What Is Wrong With Kids These Days?

[Hunni Bee]

I haven't read all of mac60's posts so I dont know her stance on spanking. But what I did read in her post is that they took discipline out of schools and daycare settings. Yes its true, they did take physical punishment away as an option.

And they have gradually taken everything else away too.

I have so few "okay" options available to me as far as discipline. Redirection and explanation, that's about it. Timeout is considered abusive, its isolation. Loss of privileges hurts their.self esteem. Natural consequences teach them to be fearful. "No", "no-nonsense" faces or voices all intimidate them.

This, in combination with lax parenting and overstimulation as others have said, results in these behaviors we see day in and day out.

[jen]

Am I missing something? Did Mac60 not say... "When they took discipline out of the schools, then don't allow a daycare provider to discipline a child"?

The only type of disciplining I am not allowed to do as a provider is physical punishment. The only type of disciplining that is not allowed in the schools is physical punishment. So I can easily see how it could be inferred that her opinion on kids bad behavior is a direct result of not being allowed to be physically punished at schools and at daycare, or by parents for fear of being charged with child abuse.

Actually, that isn't true. Educators are not allowed to "call out" a student for bad behavior as they are "shaming" the child. We are not to call attention to a child's poor behavior and I have seen children literally push an administrator and simply get sent to the "reflection" room...after all, he didn't really hit anyone.

Now, don't get me wrong. NO ONE had better lay a hand on my child; but the truth is, educators are pretty limited in what they can do by way of discipline. Teachers need to rely on parents. I had a student last week who told a teacher she was a "stupid sl*t." She then refulsed to go to the in school suspension room; administration contacted her parent. The parent told the kid to go sit in detention and she'd get $50 when she got home...

Just sayin...

[Meeko]

Actually, that isn't true. Educators are not allowed to "call out" a student for bad behavior as they are "shaming" the child. We are not to call attention to a child's poor behavior and I have seen children literally push an administrator and simply get sent to the "reflection" room...after all, he didn't really hit anyone.

Now, don't get me wrong. NO ONE had better lay a hand on my child; but the truth is, educators are pretty limited in what they can do by way of discipline. Teachers need to rely on parents. I had a student last week who told a teacher she was a "stupid sl*t." She then refulsed to go to the in school suspension room; administration contacted her parent. The parent told the kid to go sit in detention and she'd get $50 when she got home...

Just sayin...

You just summed up parenting today, Jen....and sadly this kind of thing goes on EVERYWHERE and in HUGE numbers.

[MyAngels]

I really think that it is less about society and more about people thinking they have to keep up with the joneses.....we have become a very materialistic country......women with working husbands (or vice versa) don't really HAVE to work.....they HAVE to work because of the choices they make....having to have a new car every few years, having to have the latest iphone or ipad, having to have, HAVE, HAVE......

It comes down to setting priorities........is HAVING more, more important than raising yuor family?

I think this is true in many cases, but what about the working poor in our country? Someone making minimum wage in my state, working full-time, makes less than $18,000 per year. I don't think it's a choice for a family in that position. Both parents must work.

That doesn't excuse poor parenting, however.

[Country Kids]

I'm going to post pretty quick because I've been pretty sick this week and not alot of energy to be up but......

for those born before the 1980's really think back. Do anyone of you guys remember your friends or people in school having ADD, ADHD, Learning Disabilities, Autism, Anger Management, Problems with Authority, Sensory Issues, etc? I really, really don't remember these being issues when I was in school.

Also, immunizations were still pretty new in the 50-60's I believe and none of us seem as effected as kids today. Don't you think medicine would advance and not cause problem but have caused the problems when everything first came out?

I think its a combination of many, many things. Lack of discipline (lets be friends, not families), moms working outside the home, TECHNOLOGY, people scared to let kids be kids, diet, etc.

Heard a local story where the shop teacher was almost sued by some parents. Why, because he touched their son-what happened. The son was beating up the girlfriend at school, shop teacher tried to break it up by stopping the son. Kid was under 18 so of course they were going for the adult versus minor thing! In my day, that would have never, ever have happened. I remember when school bus drivers kicked kids off and didn't flinch because they were able. Now, school busses in my eyes are very dangerous because of the unruly kids on them.

Just my two cents, but really think about how your classmates where and when things started changing.

[MizzCheryl]

theres nothing wrong with the children these days.
Its that everything is wrong with their parents

You said it all!

[dave4him]

Natural born sinners..... who need all the guidance, love, grace, and forgiveness we can offer as natural born sinners ourselves

[mac60]

And this is why I don't come around here much, it is because of this type of bullying on this forum that is allowed. Then I have people saying they have been reading my post for 7 years. Really????? Seriously, people should not make assumptions, accusations, comments, etc, about people they know nothing about. If you want to disagree with what someone wrote, so be it, but do you really have to continue to bring my name up, I wasn't the only one that felt that way. In my book that is called bullying.

[SilverSabre25]

Mac, you're not being bullied, but I do honestly want to know what YOU think is the appropriate way to teach children the proper way to behave. You post some very strong views on the subject but don't elaborate...I want to know.

it's not bullying to ask for clarification of someone's position.

Crystal didn't bully you either.

I'm not asking other people because YOU are the one I've been wondering about for awhile.

It's called "discussion".

[MyAngels]

Sooo....you feel that spanking is the only acceptable course of action for every single infraction a child can possibly commit? May I ask how you ever teach a child how they are supposed to behave? You do know that children aren't born perfect, right?

Redirection has its place. Time out has its place. Sure, they have to be used correctly and many people don't...apparently YOU don't. But if you took the time to open your mind and LEARN how to implement these techniques correctly, to learn to, perhaps, respect children, and understand children, and understand that children need to be TAUGHT not punished, maybe you would have better luck.

SOME of us never spank and have perfectly wonderfully behaved children. SOME of us happily find the labels that explain the misbehavior...and then work to get around the behavior within the context of the larger challenge.

I don't normally post in these type of threads, but I've got to say - the above post does not come across as a request for a "discussion." It comes across as a patronizing put down. I can see why Mac60 would feel the way she does.

I hope I'm wrong, but that's the way it reads to me.

[mac60]

Mac, you're not being bullied, but I do honestly want to know what YOU think is the appropriate way to teach children the proper way to behave. You post some very strong views on the subject but don't elaborate...I want to know.

it's not bullying to ask for clarification of someone's position.

Crystal didn't bully you either.

I'm not asking other people because YOU are the one I've been wondering about for awhile.

It's called "discussion".

Of coarse you are going to say I am not being bullied, you are one of them that seems to be doing it. Fine, whatever. Seriously, I am the one you have been wondering about for a while? Again, whatever, that is just ridiculous.

[SilverSabre25]

Of coarse you are going to say I am not being bullied, you are one of them that seems to be doing it. Fine, whatever. Seriously, I am the one you have been wondering about for a while? Again, whatever, that is just ridiculous.

All right, I'm sorry, I withdraw the question.

I don't usually post things that make people mad but this sure does seem to be my day for making major mistakes and making people mad.

I don't recall ever having said much at all to you in the past and if one strongly phrased comment is enough to get me branded as a bully then I'm just going to slink away and hide in shame for awhile

I'm sorry.

[Countrygal]

You really seemed to have hit upon a popular topic! Two pages already!

I didn't have time to read them all, but I wanted to post on this one as well. I am almost 60 and have come through from the 50's to present. I have seen a LOT change!

When I was a kid we drove on two lane roads. We shopped for EVERYTHING at the local stores - a grocery store, a hardware store, a five and dime. Once a year we made a trip before Christmas to the "big" city (Green Bay which, believe me was not that big at that time) to be able to visit stores like JC Penny and Sears, etc.

I saw the first McyD's in our state (was 12 miles from my home), saw malls come into existence, 747's, air travel become a daily event and cars now get about the same gas mileage as back then! HAHAHAHAHA I remember when I started to drive gas would go down to 23cents a gal or lower during "gas wars" and I remember penny candies and 5cent candy bars.

In all honesty, I think what has happened to our kids - and it HAS happened, (kid's aren't the same, well, kids are but raising them is not and problems kids and adults have due to that is not) - is a general malaise about TRAINING our children. Teaching them how to behave, why to behave that way and teaching them a sense of BELONGING. Belonging to family, to community, to our country and even the world. And if it IS taught we often skip the first two or three and go straight to the country or the world. What ever happened to "it takes a community to raise a child"????

I have some wonderful kids, and wonderful families that I work with. I feel soooo blessed! Yet I see the same recurring problems with them and even with my own grandson. Basically, lack of empathy, lack of a sense of being a part of something bigger than yourself, and lack of training in how to behave.

Most of what I see comes down to that, IMO.

I took a lot of space to write a small answer, but I felt some background was in order.

WHY are we where we are? I don't think there's a single cause. This is the "ME" generation. Even my 20yo and 30yo daughters will admit that their entire generation is very "me" centered. Those of us of my generation and the previous generation have made them so. The blame can be placed squarely on our shoulders. Yet I can't put a finger(s) on the cause. Too much abundance and luxury?? I don't know. Whatever the cause, the last few generations took it and ran with it.

Honestly, I've come down to the belief that the WHY isn't as important as what we do about it. I talk to my dcm's constantly about working together to teach discipline, empathy, etc. I talk to other dcw about how behavioral characteristics are what are mostly missing from our "requirements" our "assessments" and our curriculums. And I am working hard to come up with a way to re-invent the wheel: to teach my dck about these things as a part of their dc experience - the MAIN part, not a book or unit on being "cooperative" or "truthful", but an experience that is every day, all day and that they will carry out of here as a basic part of their personality for all of their lives.

I know, it sounds too good to be true, and maybe it is. After all, I'm not the mom, only the "babysitter". But I have them more waking hours every weekday than mom does. I think I can have a lot of influence on them - hopefully for the good!

[Countrygal]

I wanted to post my opinion on discipline as well. Since I have raised one family and am starting on the second, have over 35 years experience leading church youth groups, scouting groups and 4-H groups, I feel I do have some experience!

I believe the solution is not in which discipline you use, but in how it is applied. The most importantly is IMMEDIATE and CONSISTENT, IMO.

When my kids were growing up I trained them to not respond to my requests until I yelled. I would ask nicely, lecture, count to 3, ask them to stop and think, ask again, then my voice would start to escalate. By the time it reached a certain volume, the kids knew they had to obey now or get a swat. I guess it was a form of training, but certainly not very effective, and my kids have suffered the consequences of it.

I shared that story with my dcm's yesterday. It is very true. Consequences must be IMMEDIATE. And if we don't do that and do it every time, we are training our children to not listen the first time, or second time or until some point at which we administer the consequences.

Spanking or not spanking is not the point. Time outs or not is not the point. How they are used IS the point, IMO

I'm sorry if this seems inflammatory to some, but I again state that it is only IMO. I have very strong opinions, but they are just my opinions.

[PixieFirefly]

I really think that it is less about society and more about people thinking they have to keep up with the joneses.....we have become a very materialistic country......women with working husbands (or vice versa) don't really HAVE to work.....they HAVE to work because of the choices they make....having to have a new car every few years, having to have the latest iphone or ipad, having to have, HAVE, HAVE......

It comes down to setting priorities........is HAVING more, more important than raising yuor family?

I so agree with you!! Well said!! happyface People cant be thankful for what they DO have and want to focus on being unhappy on what they DONT have i used to be a person like that myself but have had a huge reality check and realize what is really important in life