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Not Clueless anymore
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If they could only remember a third of them there would be a lot of conflict and escalation every day. I must take care of exceptionally bright children because by the time they are 18-24 months they know the rules and abide by them. The amount of reinforcement or correction daily is very small. Often we go weeks in between reminding or reinforcing.
The training of the rules doesn't happen in one day and doesn't come from one source. The older kids model the rules. The younger kids learn. My staff assistant and I work with them from the time they can walk to learn our rules of play.
They all profit from the rules. "Build wide = then high" nets an amazing structure AND a good lot of "up and down" movements "arms in and out" of the bins both in taking out and putting back.
A two year old did this: http://www.nanshouse.com/apps/photos...toid=150595950
60 pronged base with 8 full completed levels plus unfinished levels above that. (not counting base) Do the math on that. That's working your way thru 480 prongs PLUS the unfinished 5 layers at the top. The only assistance she had was an adult placing the red bases you see at the bottom.
THAT is build wide then high.
The most important part of it was the "take apart and put back". That's where the lesson is. That's where the play rules come into place. Building it was a blast for this seasoned two year old builder but taking it apart and returning the pieces to a large deep bin.... once the challenge of it was over. That was some work and awesome exercise.
The rules are different rules then most may have BUT they net incredible players and great playmates. That's all I'm after.Comment
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Thank you for posting this. I've been thinking this same thing for quite some time - and I've definitely seen battle lines being drawn lately between other regular members as well. I really wish everyone would just cut it out and respect each other, even if they can't agree.Ok, I am going to intervene here and add that the free-play rules that Nannyde has posted are nothing new to what she has said before. This topic, at least between the two of you ladies has been discussed many times before, if I remember correctly, so I think it probably doesn't really need to be rehashed again.
Nan~ I think you are VERY good at what YOU do and YOU have a good thing going for YOU (and the parents who knowingly buy your services) and I respect that.
Crystal~ I also have a tremendous respect for you as I am also in the field of Early Childhood and fully understand what DAP and all the things that ECE teaches us today. What it all means and its importance.
We can both agree that Nannyde does things a lot differently than any "teacher" or EC theorist teaches us to do so it is pretty much a given that you two will NEVER agree on any of your chosen methods for caring for or teaching kids, so I think it is best if the two of you simply ignore each other or just stop quoting each other.
We all get it. You two are about as opposite as two people can possibly be so let's just let sleeping dogs lie.
I normally do not get involved (although as a mod maybe I should more often....) I don't know, I just hate stepping on other people's rights to express themselves and have an opinion, but seriously my inbox is full of PM's saying "I wish Nannyde and Crystal will stop replying to each other and all the drama etc etc" ..
.....so I am basically just passing on the message.
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Okay Nan. I see your reasons for your "rules" That doesn't mean I agree with them, but they are yours, they work for you, I am not going to debate them. I just wouldn't call your play time "free play" if you have that many rules, which was my point in the first place.
One question though....the picture of the "blocks"....I (as well as the environmental rating scales, which I know you don't follow) would not consider those blocks. (I know the box says blocks) Those are manipulatives, as are lincoln logs. I am just curious, do you have wood unit blocks at all? Those are the type of blocks I refer to when I say "build high" (and I do NOT mean this to be argumentative, I really am curious)
I have the mega blocks as well, and my toddlers can build like the pic you posted because it is actually easy to make them stand up....blocks have to be balanced and take a lot of work to create sturdy structures.Comment
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Love that statement.
I don't really have a list of written rules for free play, as acceptable behavior is modeled all along. I don't think the kids even think of it as rules, but just the way we play at Jenn's house. Safety, fairness, and sense of order in our organized chaos is the goal.
I think one of the wonderful things about home daycares is that we are all free to do what works for us, our home, our kiddos, and the parents we work with. What works for one, may not work at all for another. That doesn't make one daycare environment right and another wrong, that just makes it different. All kids and families have different needs, so we need different types of daycares.Comment
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originally posted by Nan:
I think your concerns are pretty simple to figure out. I advise searching this board to see where providers would have specific play issues. I don't need to do this. I have read your counseling to providers in the past and I really don't need to read it again.
For example you asked about no roaring. Search the word "roar" and you can see a number of posts about it. Here is one: https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthr...highlight=roar And you saw my response in that thread. I would never tell a child he cannot roar when playing with toy animals though. In fact I didn't advise no roaring in that thread....I advised reading a book that would teach the child about friendship and not roaring at his friends
dumping and dropping: https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthr...highlight=cars I couldn't read the post you refer to....the link takes me to the daycare.com home page. However, I know we have discussed this in the past. I think it's okay to dump, you don't, no problem.
and on and on...
There are SO many examples of providers issues with the behaviors that my rules speak to. To understand "why" I have the rules... read the forum here and stay in touch with working providers of all levels of experience. Sure, there are. That doesn't mean it is DAP to have all of these rules. But, I won't debate that with you, as you have said yourself many times, you do not provide DAP. And, FTR, I stay in touch with providers of all levels of experience....here on this forum, in my program as mentor teacher for the college with student teachers ( I have three students this term), when I coteach a college class on Thursday nights and when I present workshops in the community for the California Early Childhood Mentor Program.....I am VERY in touch with providers of all levels of experience.Comment
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I dont think there's that much difference in Nan's rules and everyone else's, except she has just written out most of the things we might correct.
Like "no bellying up on the toys and lifting feet off the floor" is not a rule most of us have, but we'd stop a child from doing it if we saw it.
ETA: somebody already said that
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FWIW, I let my dcks do whatever they want in the play room. As long as they are respectful to each other and share. If I see something dangerous about to occur (toddler climbing on unstable table) I intervene and advise not to repeat. This has worked for me. I understand lots of rules for liability reasons, but I believe that kids need to express their creativity as much as possible with as few rules as possible, as long as everyone is safe and respectful. I think I would be more inclined toward having more set rules for liability reasons if my own kids weren't in the mix though. I want my own kids to have free range to explore whatever they want, and the dcks benefit from that.Comment
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I agree.
My rules probably seem over the top as well, but I have an adventurous group,
. I never thought I would need a rule to not put toys in our socks, ! These are rules specific to my current group. My twin dcb's are the ringleaders and the other monkeys quickly follow their lead.
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LOL!I agree.
My rules probably seem over the top as well, but I have an adventurous group,. I never thought I would need a rule to not put toys in our socks, ! These are rules specific to my current group. My twin dcb's are the ringleaders and the other monkeys quickly follow their lead.
Yes, I agree! There does need to be a set of rules for specific/current groups. I have basic rules, and change them based on the needs/interests/developmental levels of the group I am working with. The children also have a role in the "rule-making" For instance, if we have a block thrower, we would sit as a group and have a discussion about it and I would ask the CHILDREN what they think might be a good rule for the situation. They inevitably come up with the rule "don't throw blocks" because we have discussed what happens when blocks are thrown. I have found that if the children have some role in the decision making, they are MUCH more likely to follow the "rules" that way!
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Ok, I've been reading this post for awhile now and I guess I'm just a little confused. One set of rules isn't always going to work for everyone. My rules work for me and my dck's and maybe not for everyone else. Even my dcp are amazed at the fact that I don't child proof my home. Not to say that the outlets aren't covered, the stairs have gates, and the cabinets have locks. But I keep my home decorated to my style and the dck's have just learned not to touch.
I guess I believe that a child can learn the rules at a young age as long as you are consistent.Comment
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crystal i have to agree with you 100% those rules are ridiculous. These are little children who don't read, why on earth would you post rules up when they can't read. Why would you prohibit their thinking ability by not allowing them to "roar" its called "free play" for a reason. This is called "helicopter parenting" you stand over the children and watch what they do, you make sure they follow all the rules, thats crazy. If you have so many rules in your house, then maybe thats too many children for you to handle, because even the schools don't have those kind of crazy rules.Comment
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my rules...
Be safe
Be kind
Be neat
sounds simple right?
But if you think about it that pretty much covers it all. I say Lil johnny is it safe, kind or neat to throw that?
NO!
I can get really specific with these rules.
Running in side?
Not safe, go back and walk.
Disrespect your friend, not kind!
rebuild their tower, Please
Knock down your playmate?
Not safe or kind.
Help them up and comfort them till they are feeling all better. Then when they feel all better they will let me know and you can go play. This has been my philosophy!
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