When Your Opinion On Safety Conflicts With Parents....

[Willow]

My apologizes in advance as I'm sure this is going to get quite long. I am soooooo glad I found this site last night. After hitting many stumbling points while setting up my daycare again after I moved I hit a GIANT one last night and I had no clue where to turn.

I liked what I read, you all seem to get it beyond what family and friends can. I am hoping you can help me sort out what happened last night so I know how to handle the situation if it ever occurs again (or just the mom in general as I'm really struggling with her right now).

I have a family who moved up here a couple of months ago. Long story short, the kids (4 and 2) are just nasty to mom during pick up and drop off. The 2 year old thinks it's great fun to literally haul off on her, kicking and punching her, to which she usually does nothing but reply to my shock and horror with a "he never did that before he started coming here," as if her sons violence towards her is all my fault. Although the two are very co-dependent on each other, they rarely misbehave beyond typical age appropriate bickering here. I can count on one hand how many times I've had to give either a time out or talking to (with the exception of setting the 2 year old down when he hauls off on mom every morning to cool off before he joins the group). Beyond that never a problem....they eat well, play great and nap nicely....until pick up time. At which point 2 year old will resume his beating on mom because she's not dad picking him up instead and neither will get into the vehicle to leave. They will race around the house, or if we are outside just blatantly ignore that she's even there. When she literally picks one up and puts them in the vehicle and goes to grab the other the first one will jump out and run off. It's chaos every single day, and I'm shocked at how rude and defiant they become because it's the complete opposite of how I know them to be.

So last night the same pick up hub-bub ensues. She puts the one in the van, he proceeds to take the keys out of the ignition and fart around with the buttons in the vehicle as she's off wrangling the other off the swings. Sets her down to buckle him in, shuts the door, goes the wrangle the other one off the swings again only to discover...2 year old is locked in the vehicle, buckled in, and her keys are inside on the floor.

I. freaked. out.

I love these kids. It was in the mid to high 70's and the van was parked in the sun. After taking a few deep breaths I asked her who we should call, locksmith, law enforcement.... Instead she starts *hollaring* at the 2 YEAR OLD to unbuckle his car seat and unlock the car himself. I've buckled him in there myself when she couldn't get a grip on them. The button is hard for me to get. I knew he sure as heck couldn't undo it. So again I asked, locksmith, law enforcement, fire dept.... "NO, that's too expensive and embarrassing." At that point he was already dripping sweat and all I could think was what on earth is wrong with a mother who won't set her pride aside and get some freaking help for the safety of her own kid???? She wanted to wait until her husband got off work at 6:30 and made the hour drive here. It was 5:15

I told her waiting that long doing nothing was completely unacceptable, to which she sat on my front step prepared to just wait it out. I called my soon to be brother in law who is on the local fire department and he rushed out. He was able to pop a window so at least there was air flow and the sun starting to set behind the house created some shade. He reassured me kiddo was ok while he worked on trying to unlock the doors. I trust him 100%. If I didn't or thought kiddo was in any immediate danger I would have busted the window out myself regardless of what anyone thought. He worked on it coming so close so many times to triggering the switch for nearly an hour and a half....until she griped at him not to damage her vehicle. Then he figured her husband was close enough and decided to leave before things got heated. I thanked him for trying, she didn't say another word to him. Meanwhile she also wasn't saying a word to kiddo in the car. She was angry AT HIM and was disappointed he wasn't upset that he was stuck inside. Dad shows up around 7, unlocks the door, mom unbuckles kiddo and is there relief and joy and hugs? Nope. They completely ignore him letting him run off to my swingset and proceed to scream at each other in my driveway for the next 10 minutes (keep in mind my own kids are in the house - my son having stayed home from school for the day because of a lovely fever that I couldn't get the break - dinner still isn't made and my dogs still haven't been let out since morning). Dad is hollaring that mom is a moron, mom is yelling at dad that it's all kiddos fault and further more his because he didn't answer his phone sooner....I. Was. Gobsmacked.

Meanwhile I checked over kiddo and got him a drink. His sister ran around outside like this was completely normal everyday routine. After 10 minutes with no end in sight I told them it was time to go, that I needed to take care of my family. Same hub-bub that happens day in day out at pick up time ensued again with them running away from her (dad had taken off when I told them to move on). After a few minutes she finally got them loaded and took off too. No apologies, no thank you's, NOTHING.

When she dropped them off this morning and the two year old punched her again I got the "I don't know why he does this ever since he started coming to your house, he NEVER behaved so horribly before." Then was irritated because I let her know that he's going to need more diapers by weeks end (she gets mad that I change him more than twice in a 9 1/2 hour day) and that she still needs to bring sunscreen as we are all stuck inside with the two years olds fair skin until she does. I refuse to let kids just burn or tan (as she would prefer).



I am so done with the bologna. If I could use a much stronger word I would. Hindsight is 20/20. Looking back I sooooooo regret not taking better charge of last night. She intimidates the heck out of me, and I'm not at all sure why. I do adore the kids, and I'd worry about them if I have to send them packing but the way mom acts is COMPLETELY irrational, snarky, and unacceptable. I can handle the 5 minute drop off and pick ups for the sake of the kids, but last night was overload and I considered terminating them on the spot. I get accidents happen, but the way she handled it just blew my mind....still does.


Please if you would keep the roar about me being a moron about last night to a minimum it would be appreciated. I'm already infinitely disappointed in myself for not being a better advocate for the kiddo. What I'm wondering is do I terminate over what happened? Do I charge her for the time she was stuck here? Do I try to talk to her about it and let her know why I was so disappointed and disgusted with the way she acted? Do I **** it up and just address it differently if something like that happens again in the future? Is there anything I can add to my policies that'll protect my decisions in regards to such a matter? It was her car, but on my property, would I have been liable if they'd have needed to bust out a window?


Any advice, insight or whatever anyone might have to offer as to how to deal with this would be very much appreciated.

[SunshineMama]

Oh my goodness! I am so sorry!

Are you able to address your issues directly? Will it make any difference?

I know that I personally use a ton of diapers! 2 diapers in 9 hours is not enough- I use at least 4! And the hot car would scare me to death!

Try to address your issues professionally- it sounds like these poor kids need your help. If you can't make a difference and nothing changes, give them a written warning, then if they still dont listen, it is time to start looking for a replacement.

Glad you found the forum! For me personally, I have learned a TON here and have gotten so much stronger as a person and a provider.

[Heidi]

wow...just wow!

No, you won't get any flack from me on that. I am sure you were dealing with enough without being made to feel like you did something wrong.

If you can't call a meeting with mom AND dad, together, with no kids, and lay down the law, it the most respectful, professional way, then type up a termnation letter (there are several on this site if you do a search), and get them out.

We all become attached to our dc kids, and we want to save the world, but you cant.



Good luck!

[Meeko]

You have a several choices.

1) Lay down the law. Sit her down and go over the rules and your expectations. Her parenting style is her business at home....but at YOUR house, it's YOUR rules.. Nicely but firmly let her know that the snarky remarks, wild kids etc is no longer acceptable. She is to work out what to do with the kids. I would maybe suggest taking the small one out, put it his car seat and then return for the other one. She is to carry them or have a FIRM grip on them. No running, fighting etc. House to car. No running or playing.

2) Just term. Tell her you are done and why.

3) Grin and put up with it.

None are particularly nice or easy. But decide what you can or can't live with and go from there.

[Blackcat31]

Please if you would keep the roar about me being a moron about last night to a minimum it would be appreciated. I'm already infinitely disappointed in myself for not being a better advocate for the kiddo. What I'm wondering is do I terminate over what happened? Do I charge her for the time she was stuck here? Do I try to talk to her about it and let her know why I was so disappointed and disgusted with the way she acted? Do I **** it up and just address it differently if something like that happens again in the future? Is there anything I can add to my policies that'll protect my decisions in regards to such a matter? It was her car, but on my property, would I have been liable if they'd have needed to bust out a window?


Any advice, insight or whatever anyone might have to offer as to how to deal with this would be very much appreciated.

You are NOT a moron but it kinda sounds like this mom might be a real candidate!

What you do is tell mom under no circumstances EVER from now on will pick up (or drop off) ever be a three ring circus as it was last night! If she needs to take one child out at a time while you physically hold the other then so be it but never again should the children be allowed to gain the attention and hub bub they did last night.

I would tell her that she MUST be able to maintain and control her children while on your property or she will be terminated.

I highly suggest that you read NannnyDe's blog about the changing of the guard and her "Buh Bye Outside" program....works wonders for parents like this. https://www.daycare.com/nannyde/the-...in-daycare.htm

Safety is NEVER something I am closed mouthed about. I do NOT tolerate parents who cannot parent their child and will absolutely take charge if and when I have to.

((((Hugs)))) to you for having to go through this but seriously read Nan's blog about this and you will see ways to fix it easily.

[Crystal]

Wow, what an awful mess. For the future, if something like that happens, call the fire department....9-1-1.....if something bad happened, you would 1. lose your business and 2. never forgive yourself. Mom saying No was not up to her....your house, your liability issues.

As for Mom blaming you that her child never hit her like that, etc. before he started coming to you....NO WAY.....STOP HER COLD!!!!! I would ask her point blank exactly what she means by that. I would tell her, very matter-of-factly that her child ONLY behaves this way when SHE is around and if SHE tries to blame me one more time she will lose child care services immediately.

The running around, refusing to leave, etc.....I would, today at pick up, have them sitting down and ready to go when she got there. I would talk to them about my expectations for their behavior when their mother is present and that if they do not do as expected there will be consequences. I would, as soon as mom got there, take both children by the hand, walk them to mom, hand them off and tell her that I expect her to get her children to the car, without chaos and in a 100% safe manner. If she does not, I would tell her not to bring them back.

I have said it before and I will say it again....I am not one to term for most reasons, but when it comes to being disrespected by a parents (to the extent this mom is disrespecting you), having MAJOR safety concerns due to a lack of guidance and discipline on the parents part and my business and livelihood put at risk, then there is no choice but to put an end to the arrangement.

I promise you you can do this. You CAN stand up to this woman and DEMAND her respect and compliance with your rules and you CAN term if she refuses to do so. DO IT TODAY!!!!

Good luck happyface

[cheerfuldom]

wow...just wow!

No, you won't get any flack from me on that. I am sure you were dealing with enough without being made to feel like you did something wrong.

If you can't call a meeting with mom AND dad, together, with no kids, and lay down the law, it the most respectful, professional way, then type up a termnation letter (there are several on this site if you do a search), and get them out.

We all become attached to our dc kids, and we want to save the world, but you cant.



Good luck!

absolutely this. You need a total turn around from these parents in order to make it work and there is a very, VERY slim chance that that will ever happen, no matter what you say or how many meetings you have. I really think that for your own safety and for the future, now is the time to let them go before something really awful happens.

[Willow]

Holy cows thank you for the support.

Although the thought of discussing it with mom makes me want to barf we are so going to do the "Buh Bye Outside" program effective immediately.

I like that I'll at that point be able to reaffirm the kiddos are never out of control in my presence. I hope it drives home to her that their issues with her are with her and her alone and have nothing to do with me. I think separating myself from them completely when they're like that might help her connect the dots a little easier.


I will respond more after they go home when I've got more time.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU all again......

[LittleD]

You are NOT a moron but it kinda sounds like this mom might be a real candidate!

What you do is tell mom under no circumstances EVER from now on will pick up (or drop off) ever be a three ring circus as it was last night! If she needs to take one child out at a time while you physically hold the other then so be it but never again should the children be allowed to gain the attention and hub bub they did last night.

I would tell her that she MUST be able to maintain and control her children while on your property or she will be terminated.

I highly suggest that you read NannnyDe's blog about the changing of the guard and her "Buh Bye Outside" program....works wonders for parents like this. https://www.daycare.com/nannyde/the-...in-daycare.htm

Safety is NEVER something I am closed mouthed about. I do NOT tolerate parents who cannot parent their child and will absolutely take charge if and when I have to.

((((Hugs)))) to you for having to go through this but seriously read Nan's blog about this and you will see ways to fix it easily.

I LOVE changing of the guard, but in this case, I'm not sure it would work. The mother will still let these kids run wild all over her property. I think they need to address the disrespect towards the mother.

I think she's full of it about never doing that before. Did you see total shock on her face the first few times it happened? If she was like OMG what are you doing? with total bewilderment on her face, it MAY be possible, but I doubt it.

TAKE CHARGE! The mother won't and it is your house your rules. Grab the child of of mom, look him/her in the eyes and say NO! This is not acceptable behavior. Until you calm down, go sit in the (time out-or whatever) chair. TELL the mom, what happens at your house is your business, but here, you need to take charge of your kids. Have her bring one out at a time. If the seat belts are that secure, buckle one, then come back for the other (Keys in pocket of course) Tell her disrespect of that magnitude is not allowed at your house, and it will rub off on the other kids (been there, done that)

Good luck!

[daycare]

you might want to check with your insurance and LIC company about the liability that you are in if they are still on your property.

With my daycare insurance, they are my responsibility until they are under in their car and backing out of the driveway. if the kids are out of the house and running aorund the house or front yard area and slip and fall, I am still liable.

I agree with holding on to one, letting mom get them secured into the car and then the other one. Just cutting them lose to the mom outside will not stop you from being liable,so I think.

I don't know if I would be able to deal with a family like this.... LIke crystal said. they put your entire business at jeopardy last night. I would never want someone to put me in this situation once and if they did I sure would not give them the chance to do it again...

Welcome to the form

[Blackcat31]

I LOVE changing of the guard, but in this case, I'm not sure it would work. The mother will still let these kids run wild all over her property. I think they need to address the disrespect towards the mother.

I think she's full of it about never doing that before. Did you see total shock on her face the first few times it happened? If she was like OMG what are you doing? with total bewilderment on her face, it MAY be possible, but I doubt it.

TAKE CHARGE! The mother won't and it is your house your rules. Grab the child of of mom, look him/her in the eyes and say NO! This is not acceptable behavior. Until you calm down, go sit in the (time out-or whatever) chair. TELL the mom, what happens at your house is your business, but here, you need to take charge of your kids. Have her bring one out at a time. If the seat belts are that secure, buckle one, then come back for the other (Keys in pocket of course) Tell her disrespect of that magnitude is not allowed at your house, and it will rub off on the other kids (been there, done that)

Good luck!

I do agree there is some major disrespect going on here but I also think the first thing she needs to address is the fact that the provider is NOT responsible for the children's bad behavior, which is why I suggested the Buh Bye Outside program....teach mom FIRST that SHE is the one responsible for the bad behaviors. kwim?

I also agree that I would personally nip this one in the bud immediately but I also understand that not everyone is that "up front" and in-your-face kind of people so I suggested an easier way to get the point across as to who is to blame for the bad behavior from the kiddos.

you might want to check with your insurance and LIC company about the liability that you are in if they are still on your property.

With my daycare insurance, they are my responsibility until they are under in their car and backing out of the driveway. if the kids are out of the house and running aorund the house or front yard area and slip and fall, I am still liable.

Good point Daycare! Check with your insuance.

In my case however, I am NO longer responsible once the parent steps foot on my property. I have a notice that lets parents know this and lets them know right away that THEY are the ultimate authority and if it should happen that they are unable to control their child while on my property I will term them immediately.

I don't take safety issues lightly and will be forward, opinionated, upfront and very vocal about these issues to my DCP so they are all fully aware of what I expect from them and their children.

So yes, good advice, check with you insurance OP and make sure you are not responsible if the parent is present and if you are, I would lay down the law so that this mom knows you mean business.

[SunshineMama]

you might want to check with your insurance and LIC company about the liability that you are in if they are still on your property.

With my daycare insurance, they are my responsibility until they are under in their car and backing out of the driveway. if the kids are out of the house and running aorund the house or front yard area and slip and fall, I am still liable.

I agree with holding on to one, letting mom get them secured into the car and then the other one. Just cutting them lose to the mom outside will not stop you from being liable,so I think.

I don't know if I would be able to deal with a family like this.... LIke crystal said. they put your entire business at jeopardy last night. I would never want someone to put me in this situation once and if they did I sure would not give them the chance to do it again...

Welcome to the form

Scary but a very good point!

A good reminder that I need to have a more watchful eye when the kiddos head out the door! I have twin sibs that love to run all over the place. The last thing I want is for something to happen to them!

[Willow]

Progress!

You're right black cat, I am so non-confrontational it's not even funny and in the past that's bitten me in the butt. I do need to find a way to either get over that or work around it.

Tonight I did do the changing of the guard bit. I talked at length with the kids about the idea and we practiced it. We spent time decorating a spot for each of them on the steps leading up to the front door with chalk. They each had their name and little pictures. We talked about when we saw moms van running to those spots and holding my hand as mom pulled in. When we spotted her coming the two year old balked with his "I'm not sure I'm going to go along with this" smile that he always gives mom but a stern "NO, get to your spot or I'll pick you up and put you there" changed his mind and he toddled right there on his own. They sat happily as she pulled in. When she approached they were quiet as I explained the new process...woot! She laughed and said it wasn't going to work. I ignored her completely and asked them who was going first. 4 year old said 2 year old could start today and they'd take turns. I walked him down the steps and he wouldn't let go of my hand until I walked him all the way to her. She strapped him in, shut the door and asked the 4 year old to "come on." 4 year old instead took my hand and let me walk her all the way to mom at the van, hopped in and buckled right up. I fibbed and said after review of my insurance policy I can't have what happened last night ever happening again. That this is how we'll do pick up and drop off because it'll keep things more controlled and safe for everyone here. Rain or shine it'll work at pick up and drop off because they're the first ones dropped off and last ones picked up, and the entrance deck is covered. She looked uncomfortable (or put off) and mentioned defensively again how the two year old has never acted like this before coming to my house. Instead of being confrontational and nasty back (like I so wanted to) I told her it was my job to keep order at my house and during transition times and this was my solution for her. As long as he's never naughty anywhere else as she says then this should nip the only minor problem she's got with him. I also asked her if she wanted me to just pick up sunscreen for them on my own and stick it on her invoice this weekend. She wasn't at all happy with that idea and swore she'd have it for them tomorrow. I then waved goodbye to the kids, said see you in the morning to her with a sickening amount of cheery-ness in my voice and then went back in the house.

Was THE BEST pick up I've ever had with them

I will be waiting to snag them on the step one at a time in the morning whether she likes it or not. If she doesn't cooperate I'll meet them right at the van. That way if 2 year old starts to get bucky I can just pick him up and go inside. He can say his goodbyes at the van or wave goodbye through the living room window after he's got his shoes off. If he throws a fit he'll miss his chance and knowing him it'll only take once, at best. I think that'll be a good transition for him and it'll keep the chaos out of my house.

I feel like I've got my power back! I'm not sure if it'll last but it's a start. If this doesn't work then I'll go from there but for now at least I feel loads better about having a plan

Thanks again everyone! I cannot tell you all what it means to feel like I found my voice in regards to this woman. Scratching my head with no solutions left me so helpless, having something to do and try...I feel competent as a provider again HA!

[sharlan]

Great, I'm glad it worked out for you tonight.

Mom DOES NOT want this to work. She wants you to know that she's in control of her kids and YOU are the cause of her problems. Much easier to blame daycare than accept your failings as a parent.

[Meyou]

Yay! Good luck this morning and good for you for not letting Mom blame her children's behavior on your again.