Drunk at Pick-Up Time

[MarinaVanessa]

Okay maybe it's just me but I'm a mandated reporter and I'm forced to legally and morally to report anything like this. I'd simply tell the parent that I don't feel comfortable releasing the child to a person that is intoxicated and that he needs to find someone else to come by and pick the child up. Technically I didn't say that I wasn't releasing the child, only that I didn't feel comfortable doing it. If he argues, I'd tell him that if he takes the child anyway I will be forced to call the police and give the license plate number, discription of the car, home address and all of the parent's information (which all of us should have in our files) to report a drunk driver and child endangerment AND then that call will be followed by a call to Child Protective Services. If he still gives me a problem I'd hand him my telephone and tell him to call the police on me and ask him to wait until they arrived then ask him if he changed his mind and would like to call someone to pick them both up.

I mean, what's a person that's been drinking going to do? Call the police on me for kidnapping? I never said I wasn't releasing the child, I just said I didn't recommend it. If I call the police myself while the parent is there because the parent has been drinking and wants to take his child and drive I'd have him explain that to the police himself. Have him take a breathalizer. My excuse? I'm required by law to report SUSPECTED child abuse or endangerment to the authorities. Once the police showed up I'd explain to them that I never said I wouldn't release the child. Granted I better be prepared to lose this client but I'd rather lose a child as a client than to lose a child because he got in an accident and dies.

[Janet]

A bad situation...

There's no easy way out of that one. Every fiber of my being would want to keep the child with me but I really don't want to be brought up on kidnapping charges. That being said, I wouldn't keep the parent from taking their child, but I would stall like crazy and call the police immediately. I would try to give the police enough time to get to my house before the parent had a chance to drive off. I would also call child protective services because if a parent will pick up their child from daycare drunk or high, who knows what goes on behind closed doors?

[Chickenhauler]

That's been a rule in every daycare I've worked at. You cannot legally keep a child from their parent if they are drunk. You can request that you call someone else to pick them up, but if they say 'No" you have to let them go. And then call the police.

I think it's terrible. I told my husband that rule one night and he was outraged. What kind of world do we live in?

I agree how crazy of a rule it is. I would for sure contact your licensing consultant (if you are licensed) or the state to see what your state laws are. For sure call the police and report him as a drunk driver not only for the safety of the child but everyone else on the road!

Laws vary from one state to another, and if I recall correctly, in MN, we are not permitted to release a child into the care of a drunken driver.

That's the legal side....anyone want to talk about liability here?

Dad picks up child in an inebriated condition. Dad heads down road, blows stop sign, T-bones someone, child is killed (drunks almost always survive for some reason). Toxicology report shows that Dad was WAAAYYYY over the legal limit.

Mom is irate that you released child into drunken drivers care.
Mom sues you for negligence.
You lose.
Big time.

You now live in a cardboard box under the bridge.

Still thinking about releasing that child to a drunk driver?



Ask yourself this....would you let YOUR child get in that car?

Then why are you letting this child get in that car?

[professionalmom]

I was wondering about liability too. Thanks, Chickenhauler, for bringing that up. My husband brought up, "what if the parent only had a 1 drink and is not legally drunk. You just got CPS called on someone who was perfectly fine to drive." I told him that it is not my job to "investigate" the situation, just to report it. Just like I can't say he's over the limit, I can't guarantee that he's under the limit, either.

You can always argue or justify your way out of a legal mess, but you can't argue or justify someone back to life.

[grandmom]

Chickenhauler,

You've convinced me to change my mind. Thank you.

[nannyde]

Laws vary from one state to another, and if I recall correctly, in MN, we are not permitted to release a child into the care of a drunken driver.

That's the legal side....anyone want to talk about liability here?

Dad picks up child in an inebriated condition. Dad heads down road, blows stop sign, T-bones someone, child is killed (drunks almost always survive for some reason). Toxicology report shows that Dad was WAAAYYYY over the legal limit.

Mom is irate that you released child into drunken drivers care.
Mom sues you for negligence.
You lose.
Big time.

You now live in a cardboard box under the bridge.

Still thinking about releasing that child to a drunk driver?



Ask yourself this....would you let YOUR child get in that car?

Then why are you letting this child get in that car?

Honestly I don't give a flip about the law on this. I simply do NOT care. I don't know the law in my State and I won't bother looking it up. I would not EVER release a kid to a parent who was drunk. NEVER NEVER NEVER I will take the kidnapping charge thankyouverymuch. Good luck getting a judge or a jury to find you guilty on that.

[professionalmom]

I do not see the "kidnapping" as long as you are not keeping the parent from the child, but merely refusing to let them leave.
Here's what I would think would be the greatest liability - False Imprisonment.

Definition: False imprisonment is the detention of a person without any justification, consent, or authorization by law.

Justification - life or death situation, adult smelled of alcohol, possible risk to self, child, and other motorists / pedestrians, time frame was reasonable to allow for law enforcement to arrive any make a determination.

Consent - If you have this in your contract (no release to intoxicated person), they have GIVEN consent for you to restrain them in this circumstance. If you don't have it in, you could argue IMPLIED CONSENT based on the fact that they are entrusting the child into your care for protection and that duty does not end until they are off your property.

Now the law is different from state to state, so the wording may be different, but it usually allows for the "consent" exclusion. Put it in the contract and you're covered. They would be hard pressed for any recourse.

Wow - I'm having flashbacks to law school, which seems like a lifetime ago! FYI - there's always a loophole. There are rules, exceptions to the rule, exclusion to those exceptions, etc.

[misol]

I do not see the "kidnapping" as long as you are not keeping the parent from the child, but merely refusing to let them leave.
Here's what I would think would be the greatest liability - False Imprisonment.

Definition: False imprisonment is the detention of a person without any justification, consent, or authorization by law.

Justification - life or death situation, adult smelled of alcohol, possible risk to self, child, and other motorists / pedestrians, time frame was reasonable to allow for law enforcement to arrive any make a determination.

Consent - If you have this in your contract (no release to intoxicated person), they have GIVEN consent for you to restrain them in this circumstance. If you don't have it in, you could argue IMPLIED CONSENT based on the fact that they are entrusting the child into your care for protection and that duty does not end until they are off your property.

Now the law is different from state to state, so the wording may be different, but it usually allows for the "consent" exclusion. Put it in the contract and you're covered. They would be hard pressed for any recourse.

Wow - I'm having flashbacks to law school, which seems like a lifetime ago! FYI - there's always a loophole. There are rules, exceptions to the rule, exclusion to those exceptions, etc.

Sounds good to me!

[Chickenhauler]

I do not see the "kidnapping" as long as you are not keeping the parent from the child, but merely refusing to let them leave.
Here's what I would think would be the greatest liability - False Imprisonment.

Definition: False imprisonment is the detention of a person without any justification, consent, or authorization by law.

Justification - life or death situation, adult smelled of alcohol, possible risk to self, child, and other motorists / pedestrians, time frame was reasonable to allow for law enforcement to arrive any make a determination.

Consent - If you have this in your contract (no release to intoxicated person), they have GIVEN consent for you to restrain them in this circumstance. If you don't have it in, you could argue IMPLIED CONSENT based on the fact that they are entrusting the child into your care for protection and that duty does not end until they are off your property.

Now the law is different from state to state, so the wording may be different, but it usually allows for the "consent" exclusion. Put it in the contract and you're covered. They would be hard pressed for any recourse.

Wow - I'm having flashbacks to law school, which seems like a lifetime ago! FYI - there's always a loophole. There are rules, exceptions to the rule, exclusion to those exceptions, etc.

You make some very good points there with the consent/implied consent!


Another one to ponder....if you refuse to release the child into an intoxicated person's care/vehicle, what are they going to do? Call the cops?

And what do you think the police are going to do first thing when they arrive and drunken angry guy (and his car) are in your front yard?

Cars don't teleport themselves, and I don't have a bar on my front lawn.......DUI!

[Unregistered]

I left my job as a 911 dispatcher a year ago. We received these calls all the time about drunk drivers. Not necessarily a parent picking up a child at daycare, but citizens calling in on other drivers, restaurants calling in on patrons leaving, family members calling about someone leaving their house, even a parent calling in on another parent who had just picked a child up for visitation.

We would get as much of a vehicle description as we could, the exact location the vehicle was last seen in, and their direction of travel. We would then put it out over the air...

In my 5 years in that job, I can only remember one time an officer actually paid attention to information, happen to be in the exact spot the vehicle was in, and pulled them over. The rest of the time, the information was ignored. No officers went looking for these people. The did NOT respond. No one paid attention to what was said.

The only time that it actually worked was when some would follow the driver, against our *ahem* advice not to and repeated warnings that the police department would not be liable for their safety.

I'm not saying that EVERY police department is like this. But if it is a large city, or even a medium sized city...it is more likely that your phone call will fall on deaf ears.

I don't know whether or not kidnapping charges or false imprisonment charges could be brought up if you refuse to keep the child... I'm just saying you are more likely to get a police response if you do.

[HeatherB]

Well put.. this is how I feel too!

Okay maybe it's just me but I'm a mandated reporter and I'm forced to legally and morally to report anything like this. I'd simply tell the parent that I don't feel comfortable releasing the child to a person that is intoxicated and that he needs to find someone else to come by and pick the child up. Technically I didn't say that I wasn't releasing the child, only that I didn't feel comfortable doing it. If he argues, I'd tell him that if he takes the child anyway I will be forced to call the police and give the license plate number, discription of the car, home address and all of the parent's information (which all of us should have in our files) to report a drunk driver and child endangerment AND then that call will be followed by a call to Child Protective Services. If he still gives me a problem I'd hand him my telephone and tell him to call the police on me and ask him to wait until they arrived then ask him if he changed his mind and would like to call someone to pick them both up.

I mean, what's a person that's been drinking going to do? Call the police on me for kidnapping? I never said I wasn't releasing the child, I just said I didn't recommend it. If I call the police myself while the parent is there because the parent has been drinking and wants to take his child and drive I'd have him explain that to the police himself. Have him take a breathalizer. My excuse? I'm required by law to report SUSPECTED child abuse or endangerment to the authorities. Once the police showed up I'd explain to them that I never said I wouldn't release the child. Granted I better be prepared to lose this client but I'd rather lose a child as a client than to lose a child because he got in an accident and dies.

[Unregistered]

How bout DayCare Owner being drunk when you pick up kid?

Yea, I've been to pick my kid up and ***-owner was drunk and smelled like liqueur. To top it off she had a lit cigarette in her hand while kissing my kid bye! My child has bronchial asthma and SHE KNOWS THIS! Needless to say, my daughter does not go to Home ***** Daycare in Twin City anymore and I wouldn't trust **** to watch my dogs!

[dingledine]

I know in my state, I would be required to call protective services. I am not sure if I would be allowed/required to release to that parent. Is there a back-up number/person you could call? Could you just call protective services right now?

[Angelsj]

I could care less about the law. I've had this happen once and I told the parent to bugger off and come back when they weren't drunk. Go home... sleep it off.. and then come back. I had her kids until noon the next day (Saturday) and then I terminated them.

Just tell him he can't pick his kids up if he has been drinking. If he does it again you will call the police. If you smell a whiff of alcohol on him or he appears even SLIGHTLY intoxicated you will call. Be firm.

I'd be hateful about it but that's just me. I've learned to not be nice when situations like this happen. I don't like it and I'm going to be happy to tell them I don't. I don't need a dead kid on my conscience for the rest of my life. NO thanks.

This. I don't care what the law says. I give them the option to call someone else to pick up the child, or I will call the police and let them decide how to handle it.
The one time the cops actually had to be called and showed up, they THANKED me for calling them.

[lovemykidstoo]

...no not me.

One of my newer dc dads has been showing up at pick-up time, I've suspected after at least a few drinks on a few occasions...I've never said anything. But yesterday, my husband was home and working in the front yard and met this dad for the first time and they chatted a bit. After dad and dcb left, my husband comes in and asks me what I was thinking letting the boy leave with his dad in the condition that dad was in?! So it hasn't just been my imagination thinking dad hasn't been sober every day. BTW, my husband manages a restaurant/bar and can spot an un-sober person a mile away

But, according to a good friend of mine on the local police force, as well as my insurance rep that I called last nite, I can't legally NOT release the boy to his dad. The best they suggest is releasing the boy, and then calling the pd and reporting a drunk driver. So okay, legally, I can't stop a parent from driving their kids home from daycare when they're drunk...but morally?? My thought is to discuss the issue with dcmom...ideas...suggestions??

Does anyone have a clause in their contract about parents being sober when they pick-up their kids??

It kills me that after 23 years of doing daycare and thinking that I've seen everything, now I have to deal with this So sad.

Let me start by saying that if I suspected that one of my parents were drunk taking their child, I would be calling the police and having them sit by my house and pull him over. Having said that, can I ask why you think he's drunk? Is it his behavior or can you actually smell alcohol on him. The reason I'm asking is because I have 2 relatives that have MS and when they are having issues with their medicine, they appear drunk. They slur their words, they don't walk right, just like a drunk. Actually my one cousin even when she wasn't having problems with her meds, but just having a flair up, she acted drunk. There is also a local newscaster in our area and everyone asks if he is drunk, when in fact he had had a stroke. Is it a possibility that that is his issue?