FCCRS Questions

[melskids]

I would go crazy with two strange women...who know nothing about me or my day care kids...nothing about their likes and dislikes...nothing about their little personalities...nothing about their parents.....trying to tell me what would work best in my home day care.

I may do day care in a separate home from my own...but it used to be my actual home and is still run as a HOME day care. Is every home the same??? Of course not. Then why do they think that every HOME day care should follow the same stupid checklist???? At what point did they decide that the provider and parents are not capable of making decisions about care and that they know best? That somehow THEY get to say which providers are good and which are not by some dumb rating system.

I agree that licensing staff should visit licensed homes to make sure that basic safety is there and that ratios are OK etc. Anything more than that is just Big Brother putting a nose in where it shouldn't be. Day care should be the parents responsibility to monitor.

Anyone who is on this board can tell that we all run our day cares differently. How wonderful that parents (at least for now) can choose which type of care they want for their kids.
Do they want organic menus?
Do they want lots of field trips?
Do they want a rigid schedule, or a child driven one etc etc...

But now there's a rating system. Everyone under one umbrella and whether they are "good" or not becomes the decision of someone with a clipboard and a short time schedule.

Not one inspector will know the name of even one of your kids when they leave.
They won't know that Jimmy likes to be sung to at nap time.
They won't know that Suzie likes a hug for no reason whatsoever.
They won't know that you bought Timmy new shoes because his single mom is so hard up.
They won't know the grateful note you get from Charlie's mom.

All that matters is that you have the right "equipment" on show. If you have a nice calendar and fancy toys and so on...you get more stars. Be politically correct and you'll go far.

Teach French?...more points for being educational!. They won't notice you forgot to change Billy's diaper or that Amy is hating French and wants to color. You'll get brownie points for your "educational" program.

Sugar Magnolia was sad she lost a star this past year. OH NO! WHAT DID SHE DO WRONG??!!

NOTHING AT ALL. A total stranger who does not know her day care gave her a few teeny tiny less points...it was enough to lower her score. But I sadly can't help wonder if a parent looking for day care would see the drop in rating and assume she did something terrible. It's SO UNFAIR. Why don't they interview her DCP's? Get a REAL idea of her program.????? Oh yeah...the parents don't have a say in this fancy rating system...only the person who was there a few hours and knew nothing about her.

OK...rant over. I'm a menopausal, middle-aged female who is the chief mother hen around here. Don't let any government nobody tell me what to do with my chicks or they'll find themselves run off the farm!

happyface

You preach it girl.

***NO offense Crystal. You sound WONDERFUL. You know I love how you run your program, your wisdom, and the things you've taught me on this board. I WISH YOU could come do my assessment. lovethis***

[Meeko]

happyface

You preach it girl.

***NO offense Crystal. You sound WONDERFUL. You know I love how you run your program, your wisdom, and the things you've taught me on this board. I WISH YOU could come do my assessment. lovethis***

Again...a huge flaw in the rating program. Crystal may try and be as fair as she can. But even she is dismayed at how the inspections vary and how it's up to each individual to put their own spin on the inspection. No way can it be fair.

You are completely at the mercy of the person who comes into your home. If she doesn't like the color of your decor....you just lost points. If it's a he and he sees your husband's Cowboys poster...well there goes a few more points because he's a Steelers fan.

Ok...so that may be a little extreme......but a rating system cannot possibly be fair when the system is trying to rate apples, oranges and bananas against each other...and even the criteria is open for personal interpretation by individual inspectors!!!

[Crystal]

I do get dismayed. What I see happening is alot of assessor's who have no experience actually working in child care, or who get on a "power trip" and are hyper-critical of every little thing ( I especially see this with other family child care providers who are highly competetive and do not want to work with other providers). These are the assessments that need to be challenged....if you feel the score you recieve is unfair, demand PROOF that you did not meet the indicators. Just like licensing....if they cannot prove it, in writing, then it isn't accurate.

That being said, there are many things these tools are useful for.

Right now, I do assessments for Head Start. I have conducted ECERS and ITERS on their programs for the past three years, the same programs over and over. It has been AMAZING to witness the changes made in these programs based on my scoring and feedback. Programs that were scoring an overall 4 or lower are now almost at 7, the highest score you can recieve. They used my feedback as a learning tool to improve their programs, rather than taking it personally and the overall quality of care has improved dramatically.

I also did, until last fall, assessments for our R&R. The scores on these programs are not public and are not used for a star rating system. The providers I assess recieve stipends (up to $3000 per year) for going to school and continuously working towards their child development permits while working with children. The program has to assess if these stipends and the furthering of education for providers is creating higher quality early care and education programs for children birth-five.

For the States who have the STAR rating system, I strongly believe that the assessors, aside from being properly educated in how to accurately use the tool, should have some experience working in child care. It is impossible to understand the dynamics of working in group care without actually having done it yourself.

Personally, I'd like to see the use of this tool:

http://www.kaplanco.com/store/trans/productDetailForm.asp?CatID=16%7CTR1005%7C0&PID=18973

Which is Based on this book:

http://www.kaplanco.com/store/trans/productDetailForm.asp?CatID=16%7CTR1000%7C0&PID=18893

[Crystal]

Meeko....on a side note.....the FCCERS scale does include environments, health/safety, etc. but also includes ALOT about the relationships between the provider, children AND families. It isn't as educationally based as the ECERS is and "teaching" children isn't emphasized, more about DAP and offering the children experiences, with an emphasis on free play.

[Meeko]

Meeko....on a side note.....the FCCERS scale does include environments, health/safety, etc. but also includes ALOT about the relationships between the provider, children AND families. It isn't as educationally based as the ECERS is and "teaching" children isn't emphasized, more about DAP and offering the children experiences, with an emphasis on free play.

Good to know! I've heard so much from local providers who feel that if you have a ton of money and a fancy day care set up that you will be rated much higher than someone who is very small and just provides the basics...even though the small day care may have more satisfied and happy children and parents compared to the place that looks like a catalog picture.

[MizzCheryl]

I would go crazy with two strange women...who know nothing about me or my day care kids...nothing about their likes and dislikes...nothing about their little personalities...nothing about their parents.....trying to tell me what would work best in my home day care.

I may do day care in a separate home from my own...but it used to be my actual home and is still run as a HOME day care. Is every home the same??? Of course not. Then why do they think that every HOME day care should follow the same stupid checklist???? At what point did they decide that the provider and parents are not capable of making decisions about care and that they know best? That somehow THEY get to say which providers are good and which are not by some dumb rating system.

I agree that licensing staff should visit licensed homes to make sure that basic safety is there and that ratios are OK etc. Anything more than that is just Big Brother putting a nose in where it shouldn't be. Day care should be the parents responsibility to monitor.

Anyone who is on this board can tell that we all run our day cares differently. How wonderful that parents (at least for now) can choose which type of care they want for their kids.
Do they want organic menus?
Do they want lots of field trips?
Do they want a rigid schedule, or a child driven one etc etc...

But now there's a rating system. Everyone under one umbrella and whether they are "good" or not becomes the decision of someone with a clipboard and a short time schedule.

Not one inspector will know the name of even one of your kids when they leave.
They won't know that Jimmy likes to be sung to at nap time.
They won't know that Suzie likes a hug for no reason whatsoever.
They won't know that you bought Timmy new shoes because his single mom is so hard up.
They won't know the grateful note you get from Charlie's mom.

All that matters is that you have the right "equipment" on show. If you have a nice calendar and fancy toys and so on...you get more stars. Be politically correct and you'll go far.

Teach French?...more points for being educational!. They won't notice you forgot to change Billy's diaper or that Amy is hating French and wants to color. You'll get brownie points for your "educational" program.

Sugar Magnolia was sad she lost a star this past year. OH NO! WHAT DID SHE DO WRONG??!!

NOTHING AT ALL. A total stranger who does not know her day care gave her a few teeny tiny less points...it was enough to lower her score. But I sadly can't help wonder if a parent looking for day care would see the drop in rating and assume she did something terrible. It's SO UNFAIR. Why don't they interview her DCP's? Get a REAL idea of her program.????? Oh yeah...the parents don't have a say in this fancy rating system...only the person who was there a few hours and knew nothing about her.

OK...rant over. I'm a menopausal, middle-aged female who is the chief mother hen around here. Don't let any government nobody tell me what to do with my chicks or they'll find themselves run off the farm!

Girl you say it cause I'm so mad I can't
IT ****s!!!!!!
plain and simple
My Home daycare should not be penalyzed because we come into the kitchen to do crafts> BUT IT WAS. It should not be scored lower because my changing table had 4 inch sides instead of 7 BUT IT WAS. I still had my hand on the kids every second! But geezzzz maybe they think I am gonna go watch soaps while the kids lays on that 4 inch table and a 7 inch would be better.
OH and they failed my playground because they SAID there was a piece of plastic that had broken off a toy laying on the groud, funny I never say it. And a 4 foot section of my fence that had alittle flower bed in it wasn't 4 foot high.
Oh and I had 3 toddler who cried and climbed at my legs all morning because there was 2 strange women staring at them all day. So at nap time the kids are screaming! I was finally like LOOK you 2 ladies can wait in my living room or you can leave, but you are upsetting my kids so you GOTTA GO!
They waited in the living room outta sight of the kids. Took me 30 to 45 minutes to settle down my 3 toddlers.
So then they have apanel of questions. Needless to say they had to call me to get the rest of the answers.
That is just part of my rant. SO you can see I am not looking forward to doning this again. Soory I get a lil steamed about FCCRS. That is why I was asking for help.

[MizzCheryl]

OH yeah and a friend of mine did FCCRS. The entire upstairs of her house was here daycare. She had a room for Dramatic play, a craft room, a room just for blocks, science and math, all kinds of nice stuff. Guess what she scored A 2. why, she took a hit on every single catagory like dramatic play and block because the kids didn't have access to them 'MUCH OF THE DAY". Because she took them as a group to each room it wasn't considered that they had access. She only had 3 kids too. So they had lots of room to play.

[melskids]

Meeko....on a side note.....the FCCERS scale does include environments, health/safety, etc. but also includes ALOT about the relationships between the provider, children AND families. It isn't as educationally based as the ECERS is and "teaching" children isn't emphasized, more about DAP and offering the children experiences, with an emphasis on free play.

THIS is where my issue comes in. One assessor saw it this way, and the other scored me much MUCH differently because I wasn't "teaching" them EVERYTHING in the 3 hours she was here.

Any who actually DOES home daycare would know that there's NO WAY to fit EVERYTHING in, in the 3 hours someone is here to watch you.

[Countrygal]

I would go crazy with two strange women...who know nothing about me or my day care kids...nothing about their likes and dislikes...nothing about their little personalities...nothing about their parents.....trying to tell me what would work best in my home day care.

I may do day care in a separate home from my own...but it used to be my actual home and is still run as a HOME day care. Is every home the same??? Of course not. Then why do they think that every HOME day care should follow the same stupid checklist???? At what point did they decide that the provider and parents are not capable of making decisions about care and that they know best? That somehow THEY get to say which providers are good and which are not by some dumb rating system.

I agree that licensing staff should visit licensed homes to make sure that basic safety is there and that ratios are OK etc. Anything more than that is just Big Brother putting a nose in where it shouldn't be. Day care should be the parents responsibility to monitor.

Anyone who is on this board can tell that we all run our day cares differently. How wonderful that parents (at least for now) can choose which type of care they want for their kids.
Do they want organic menus?
Do they want lots of field trips?
Do they want a rigid schedule, or a child driven one etc etc...

But now there's a rating system. Everyone under one umbrella and whether they are "good" or not becomes the decision of someone with a clipboard and a short time schedule.

Not one inspector will know the name of even one of your kids when they leave.
They won't know that Jimmy likes to be sung to at nap time.
They won't know that Suzie likes a hug for no reason whatsoever.
They won't know that you bought Timmy new shoes because his single mom is so hard up.
They won't know the grateful note you get from Charlie's mom.

All that matters is that you have the right "equipment" on show. If you have a nice calendar and fancy toys and so on...you get more stars. Be politically correct and you'll go far.

Teach French?...more points for being educational!. They won't notice you forgot to change Billy's diaper or that Amy is hating French and wants to color. You'll get brownie points for your "educational" program.

Sugar Magnolia was sad she lost a star this past year. OH NO! WHAT DID SHE DO WRONG??!!

NOTHING AT ALL. A total stranger who does not know her day care gave her a few teeny tiny less points...it was enough to lower her score. But I sadly can't help wonder if a parent looking for day care would see the drop in rating and assume she did something terrible. It's SO UNFAIR. Why don't they interview her DCP's? Get a REAL idea of her program.????? Oh yeah...the parents don't have a say in this fancy rating system...only the person who was there a few hours and knew nothing about her.

OK...rant over. I'm a menopausal, middle-aged female who is the chief mother hen around here. Don't let any government nobody tell me what to do with my chicks or they'll find themselves run off the farm!

[Countrygal]

OH yeah and a friend of mine did FCCRS. The entire upstairs of her house was here daycare. She had a room for Dramatic play, a craft room, a room just for blocks, science and math, all kinds of nice stuff. Guess what she scored A 2. why, she took a hit on every single catagory like dramatic play and block because the kids didn't have access to them 'MUCH OF THE DAY". Because she took them as a group to each room it wasn't considered that they had access. She only had 3 kids too. So they had lots of room to play.

This is the one I'm gonna get killed on as well. I'll be dipped if they are going to have access to markers, paint, etc, in my HOME at their WILL every second of the 8 or 9 hour day they are here. NOT gonna happen. I wonder if I'll score above a 2. And a 3 is the highest I can go because, although I have YEARS of experience and PLENTY of training, I don't have an education in a RELATED category. I do have a BS, but not related. So a 3 is it, as I understand it. So tell me what I have to do to get a three and get outa my face. :P

[MA Degree Child Devel]

Fccrs

I've been reading the blogs about FCCRS and ECCRS-R. Just wanted to say I hear your frustration about the tool/s. I know those of you who have been Family Child Care Providers for years feel you have done a good job and know what you are doing. I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place. However, the world as we know it is constantly changing and moving forward. I've been in the ECE field since '74. I've seen lots of changes. Having been trained in ECERS-R and FCCRS, I can tell you that the tool is based on research backed by research and more research on what is developmentally appropriate for children and best practices. Hand hygiene, table washing/disinfecting and diaper changing recommendations are all based on Physician's recommendations on the best way to reduce the spread of germs in classrooms. When children are healthy and well, they attend more and when they attend more they learn more. And, we all know that children learn through play. Your environment and daily schedule is so important to facilitate as much time as possible in the day for chidlren to freely choose what they want to play. The Reggio Emila Approach believes that the environment is the child's 3rd teacher (after the parent and then the teacher) so environments can teach the child so much. If we all get on board and embrace quality in children's early learning programs, the children are the one's who benefit by getting the best early start possible towards their future educational path. Best wishes...

[Sunchimes]

I'll be dipped if they...

Countrygal, I had to laugh when I read this phrase. I've always said it and always been laughed at when I said it. I'm so tickled to hear someone else use it! happyface

[MizzCheryl]

I've been reading the blogs about FCCRS and ECCRS-R. Just wanted to say I hear your frustration about the tool/s. I know those of you who have been Family Child Care Providers for years feel you have done a good job and know what you are doing. I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place. However, the world as we know it is constantly changing and moving forward. I've been in the ECE field since '74. I've seen lots of changes. Having been trained in ECERS-R and FCCRS, I can tell you that the tool is based on research backed by research and more research on what is developmentally appropriate for children and best practices. Hand hygiene, table washing/disinfecting and diaper changing recommendations are all based on Physician's recommendations on the best way to reduce the spread of germs in classrooms. When children are healthy and well, they attend more and when they attend more they learn more. And, we all know that children learn through play. Your environment and daily schedule is so important to facilitate as much time as possible in the day for chidlren to freely choose what they want to play. The Reggio Emila Approach believes that the environment is the child's 3rd teacher (after the parent and then the teacher) so environments can teach the child so much. If we all get on board and embrace quality in children's early learning programs, the children are the one's who benefit by getting the best early start possible towards their future educational path. Best wishes...

Hey I agree with learning from our environment. I learned alot growing up from playing outdoors in the mud, running around picking up grasshoppers and slugs, rolling in the grass and playing good guys and bad guys. I am gonna tell you this, my mom didn't make me wash my hands everytime I walked outside or entered a room or played in the creek.
I know things have changed but I do not believe that children need to be able to do what ever they want whenever they want. I do not believe that my home daycare should be scored lower because it is not handicapped accessible. I do not believe that my changing table is anymore dangerous because the sides are 4 inces high instead of 6 inches, I keep a hand on the child at all times either way. FCCRS may be based on sound RESEARCH, however the models for that research are not real life daycares. They are the "model daycares" with model children. Mama is next door on the college campus and 16 observers are standing around in perfect little preschool world. They are not dealing with the children that were dropped off at grandmas all weeked so single mom could party or the kids that are raised by grandma cause mom and dad are on drugs. Or the kids that stay in daycare cause thier 16 year old mama is in highschool, or the kids that stay in daycare 10 or more hours a day. Thats what we are doing. And we are great at it! All children have different needs. A good provider works hard to get to know each individual child to find out what that child needs. Some kids may benefit from having crayons, markers, chalk, and paint accessible all day long and my do well. Other children may not be able to handle that.
I know there has to be some way of "scoreing us" but I just have so many problems with FCCRS. I do not have any problems with the handwashing and sanitizing. I know the children need to be clean and safe. But there are alot of things that are utterly riduculous.
I liked FDCRS much better. I tought it was pretty good and I always scored fabulous when I was assesed for FDCRS, But FCCRS is not so great! I have still kept my 5 stars but I hate it.
I guess I will keep on doing it for now, maybe. It just seems to get to the point where it is not really worth the trouble.
Not to mention I have had a few very unprofessional assessors. They were the assessors that were being trained but I do not appreciate eye rolling and snide facial remarks towards the children that I care for. Last time the assessors did not even want to stay outside with us at playtime because the grass was wet. They asked, after 10 minutes of being outside, if they could go back and wait inside.
Oh and as for physicians, I had a physician recommend a 2 year old was to young to be assesed for speach services. I had been trying to get it set up for a while and that doctors suggestion shut the whole thing down. The child really neeeds it.
I also do not mean to get so worked up and passionate about FCCRS, I just can't seem to help myself. Whenever I read that FCCRS book I just get so irritated. Please do not take my response personally. I love the kids I care for and I want what is best for them!

[Unregistered]

Fccrs

It sounds like there are some misunderstandings about the FCCRS. If one of your priorities is to serve food that can be microwaved, that is not a deal breaker with the scoring for the whole tool. Focus on the activities you are doing with the children, the interactions, and the structure of your day care.
Also, family style meals are encouraged, not discouraged.
I have also seen Reggio Emilia programs score well with the ERS tools. Since they are play based and child centered, they do very well.

[Heidi]

I would go crazy with two strange women...who know nothing about me or my day care kids...nothing about their likes and dislikes...nothing about their little personalities...nothing about their parents.....trying to tell me what would work best in my home day care.

I may do day care in a separate home from my own...but it used to be my actual home and is still run as a HOME day care. Is every home the same??? Of course not. Then why do they think that every HOME day care should follow the same stupid checklist???? At what point did they decide that the provider and parents are not capable of making decisions about care and that they know best? That somehow THEY get to say which providers are good and which are not by some dumb rating system.

I agree that licensing staff should visit licensed homes to make sure that basic safety is there and that ratios are OK etc. Anything more than that is just Big Brother putting a nose in where it shouldn't be. Day care should be the parents responsibility to monitor.

Anyone who is on this board can tell that we all run our day cares differently. How wonderful that parents (at least for now) can choose which type of care they want for their kids.
Do they want organic menus?
Do they want lots of field trips?
Do they want a rigid schedule, or a child driven one etc etc...

But now there's a rating system. Everyone under one umbrella and whether they are "good" or not becomes the decision of someone with a clipboard and a short time schedule.

Not one inspector will know the name of even one of your kids when they leave.
They won't know that Jimmy likes to be sung to at nap time.
They won't know that Suzie likes a hug for no reason whatsoever.
They won't know that you bought Timmy new shoes because his single mom is so hard up.
They won't know the grateful note you get from Charlie's mom.

All that matters is that you have the right "equipment" on show. If you have a nice calendar and fancy toys and so on...you get more stars. Be politically correct and you'll go far.

Teach French?...more points for being educational!. They won't notice you forgot to change Billy's diaper or that Amy is hating French and wants to color. You'll get brownie points for your "educational" program.

Sugar Magnolia was sad she lost a star this past year. OH NO! WHAT DID SHE DO WRONG??!!

NOTHING AT ALL. A total stranger who does not know her day care gave her a few teeny tiny less points...it was enough to lower her score. But I sadly can't help wonder if a parent looking for day care would see the drop in rating and assume she did something terrible. It's SO UNFAIR. Why don't they interview her DCP's? Get a REAL idea of her program.????? Oh yeah...the parents don't have a say in this fancy rating system...only the person who was there a few hours and knew nothing about her.

OK...rant over. I'm a menopausal, middle-aged female who is the chief mother hen around here. Don't let any government nobody tell me what to do with my chicks or they'll find themselves run off the farm!

I agree with you 100%, except this part. It's different in every state, but here you would not get points for that sort of thing. Here, it's all about "being intentional". Which means assessing individual children, goals setting, planning, and carrying out activities based on those assessments and goals. Oh, and these needs to be WRITTEN lesson plans, WRITTEN assessments. So, on top of 11 hour days, and taking 2 classes a semester to get my degree, I am SUPPOSED to let infant AND toddlers eat and sleep according to their wishes (per licensing regs ), AND plan lessons according to their assessments and written goals.

In the lala world they created, family childcare providers apparently don't need to eat, sleep, or poop. ::