Destructive 3 yr old and Ignorant DCM

[nannyde]

So, Nan...I find it interesting that this is what you state here, but your policies, that are posted on your website seem completely opposite.

This is what you say in your policies:

. When children have escalating behavior we use “proximity control” or physically close supervision until the child exhibits the behaviors we seek for normal group activity. ( I would consider this shadowing)

We rely on the other children to show children with unwanted behavior what behavior we expect and promote. If a child persists with unacceptable behavior we “team” them up with the child in the day care who is able to show them the proper way to conduct themselves. When children with behavior issues are surrounded by balanced and stable children they will adjust quickly to the conduct of the rest of the group. We encourage the older children to model kind and co-operative behavior and to mentor the younger children who need help. Works like a charm. (I would consider this NOT being excluded or "confined" but remaining with the group to learn appropriate group behavior)

So, I am curious as to which philosophy you actually apply with your children?

Sorry I didn't see this. Too much time watching the new episode of....

Good questions:

What you bolded second:

Separation third. I have the physical space to give a child that needs their own area their own area.

You didn't include this which would be first: Discipline: We have little behavior issues with our kids. They don't hit, bite, fight, or be mean to each other in any way. The love each other and treat each other with respect and admiration. Most if not all of the children here have been raised with us since they were newborns or young infants. They have been brought up in our ways and have a strong attachment to the other kids and to their Nan.

We use a strict supervision and correction system that pretty much eliminates any aggressive behavior. We have "rules of play" that are wrought from 30 years of experience caring for kids which keep the kids focused on the toys and co-operative play. When children have escalating behavior we use "proximity control" or physically close supervision until the child exhibits the behaviors we seek for normal group activity.

So we guarantee that we have little behavior issues. We guarantee they don't hit, bite, fight or be mean to each other.

We discuss the "strict supervision and CORRECTION system and our rules of play. I have incoming parents read the rules of play on my blog.

IF the above did not work I would use separation with supervision. I have 150 square foot of space for each child in the house so I would easily have enough room to give a kid that was persistently acting out their own area.

What I definitely would NOT do is play with a child repairing the toys they just broke.

Shadowing is easily possible in my setting because of the way i have the room set up. We have the set up to sit the adult in close proximity to anyone who needs it and enough stuff to keep them busy while the adult is tending to what they need. I also don't have the adult doing close proximal supervision having to leave the area at all. That's a benny in having a full time staff assistant but I know is not easily replacable when you are doing care by yourself. If you are by yourself I would reccomend having play yard panels to separate the chlld physically within the area you are working so that you can come and go into the kitchen or bathroom without worry.

I'm a very strong believer in "go to bed" and think it's a sad thing that it has been removed as a reasonable consequence for acts of aggression, violence, distruction etc.. the really high level offenses. I think a lot of states have prohibited it because it is abused and not used as a measure of last resort.

I remember when I was a kid and visiting my aunties with my mom. I came inside and said something smart to my mom and my mom and two aunties turned their heads towards me ...... gave me the evil eye....... and said in unison "do you want to go to bed?" They weren't kidding and even though I was at my aunts they would have gladly popped me into my cousins bed for as long as it took to get the idea to watch how I talk to the Mama.

Bottom line is we have removed pretty much every affective means of disciplining kids now and providers feel overwhelmed with the notion that they are caring for kids that get to do whatever they want with absolutely no real consequence. We have to abide by the rules but it doesn't mean that the discipline ones aren't really bad ideas and don't work. Our kids behavior on a whole isn't getting better. Ask any vet school teacher what they think and you will most likely hear that it gets worse every year and is getting worse real quick like now.

[rhondawarren]

Just need some ideas please. I have a 3 yr old DCB who is sometimes destructive. Sometimes by accident and others on purpose. I use time out as a way to get him away from the toy he broke. He has broken a few things around the home as well. Purposly ripped off a windsock outside. Purposley threw a ceramic bird off of the porch shattering it.... Just a couple examples over the past yr.

I was so proud of the new felt board I made yesterday. It is double sided hinged, (forms a triangle when open to play) inside the backs are fabric slotted compartments to keep all the felt pieces right with the board. I introduced it and the new felt pieces I made. It was a big hit!! Until clean up. DCB was pulling on it to get it away from another child. Before I could get his hands off of it he had grabbed the back pocket and yanked ripping the new fabric which was not cheap! (I had it tacked down under the seams by a staple gun and that allowed it to tear easier I guess) I scolded him and asked why he ripped that. He shrugged his shoulders like always. He had no problem sitting in time out didnt phase him as it was clean up time anyway.

DCM comes and I talked to her about it. I told her we had to come up with something to stop his destruction. She just looks at me. I told her the effort put into that board (made on real wood BTW not cardboard like my last) She just looked around at the kids playing. Then said "boooobbbyyy" in a whining i dont want to correct my kid tone like she ALWAYS says and thats ALL she ever says is a dragged out name like they know better RIGHT! I told Bobby to come out of the yard and talk to us. He was told 4 times by me and 3 times by her. He looked up the first 2 times then went on ignoring us swinging and then running around. I had another child in the house to potty (SA) so I couldnt leave in case they got into something otherwise I would have went down and retrieved him. I don't think it was too much to expect the DCM to make her child come discuss it so we could correct him together. She just laughed it off and said he's too busy playing.

I went on with my complaint... I told her time away from the toys isnt working so what does she suggest. She just went on to tell me "thats ok he did this... and that... at home" It's not ok, so how do we fix it? She says she doesnt know and says "come one sweetie lets go" Sweetie? After he just ignored us and broke a new project? She goes gets him from the yard and I tell her we should talk to bobby together before she leaves. She looked down at him and said "stop breaking stuff" he said "k" and they left.:confused:

He doesnt cause damage every day but I'm just tired of him thinking he can do what he wants and DCM thinking it's ok! She should have at least made him come out of the yard and talk with us!

I am so fed up with the no where talks with DCM no matter the issues she just drags out the name like they know better and says don't... again. It doesn't stop! Anyone have any ideas? I didn't buy the felt but I did buy the materials and take over an hour making all of it. I wanted to tell her she has to replace the material but she will say they don't have the money. I fight to get paid pennies a day!

I welcome any thoughts to change this situation. TIA!

I had the same issue with a 2 year old little boy last week. He wrote on my couch, tore off a ton of toilet paper and shoved it into my toilet, he pealed seal off of my back door, he rammed into my pantry door and tore it off of its tracks .... just to name a few things he done.

I wasnt charging them enough anyways and his four year old sister wasnt fully potty trained and was pooping her pants for me to clean up with no clean clothes sent with her.

So when the mother got here Friday I had a letter of a rate increase waiting for her because I was raising my rates anyways across the board. She also asked how her kids were so I let it rip I told her everything they tore up, everything they said to me, how they didnt listen to a thing I say.

So over the weekend I text her to see if she saw the rate increase and she says (of course) "I didnt see it". So I told her she needed to read over it because its effective Monday. So she text me back and said she couldnt afford the increase. So I told her well good luck then because its not worth my time for the rate she was paying.

Im no longer watching those children but ........... I am no longer having to fix tore up things in my house and things either! So sometimes its worth letting go of those causing stress, not listening or being distructive. Especially when the parents could care less!

[christinaskids]

I would "ground" the kids from the toys for a few hours or all day. I explain that the toys are MY toys and if the child cant play without breaking them, then they cant play with them anymore. Ive also told my dc kids that im gonna go break their toys at their house, how would they feel? It takes the kids by surprise to picture it and i really dont have a problem with it here. Imo just asking him why he is doing it is not doing a lot for the kid. He knows its wrong but he also knows not much will happen to him if he does. He is just testing his boundaries imo.

And yes nan, i WILL put kids to bed if they act up and my parents know it. Ive never done it besides start nap 10 minutes early, but if they are getting out of control, then i am done with their behavior. I treat the kids like my own. If my kids act up, they get grounded to their room or get privlidges taken away. I dont have too many behavioral issues with my kids and my kids tell me they love me and give me hugs everyday. Younger kids are different though. Timeout starts to not work after a certain period and thats where privledges start to be taken away.

[skittles]

I agree with christinaskids as stated above. Sounds so much like my crew. I have had to term one little guy who was so destructive but he was also very physical. He would really act up anytime his parents were present. They would pretend not to see what he was doing. When I asked them why they would not teach their son not to slap other kids across the face, especially in front of them. Their response was he does not know any better (he is 4 years old)! They did not correct him at all. He was aloud to go to bed whenever he wanted. He was tired all the time! He is now at another childcare and I hear he has gotten worse. He now bites adults, he will walk into a room find a person, and bite the person's leg. He rarely uses words even though he is capable of having full length conversations. He falls asleep all the time during the day. Poor thing I wish him luck!

[karen]

Another SUPERMOM! I am not sure why it's o.k. for parents to not want to teach their child about respect....
Some things I have done when children break my stuff
I do some major hand holding and keep telling the child sorry I can't let you go play because you broke my toy and that makes me very sad. After awhile I ask if they are ready to play and if they say yes they are allowed to go play but they are reminded how I don't like them being mean to my stuff. When I see that they are playing the right way they get praised "Yay Johnny I see you are doing a great job playing so nicely that makes me so happy! I am so proud of you..I knew you could do it.
In front of the parent I say hopefully tomorrow Johnny you won't be so mean to my toys/property because that makes Miss Karen very sad.
Finally and this works for me I tell the children and yes in front of the parents should I come to your house and break one of your toys.
I know how mean this sounds but sometimes it is the only thing that has worked....and I have never had to do it because the behavior has stopped.
If I did have to do it I would absolutely make sure I had the exact same toy to hand back to the child after we had a discussion about "how that made you feel"