FCCERS People...

[Heidi]

Can you post a picture of your art, math, and literacy centers?

How do you keep the art supplies accessible to preschoolers, yet prevent toddlers from dumping or carrying them off? I have 2 preschoolers and 3 toddlers (youngest 19 mo twins), so they out-number me considerably! I know the key is supervision, but that's tricky with my group unless I want to sit next to the art materials all waking hours, which I do not

I was considering setting up an art "desk" with room for 2 children at a time. I thought I'd velcro down (thanks to one of you ladies) a couple little buckets on the back of the desk for pencils, crayons, and a few other items. That would eliminate dumping, right? They might still carry them off, but they could only take a few at a time, and presumably I could monitor that. Are scissors considered safe for 19 mo's if they are blunt tipped?

[Crystal]

As an assessor, I can tell you that for Family Child Care, materials do not HAVe to be "accessible" to the children at all times. They only need to be "available" for the provider to bring out if children request them.

Now, not all assessors realize this. SO, if you get an assessor who marks you down for materials not being accessible, challenge them on it......if they don't see it out in the environemnt, they should ask to see it.

The art desk sounds like a good idea. And, yes, I'd put out blint tip scissors for that age group.....but they would be taught, through redirection, that the scissors do not leave the table and they have to sit when using them.

[melskids]

As an assessor, I can tell you that for Family Child Care, materials do not HAVe to be "accessible" to the children at all times. They only need to be "available" for the provider to bring out if children request them.

Now, not all assessors realize this. SO, if you get an assessor who marks you down for materials not being accessible, challenge them on it......if they don't see it out in the environemnt, they should ask to see it.

The art desk sounds like a good idea. And, yes, I'd put out blint tip scissors for that age group.....but they would be taught, through redirection, that the scissors do not leave the table and they have to sit when using them.

I know you've said this before, but everyone I have had here to assess, or any trainings I've attended on FFCERS all say "accessible". Is there any written info to support what you are saying? Something I could show them? No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer.

I even emailed one of the authors of the FFCERS, and she basically gave me the run around as well.

My biggest issue is not having the space to have ALL of the stuff out they want.

Anyway, not to hijack the thread. Sorry bbo.

I have been able to seperate my space ,for the most part, keeping all materials that are not appropriate for the littles to one area. I don't allow them in that area unless I am directly with them, and I am constantly redirecting. With consistency, they are learning not to go in the preschool area without me.

That's the best I can come up with right now.

[BigMama]

I even emailed one of the authors of the FFCERS, and she basically gave me the run around as well.

Really? If you feel it is appropriate to share I'd be curious to know exactly what the reply was.

[BigMama]

Did that sound snooty? Wasn't meant to be...I am just (very) curious.

[Crystal]

From the instructions in the book:

must be within easy reach of children. No barriers (verbal, such as a "no-
touch" rule, or physical, such as being stored out of sight) can be present
to prevent children from reaching them. For example, toys are not
accessible if they are in containers with lids that the children cannot
manage, unless the provider shows signs of regularly making the toys
accessible to the children by opening various containers during the
observation. If materials are stored out of reach, they must be placed
within children's reach to be counted as accessible. For example, if they
are stored in a closet, they must be brought out and placed where children
can reach and use them. If stored out of a non-mobile child's reach, the
child must be moved to reach the materials, or the materials must be
placed close to the non-mobile child, within reach.

During an observation, if there is evidence that the provider regularly
provides access to the variety of toys required for an item or indicator, credit
can be given for "accessible."

When the provider reports that particular
materials are brought out for the children to use, but this was not observed,
those materials must be shown to be easily accessible to the provider to give
credit. Materials stored far from the child care space or crowded together so
they are difficult to reach are not considered easily accessible to the
provider. The observer should be sure to ask to see those materials that the
provider reports using with the children, that were not accessible to children
during the observation.

In a full-day program (operating 8 hours or more), unless stated in the
item, materials must be accessible for at least 1 hour to give credit at the
minimal level. Less time is required for programs operating for less than 8
hours. The required amount of time is calculated proportionally, based on
the ratio of 1 hour for programs of 8 hours or more. Use the following chart
to determine the approximate amount of time required for part-day
programs.

[Crystal]

Also, aside from the book, I took a college course on all of the scales and this is how we were trained. My professor was trained by Thelma Harms, one of the authors/developers of the scale.

[Heidi]

I know you've said this before, but everyone I have had here to assess, or any trainings I've attended on FFCERS all say "accessible". Is there any written info to support what you are saying? Something I could show them? No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer.

I even emailed one of the authors of the FFCERS, and she basically gave me the run around as well.

My biggest issue is not having the space to have ALL of the stuff out they want.

Anyway, not to hijack the thread. Sorry bbo.

I have been able to seperate my space ,for the most part, keeping all materials that are not appropriate for the littles to one area. I don't allow them in that area unless I am directly with them, and I am constantly redirecting. With consistency, they are learning not to go in the preschool area without me.



That's the best I can come up with right now.

No problem-you did not hijack!

I would absolutely love to have a seperate area where only the older kids can go, but space here does not allow. I have tried different variations, and have not been able to accomplish that and still maintain good supervision of everyone. I don't have one big room to divide off...just my livingroom/dinning combo, and a small playroom down a short hall. If I put the big kid stuff in the playroom, I cannot supervise the toddlers in my livingroom. If I put the toddlers in the playroom, which is easier to "safety", they don't get into stuff, but they get on each other CONSTANTLY. They just trash the room and pound on each other..... The best solution for supervision has been to give them ALL access to both areas, and I wander back and forth. They fight way less! I just need to figure out the "center" situation.

My plan for the summer is that we are only inside for the first hour of the day, then eat & play outside, eat lunch outside, then come in for naps. Then back outside! That one hour will meet FCCERS, so that is the only reason I am even doing it. Tried it out this last week since we've had summer weather, and everyone is much happier, me included! So, I am making some of the "centers" on my covered porch, and will move them back in when winter comes again.

With my $500 grant money, I plan on purchasing outdoor art equipment (like another low table and an easel), making a water table, and filling in the center items I still need, like some counters, musical instruments, and small furniture.

I really want to be a 4 star program (I can't be 5 Star until my degree is finished, probably next summer). But, this is a lot of work for 5 children & $410 per week (family of 4 gets a discount). Even once my tots turn 2, realistically, I cannot gross more than $770 per week, because there will always be 1 or 2 under the age of 2, and those take up 2 slots (of 8 possible) each.

PS: I know I'm whining...sorry!

[countrymom]

thank goodness we don't have this in canada, but why is it that as a daycare home you need to have all the supplies accessible for children, when they go to school they don't have too.

[nannyde]

The art desk sounds like a good idea. And, yes, I'd put out blint tip scissors for that age group.....but they would be taught, through redirection, that the scissors do not leave the table and they have to sit when using them.

I can't even imagine giving a 19 month old baby a pair of blunt tipped scissors.

Can you please tell us any brand of scissors that has an age for safety for that age?

Does the FFCERS have standards in place to assess that providers are only offering materials to children who are within the age reccomended by manufacturers?

[Country Kids]

I have very old crayola crayon scissors that I have had out for at least 15 years and never had a problem with. They are actually plastic with a little metal piece for the cutting.

Crayola is actually coming out with a whole line of art products for little ones. I'm actually thinking of buying some just so that we can have some new things.

Do you not believe in little ones having access to these things Nan? My scissors, hole punches, markers, glue, and crayons sit on my preschool table all the time. The kids never bother with it unless we are doing a project. I had one little boy one time, he was three that almost fainted when he saw everything. I asked his mom what was wrong and she said "he is soooo excited happyface about all that, as the last provider didn't allow any art stuff what so ever." I had never fathomed that someone wouldn't have that kind of stuff out or available to children-

[Crystal]

I can't even imagine giving a 19 month old baby a pair of blunt tipped scissors.

Can you please tell us any brand of scissors that has an age for safety for that age?

Does the FFCERS have standards in place to assess that providers are only offering materials to children who are within the age reccomended by manufacturers?

I didn't imply that there was a manufactuer that has that an age for safety with scissors. I don't follow all of the "manufactuer guidelines".....there are SOOOO many toys and materials that could not be used with under 3 if I did. I follow what works for MY group of kids and MY ability to manage it. Not all, but many of my 18 month olds have been ready for using scissors, although minimally. They cannot reach them on their own and I am always right there to supervise, but, they do it, and by 2 -2.5 they are PROS at using scissors.

The FCCERS says:

Appropriate: Used in various items to mean age- and/or developmentally-suited for the children in the group being observed. In determining whether the requirements for "appropriate" are being met within the context of a particular indicator, the observer should consider whether the children's needs for protection of health, safety, stimulation and positive relationships are being met in ways that are supportive and meaningful. "Appropriate" means challenging but not frustrating......

[melskids]

Did that sound snooty? Wasn't meant to be...I am just (very) curious.

Not snooty at all!

I shouldn't have said she gave me the run around. Truthfully, she was just very brief, and didn't answer the question as thoroughly as I would have liked. I'm sure she's a busy woman, and I'm just happy she did respond.

I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be accessible. You all know I arm my kids with scissors, tools, kitchen utensils, and hot glue guns. I don't follow manufacturer's recommendations either. It's about our experiences, and what we can handle, both the kids, and I.

My issue is two different assessors giving me two different explanations (and assessments) of what accessible means and then telling me the tool isn't subjective.

[Heidi]

Not snooty at all!

I shouldn't have said she gave me the run around. Truthfully, she was just very brief, and didn't answer the question as thoroughly as I would have liked. I'm sure she's a busy woman, and I'm just happy she did respond.

I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be accessible. You all know I arm my kids with scissors, tools, kitchen utensils, and hot glue guns. I don't follow manufacturer's recommendations either. It's about our experiences, and what we can handle, both the kids, and I.

My issue is two different assessors giving me two different explanations (and assessments) of what accessible means and then telling me the tool isn't subjective.

We're human beings...EVERYTHING is subjective! As a matter of fact, I have a bit of an issue with all of this because we are trying so hard to quantify everything. How can you really, truly quantify everything? I guess you all know now that I am not completely bought into this, but it is what it is!

I'm wondering if perhaps someone could come and watch me with my husband for 7 hours, using a rating system, and then rate our marriage? If we made that a practice while couples were in the engagement period, perhaps we could reduce the divorce rate!!! ::

[littlemisssunshine]

Can you post a picture of your art, math, and literacy centers?

How do you keep the art supplies accessible to preschoolers, yet prevent toddlers from dumping or carrying them off? I have 2 preschoolers and 3 toddlers (youngest 19 mo twins), so they out-number me considerably! I know the key is supervision, but that's tricky with my group unless I want to sit next to the art materials all waking hours, which I do not

I was considering setting up an art "desk" with room for 2 children at a time. I thought I'd velcro down (thanks to one of you ladies) a couple little buckets on the back of the desk for pencils, crayons, and a few other items. That would eliminate dumping, right? They might still carry them off, but they could only take a few at a time, and presumably I could monitor that. Are scissors considered safe for 19 mo's if they are blunt tipped?

What is FCCERS?