point of view on my side this is very fustrating because I can only do so much to keep my own child from getting it because she will be exposed to it at school.

[MarinaVanessa]

Lice IS highly contagious. Whether you've got a grip on it or not doesn't change that fact.


I don't think it's fair to force a parent to pay if they choose to keep their child home out of fear of threat of a communicable parasite -or- force them to go to your home and continue to subject that child to the risk.

Neither would be an acceptable option for me.

I realize it came from your child's school, is not your fault, and you're doing all you can but this isn't the parents fault either and you're essentially punishing them either way they decide for a situation they didn't create or have anything to do with.

But it isn't punishing at all, at least I don't see it that way. My policies are very similar in the sense that tuition is based on enrollment and not on attendance. If any child misses daycare for any reason whether illness, personal etc. there is no credit or reimbursement for that day. I do not charge by the day, it is a weekly rate and many providers choose to do it this way as well. If this policy is in the contract and the parents are aware and have signed the contract then it is their obligation to follow through with the agreement that they chose to sign and you can't punish someone by enforcing policies that they agreed to follow KWIM? That being said, I am sure that if the parents want to to they can look for childcare arrangements that do give credit for days missed.

Back to the OP. The letter good although I would have personally "softened it up" a little bit. To me it does sound a little harsh and I would have made the following minor tweaks.

[Beginning of letter]

Jason,

You are more than welcome to keep Gavin home from Day Care. Before, you make that final decision I think you should keep the following things in consideration.

1. If Gavin was exposed to head lice it was last week before I was aware of the situation. There is no guarantee that this child was here at the same time and day as Gavin or that the two of them interacted in a manner that would result in Gavin getting infected. Preventative measures are already in place for this situation and for other communicable diseases to prevent this sort of thing from spreading and now that I am aware of the situation I have taken measures to ensure that no other children are carriers and we have seen no signs of the lice being at my house.

2. I have dealt with this issue before, both from a teacher and a parents aspect, and I am aware of what can be done to prevent further infection. The last time I was faced with this issue (before the day care was open) it did not spread past the initial carrier.

3. All of the children that come into and my house attend a public school and that is most likely where the infected child contracted the lice and the school also has a protocol in place to reduce and prevent the further spread of lice.

I understand your concern from a parent's perspective and I respect your decision to keep Gavin home. I must remind you that as per ourcontract agreement your rate is paid weekly and is based on enrollment not on attendance and so any days missed are not deducted from the weekly fee. Our contract agreement states:

"This is a guaranteed rate, with no credit for non-attendance regardless of reason. Payments are due on Fridays for the following week."

Thank you for your understanding in this matter. If you have any more questions or concerns or if you decide to have Gavin attend afterall please don't hesitate to contact me.

[end if letter]

I took out #5 entirely because I thought it was going somewhere that it didn't need to go yet (cross that bridge when it comes sort of thing). If they bring up the "paying for the day that my child missed" again then you can address and remind them of #5 if it seems like they really don't want to pay for this day.

I suppose that for me my stance is that we as providers know what our policies are but most parents don't know or remember them all. Sometimes the parents try to pull a fast on on us but they are testing the boundaries and a simple courteous but firm reminder of the policies is all it takes to show them that you will not bend your policies KWIM? For me anyway, the letter in the OP sounded a little harsh and forceful which can sometimes create a bigger conflict (from a parent feeling attacked) when being firm yet polite can prevent and defuse these situations. But again, that's just me and that's just the way that I do things .

Good luck and don't forget to keep us posted.

[Willow]

I totally see your point but children are exposed to hundreds and thousands of things everyday in every place a parent, teacher, friend or guardian takes them. If someone at McDonald's has somehting, how do we KNOW that the child playing next to him doesn't have it too? We don't, so I think that what this provider is doing is the right thing. We cannot shield our kids from everything so we do the best we can.

Parents don't inform us of every little thing their child came in contact with at Wal-mart or anywhere else they go because there is NO WAY they could so who really knows what kind of communicable things get passed around and how.

The difference here is just that - that provider *knows* and the parents in those hypotheticals don't.

I'm not at all suggesting kids should live in bubbles, but when you're running a daycare preventing the spread of communicables should be a priority. Whether they are considered a mere nuisance or a major health threat, parents don't send their kids to daycare to bring home bugs of any kind any more than kids should be sent with the ability to bring them in.

The door should absolutely swing both ways.

Unless you as a provider are willing to take a child with an active head infestation (being treated or not) then you should also be understanding of why a parent shouldn't want to expose their child to that situation. You don't want your home and other kids exposed to it, they don't want theirs.

If they weren't comfortable with that rule, they should never have agreed to sign it in the first place.

Weren't comfortable with what rule? OP is just came up with this new policy last night I believe it was? Or at least the way it reads. As far as I know there wasn't any kind of lice policy stating a kid must continue to come even if the house has been exposed or pay if parents choose to keep them away until the threat passes.

OP, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Crystal]

While I think Dad is overreacting, I totally see Willow's point here. It IS the provider's child who has it....I imagine her child spends time in every part of the house and around the DCK as well....so they and the house have all been exposed to it.

As a provider, I would NEVER follow the school's line of handling this, as the OP feels is okay. I work for a profit.....my livelihood is at risk if I allow things like head lice to become an issue.....The school and the teachers aren't making a profit, they have, really, no vested interest in ensuring that headlice is not an issue. UNLESS they send the child home and don't allow them to come unless nit free.....because they only get paid if the child is in attendance.....so, of course, it is in the school's best interest to allow the child to stay.

[MarinaVanessa]

Weren't comfortable with what rule? OP is just came up with this new policy last night I believe it was? Or at least the way it reads. As far as I know there wasn't any kind of lice policy stating a kid must continue to come even if the house has been exposed or pay if parents choose to keep them away until the threat passes.

OP, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I am not the OP but I believe this is what you are referencing:

4. As per your contract you must pay me regardless of the reason that Gavin does not attend. See quote below.

"This is a guaranteed rate, with no credit for non-attendance regardless of reason. Payments are due on Fridays for the following week."

There is already a rule in place that states that the client must pay their weekly rate in full regardless of attendance or reason for absences. This is what the parents chose to sign and so they must abide by their choice to agree to the providers policies. This is in their contract already, not just something that she made up recently.

I think this is the point that Blackcat is trying to make.

Edited to Add: That being said, it is a difficult position to be placed in when you are a provider and it is your own child that has a symptom for exclusion. When my own children have been sick and have symptoms for exclusion I take preventative measures that go as far as my DH taking time off from work and he and my sick child(ren) being quarantined upstairs. None of them come into contact with me or any of the DC space or children/parents and that includes not coming downstairs at all for any reason including my DH. I cook for them, leave the meals at the top of the stairs, they eat it and place the dishes back, I collect them and wash them, wash my hands very well etc and I sleep downstairs and away from the quaranteened members of my family (I had to do this less than a year ago when my DS contracted HFMD). I also clean and disinfect everything including furniture, surfaces and toys. All soft toys, pillows, area rugs and blankets etc get washed each day etc. If it were lice I would do the same thing, if however I didn't have the option of DH staying with my sick child(ren) or of keeping them quarantined then I would close my DC until my child was well again and no longer contageous. For me I can always take up to 5 paid personal sick/personal days off to do this (but I have never used these days), if I had to stay closed longer than 5 days then I personally wouldn't charge my clients for these additional days.

[Lilbutterflie]

There are two very valid sides to this argument.

However, I think it all comes down to the OPs contract. Her contract states the parent pays for days that are not attended NO MATTER the reason. Therefore, I think the parent is still obligated to pay if they CHOOSE to keep their child home.

As for the letter, I think MarinaVanessa gave excellent advice and I too agree the original was a little harsh. I love her letter, it still gives the same valid points but it softens it up a bit.

[Blackcat31]

How do you figure?

It's the providers child which means the entire house has been exposed.


I figure because the OP said "1. If DCB was exposed to head lice it was last week before I was aware of the situation. There is no guarantee that this child was here at the same time and day as DCB or that the two of them interacted in a manner that would result in DCB getting infected. Now that I am aware of the situation it is under control at my house. We have seen no signs of the lice being at my house."

I can only go by the info she gives.

To say I too have "extensive experience and training in live and it's removal" too almost makes me laugh .

Sorry, but I am offended that you think I am being funny as I am not.

I have taken (more than once) an in-depth training certification course given by our local health department that trains us to check, identify and treat cases of lice properly. All of which credit (and a certificate) of this training is given. While working at Head Start we were exposed to some nasty situations, so I also think actual experience says alot as well.

At no time, did I make light of your comments, statements or knowledge.

Almost every single one of my foster children (14 total in the span of the last 6 years) has come with a case ranging from minor to severe. I've been down this road far too many times to even want to be reminded of...

I am quit familiar with the situations that foster children can bring into a home since I was raised with foster children as my parents were licensed foster parents for over 30 years and was a foster parent myself for a short time. Coupled with my 2 decades in child care as well as my years working in Head Start and with the Guardian Ad Litem agency, I too, have been down this road many many times as well.

If a kid in my home has it, my home has it too. Or at least that's how I believe the situation should be handled. I would never declare my home eradicated in a days time. More like a week, and that's IF after multiple head and house checks I find no more evidence of infestation.


I guess we have simply reached different conclusions.

Yes, I guess we have simply reached different conclusions which is a wonderful example of how there is a good fit for every family.

Child care providers all have the right to operate differently and in whatever manner works best for them.

Point being, the OP in this situation charges for space, whether the child uses it or not so the parent should have to pay.

[familyschoolcare]

But it isn't punishing at all, at least I don't see it that way. My policies are very similar in the sense that tuition is based on enrollment and not on attendance. If any child misses daycare for any reason whether illness, personal etc. there is no credit or reimbursement for that day. I do not charge by the day, it is a weekly rate and many providers choose to do it this way as well. If this policy is in the contract and the parents are aware and have signed the contract then it is their obligation to follow through with the agreement that they chose to sign and you can't punish someone by enforcing policies that they agreed to follow KWIM? That being said, I am sure that if the parents want to to they can look for childcare arrangements that do give credit for days missed.

Back to the OP. The letter good although I would have personally "softened it up" a little bit. To me it does sound a little harsh and I would have made the following minor tweaks.

[Beginning of letter]

Jason,

You are more than welcome to keep Gavin home from Day Care. Before, you make that final decision I think you should keep the following things in consideration.

1. If Gavin was exposed to head lice it was last week before I was aware of the situation. There is no guarantee that this child was here at the same time and day as Gavin or that the two of them interacted in a manner that would result in Gavin getting infected. Preventative measures are already in place for this situation and for other communicable diseases to prevent this sort of thing from spreading and now that I am aware of the situation I have taken measures to ensure that no other children are carriers and we have seen no signs of the lice being at my house.

2. I have dealt with this issue before, both from a teacher and a parents aspect, and I am aware of what can be done to prevent further infection. The last time I was faced with this issue (before the day care was open) it did not spread past the initial carrier.

3. All of the children that come into and my house attend a public school and that is most likely where the infected child contracted the lice and the school also has a protocol in place to reduce and prevent the further spread of lice.

I understand your concern from a parent's perspective and I respect your decision to keep Gavin home. I must remind you that as per ourcontract agreement your rate is paid weekly and is based on enrollment not on attendance and so any days missed are not deducted from the weekly fee. Our contract agreement states:

"This is a guaranteed rate, with no credit for non-attendance regardless of reason. Payments are due on Fridays for the following week."

Thank you for your understanding in this matter. If you have any more questions or concerns or if you decide to have Gavin attend afterall please don't hesitate to contact me.

[end if letter]

I took out #5 entirely because I thought it was going somewhere that it didn't need to go yet (cross that bridge when it comes sort of thing). If they bring up the "paying for the day that my child missed" again then you can address and remind them of #5 if it seems like they really don't want to pay for this day.

I suppose that for me my stance is that we as providers know what our policies are but most parents don't know or remember them all. Sometimes the parents try to pull a fast on on us but they are testing the boundaries and a simple courteous but firm reminder of the policies is all it takes to show them that you will not bend your policies KWIM? For me anyway, the letter in the OP sounded a little harsh and forceful which can sometimes create a bigger conflict (from a parent feeling attacked) when being firm yet polite can prevent and defuse these situations. But again, that's just me and that's just the way that I do things .

Good luck and don't forget to keep us posted.

Thank you for your in put and I have already made most of the changes to the letter/E-mail.

Just because I am enjoying the conversation this has started the two major things I was not comfortable saying was

1. "the school also has a protocol in place to reduce and prevent the further spread of lice"

Because, I do not consider the way the school handels this to be preventing the spread I actualy think the school is helping to spread it.

2. "I understand your concern from a parent's perspective"

Because, I do not understand his concern children get headlice and other things, it is part of being a child.


Any way with all that being said if anyone has any other constructive in put about the letter itself please give it soon as I will soon be sending it out via E-mail will send it certified mail if I have not gotten a response by 9:00 Am on Friday.

[Willow]

I am not the OP but I believe this is what you are referencing:


There is already a rule in place that states that the client must pay their weekly rate in full regardless of attendance or reason for absences. This si what the parents chose to sign and so they must abide by their choice to agree to the providers policies. This is in their contract already, not just something that she made up recently.

Again, I think it's an issue of ethics and common sense.

As a parent I would never assume that policy would apply to a situation like this.

Every morning I am required to make sure my house is suitable to provide care. In the case of lice, it wouldn't be suitable, and parents shouldn't be penalized for that.

Unless there was a specific lice policy in place I couldn't imagine being forced (and I'll continue to use that word as that's exactly how I see it as would parents with any sort of budgeted income) to either bring my child and risk exposure or pay someone else to watch them while also having to pay the original providers home, that I would for the time being, deem unavailable until the house and occupants have been cleared of the parasites.


No different than if the provider came down with some other sort of communicable something or other. But I also refuse to charge for time I'm not actually working, so that could be where that line of thinking comes from.

[familyschoolcare]

Again, I think it's an issue of ethics and common sense.

As a parent I would never assume that policy would apply to a situation like this.

Every morning I am required to make sure my house is suitable to provide care. In the case of lice, it wouldn't be suitable, and parents shouldn't be penalized for that.

Unless there was a specific lice policy in place I couldn't imagine being forced (and I'll continue to use that word as that's exactly how I see it as would parents with any sort of budgeted income) to either bring my child and risk exposure or pay someone else to watch them while also having to pay the original providers home, that I would for the time being, deem unavailable until the house and occupants have been cleared of the parasites.


No different than if the provider came down with some other sort of communicable something or other. But I also refuse to charge for time I'm not actually working, so that could be where that line of thinking comes from.

What???

What is not suitablenfor my house to provide child care.

Maybe you missed to key points here.

I was not aware of the situation untill the weekend when no daycare children where here and the house was cleaned and all preventaive messure taken under the old guidlines to prevent the spread.

FYI the new guidlines for a school or day care center (not a family home) is to do nothing because the lice can not live with out a host form more then 48 hours and since the children are gone from more than that every weekend not cleaning is needed.

[Willow]

Sorry, but I am offended that you think I am being funny as I am not.

I never said I thought you were being funny. Nor did I think you were making light of what I'd gone through.

All I said was:

"To say I too have "extensive experience and training in live and it's removal" too almost makes me laugh ."


Recalling what I went through with the kids that came in with it, with my own kids in preventing the spread to them, with what I had to do with my home to keep everyone free of it, with how I had to handle visitors, and those that handled the kids in my care outside of our home...I *have* to laugh. If I didn't I'd cry. It's an incredibly overwhelming thing to recall.

I lived and breathed it plenty enough to ever want to take any sort of class on it, although I'm glad there are others that do. They're exactly who prevent the spread and the exact situations in the past I'd just as soon forget! Bless your heart! (no joke, anything and anyone to keep it from getting back into my house...) I just choose to look back and make light of those times rather than let the memories upset me is all.

[Willow]

What???

What is not suitablenfor my house to provide child care.

Maybe you missed to key points here.

I was not aware of the situation untill the weekend when no daycare children where here and the house was cleaned and all preventaive messure taken under the old guidlines to prevent the spread.

FYI the new guidlines for a school or day care center (not a family home) is to do nothing because the lice can not live with out a host form more then 48 hours and since the children are gone from more than that every weekend not cleaning is needed.

I'm not sure what guidelines you're referring to.

I prefer to reference the CDC for national guidelines over county ones as I tend to take a conservative route for treatment of all communicables.

They certainly don't recommend doing NOTHING. Not only do they recommend treatment but REtreatment as well as no one anti-parasitic is completely ovicidal. Treatment needs to be spread out over the course of a couple of days.

If you're interested:

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/lice/head/treatment.html

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/lice/head/prevent.html

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/lice/head/health_professionals/index.html

Although they don't support "no-nit" policies in schools they are obviously strong advocates for taking a hard line on treatment and preventing the spread.

[MarinaVanessa]

Thank you for your in put and I have already made most of the changes to the letter/E-mail.

Just because I am enjoying the conversation this has started the two major things I was not comfortable saying was

1. "the school also has a protocol in place to reduce and prevent the further spread of lice"

Because, I do not consider the way the school handels this to be preventing the spread I actualy think the school is helping to spread it.

2. "I understand your concern from a parent's perspective"

Because, I do not understand his concern children get headlice and other things, it is part of being a child.


Any way with all that being said if anyone has any other constructive in put about the letter itself please give it soon as I will soon be sending it out via E-mail will send it certified mail if I have not gotten a response by 9:00 Am on Friday.

I can see why you are not comfortable with #1 because obviously your schools don't handle lice the same way that schools in my area handle them. Here too if one child is seen "scratching" they are sent to the nurses office for a private lice check. If lice is found the child stays in the office and a parent is called and the child stays home for a mandatory 48 hours. The other children in the class are then checked one by one using the same process. If more than one child in the class has it, all parents get a letter. If more than one child has lice in two different classrooms then the whole school gets a note. Infested children must go into the office for another check the first day after the 48 hours to make sure that the lice and nits are gone etc.

Maybe instead of adding the stuff about the school you can insert information about what measures you have taken to ensure that there are no lice in your home like vacuumed/shampooed all soft furniture like chairs and sofas. Wiped down, dusted and disinfected all surfaces and hard toys. Laundered all area rugs, bedding, plush animals, curtains, laundry and pillows in hot water and dried in high heat for a minimum of 50 minutes. Sprayed mattresses and large furniture with lice spray (don't forget about your vehicles). Steam cleaned the carpet. Treated DS with lice shampoo with 2 treatments, checked and combed DS's hair several times a day to ensure that there are no more lice etc.

As for #2 just keep in mind that all you're really saying is that you understand that they have a need to feel like they have a right to keep their child home, which they do. That's all you're saying. You're not agreeing to their choice, you are just acknowledging that they have a right to do as they wish (keep their child home). You have already addressed in your note that they aren't going to get a "break" in the weekly fee.