Dumping and Dropping

[Heidi]

Ok-so at what age do you curb the dumping of toys (like baskets of toy food), and the dropping of toys?

My youngest are 19 months old now, and after they are done, the playroom looks a bit like a warzone. I don't have that many toys out, just a sampling of each, and I do rotate to avoid boredom. Because of the nice weather, we are only inside for an hour, then have breakfast and go outside. This will probably be our summer routine (dumb FCCERS requires a minimum of one hour inside PLAY...wierd).

I wouldn't mind if they used the blocks for cooking, or made car soup, or if they stack the blocks from the sorting toys. I am starting to mind, though, that most of the toys are not so much played with as looked at and tossed, or dumped out altogether.

The ages that are here most days are 19m, 19m, 23 1/2m, and 3 1/2. The 3 1/2 yo is much better at playing, although she does some of the same stuff. Cleanup is me giving 4 kids jobs one at a time, or just doing it myself because that takes too long and quite frankly is a pain in the bleep. I KNOW I should make them do it everytime, even if I have to manage every step.

Do you think I should label all my shelves with pictures, and then be a general about putting each toy away after use? Is that appropriate with the younger ones? I'd be a lot of work for a while, but then they'd have the habit?

In the past, I had a much bigger playroom, so a few toys on the floor weren't a huge deal. I also had kids who actually PLAYED with the toys more, and needed less direction regarding clean up. My little playroom combined with this particular group (3 of the 4 are sibs), makes it a bit trickier now. Looking for ideas here....

[My3cents]

bump, bump and bump again.......

I am with you- Would love ideas. I have taken out, but still they clear the shelves and it looks like a war zone. They have a good variety of things to play with, yet, these little people don't seem to know how to play or care.

I have all under two. Parents expect more then to know the kids are just playing at this age- another frustration of mine.

I could have wrote your post. For those of you that have taken classes, schooling etc.... on this age group. What to do- Ideas?


I do want to respond to the one hour of inside time. I think common sense has to come into play for most days. Unless your running a program that the goverment is paying for- don't you get to decide for the most part how your day is being run? Who decides being out all day long is the best. The parents are not outside with the kids all day when they have them. If they were you would see a lot more families outdoors then you do. Don't take this wrong.....outside is good. I just find it hard to grasp onto a group deciding what is best for all, in a meeting. Ideas sound good until they are carried out by real people, really living. Sorry to rant....... How does it make your program have credit because you stayed outside all day long besides one hour? Hog Wash- Accreditation is not paying more- for home daycare. Why have to put up with so much do it my way or your not a club member? I like running my program the way that I want to run it. Having the flexibility, because most days it is needed. These programs would be more of a help if they were suggestions and not must do's. To me it is a form of adult bullying. My way or you don't get the certificate. I don't want to run like an institution. That is why I am a home daycare. I know to each their own- just stating how I feel and how I know many many other providers that are passionate about their jobs feel also.

[Heidi]

bump, bump and bump again.......

I am with you- Would love ideas. I have taken out, but still they clear the shelves and it looks like a war zone. They have a good variety of things to play with, yet, these little people don't seem to know how to play or care.

I have all under two. Parents expect more then to know the kids are just playing at this age- another frustration of mine.

I could have wrote your post. For those of you that have taken classes, schooling etc.... on this age group. What to do- Ideas?


I do want to respond to the one hour of inside time. I think common sense has to come into play for most days. Unless your running a program that the goverment is paying for- don't you get to decide for the most part how your day is being run? Who decides being out all day long is the best. The parents are not outside with the kids all day when they have them. If they were you would see a lot more families outdoors then you do. Don't take this wrong.....outside is good. I just find it hard to grasp onto a group deciding what is best for all, in a meeting. Ideas sound good until they are carried out by real people, really living. Sorry to rant....... How does it make your program have credit because you stayed outside all day long besides one hour? Hog Wash- Accreditation is not paying more- for home daycare. Why have to put up with so much do it my way or your not a club member? I like running my program the way that I want to run it. Having the flexibility, because most days it is needed. These programs would be more of a help if they were suggestions and not must do's. To me it is a form of adult bullying. My way or you don't get the certificate. I don't want to run like an institution. That is why I am a home daycare. I know to each their own- just stating how I feel and how I know many many other providers that are passionate about their jobs feel also.

Lol...my perspective was the opposite. Over the summer, I don't even want an hour of indoor "play" time. I'd rather spend my whole day outside and only come in for naps, or on really bad weather days. If you met my group and saw my house, you'd understand, believe me

I agree with the whole thing about this accreditation, which is what these star programs more or less are. Quality cannot always be quantified, and there are many different ways to give children quality experiences. My sister visited a provider of another ethnic group in Milwaukee last year. The children were playing peacefully, and the provider called them in to the livingroom to introduce my sister. They made eye contact, shook her hand, called her "miss ***", called the provider "miss ***", sat on the couch gently. The provider had a glass coffee table with a beautiful center piece that included glass marbles. Even the toddlers didn't touch it. I am sure that under FCCERS, that would "pose a substantial danger" to the children. In the real world, that is the grown-ups room, and you keep your hands off of Miss xx"s stuff!

[My3cents]

Lol...my perspective was the opposite. Over the summer, I don't even want an hour of indoor "play" time. I'd rather spend my whole day outside and only come in for naps, or on really bad weather days. If you met my group and saw my house, you'd understand, believe me

I agree with the whole thing about this accreditation, which is what these star programs more or less are. Quality cannot always be quantified, and there are many different ways to give children quality experiences. My sister visited a provider of another ethnic group in Milwaukee last year. The children were playing peacefully, and the provider called them in to the livingroom to introduce my sister. They made eye contact, shook her hand, called her "miss ***", called the provider "miss ***", sat on the couch gently. The provider had a glass coffee table with a beautiful center piece that included glass marbles. Even the toddlers didn't touch it. I am sure that under FCCERS, that would "pose a substantial danger" to the children. In the real world, that is the grown-ups room, and you keep your hands off of Miss xx"s stuff!

no I am with you- when its nice- get out and I do understand- I am going through the same thing! I didn't like that you are in fear of being inside too long because of FCCERS. Forget that. I like what you said above and bolded it. So true and I feel the same as I know many others do.

I would love ideas on the dumping and clearing of the shelves, stepping on toys, banging toys on windows,throwing toys- all to get my goat. How do you get these kid's to play. How do you get them to play nicely inside, when rules do apply more then free to roam outside. No respect for anything at such a young age. I get the development side of dumping, but when do they come out of this and how can I move in that direction as the role model. I am taxed when it comes to the NO word. I love these little guys but am finding myself spent come the end of the day. I am not burnt out, just looking to move past this stage as fast as possible and ways to make getting out of this stage better. I attribute it to the world we live in nowadays but these little's are bored in no time at all. Bored. I do the Nan method of GO PLAY TOYS, and try to not interfere with self play. My kids are only kids, and the parents world revolves around them (as it should be) It sounds like I have little horribles. I don't. I thought maybe it was the toys that I had, but it seems from past posting on this subject, I am right where I should be. Good variety of nice quality things. Anyway hoping to bump this up again for some good ideas-

[BigMama]

I see "fill and dump" as a type of play, very developmentally appropriate for a
1-2 year old. If children haven't had a lot of these types of experiences, I think this stage tends to last even longer. I would definitely expect the children to help clean-up, but not whole bins of blocks, etc. (A 3-4 year old yes, but not a 19 mo. old). It sounds like you are already limiting the number of toys that are out - that is good because when they get overstimulating or overwhelmed I think these types of behaviors increase. How is your playroom set-up? Do you have different areas that are clearly delineated? I found that my younger toddlers were wandering and randomly dumping until I made my areas more concrete. I think it helps them focus on what's what. Now they actually choose a toy and play with it. They might not manipulate the blocks into the shape sorter shapes, but may empty the shape sorter and fill it back up. I think that is more meaningful and focused than randomly pulling down a basket of blocks.

[Rachel]

How much are you limiting. I have kids between 6 months and 22 months. In the morning (before they come) I take out 2 - 3 toys. I have the trofast from Ikea and all the toys have their own bins pretty much. If they get bored with one, we put it away and take out another. I keep only the amount of toys that can fit in my system (plus a few bigger ones on shelves) out at a time, the rest are in a closet away and get rotated. When they stop playing (anywhere from 1 - 20 minutes) I ask if they want a new toy. Either they go back to playing, or start cleaning up so I can take out a new toy (I usually give them a choice of 2). It works pretty well, but only 2 of mine are really in teh "picking toys" stage. The babies play with whatever is out, and I put out a few baby toys for them also.

[Heidi]

I see "fill and dump" as a type of play, very developmentally appropriate for a
1-2 year old. If children haven't had a lot of these types of experiences, I think this stage tends to last even longer. I would definitely expect the children to help clean-up, but not whole bins of blocks, etc. (A 3-4 year old yes, but not a 19 mo. old). It sounds like you are already limiting the number of toys that are out - that is good because when they get overstimulating or overwhelmed I think these types of behaviors increase. How is your playroom set-up? Do you have different areas that are clearly delineated? I found that my younger toddlers were wandering and randomly dumping until I made my areas more concrete. I think it helps them focus on what's what. Now they actually choose a toy and play with it. They might not manipulate the blocks into the shape sorter shapes, but may empty the shape sorter and fill it back up. I think that is more meaningful and focused than randomly pulling down a basket of blocks.

Fill and dump is awesome...it the just dumping this, then moving on and dumping something else that is a little tougher. I am not really frustrated about it, just wondering.

My space is absolutely an issue. I have a small playroom 8 x 10 ft, that has my dramatic play in it, as well as most of the "toys". I don't have it spit up in 2 parts, although I have considered it. I could easily use my wooden kitchen as a divider (and still see over it easily).

There is a short hallway to the living/dinning/kitchen area. It is about 26 x 21, and that is all of it. Not huge. The bathroom is between the playroom and the main area. Because this is my house, and I don't have more designated space, I don't want a bunch of "daycare" stuff out here. I do have the art & science area set up out here, our book rack FULL of books, a set of cubbies, one for each child, and the dinning table, where we eat. The front porch is covered, and that has a child-sized table to eat at when weather cooperates. In nicer weather, I open the front door, gate off the stairs out to the yard, and let the kids go in-and-out. I love thatlovethis.

At this point, I have been considering making them keep the toys in the playroom. One problem is they drag everything out to the livingroom, and then run things across my coffee table (not a huge deal, but it's wear and tear). They don't actually play IN the playroom unless I insist. It's a pretty room, too. Dark green carpet, adorable sheers from Germany with sunflowers on them under red gingham check curtains, a wooden kitchen, pictures of kids playing (diverse), pictures of themselves, and a nice selection of toys.

Sorry this is long!

Once they've dragged everything to the livingroom and more or less abandoned it there, they move on to climbing on the couch, sliming the windows with spit, and pulling things from the cubbies. THen it's redirect, redirect. You can see why I'd rather be outside!

So, if we are only in for an hour, do I stick to playing in the rather small playroom, or continue to give them room to roam, but have them keep the toys in the playroom, or just let them take the toys all over, and deal? oh, and they throw them down the stairs the minute I turn my back, little buggers..

[melskids]

I have an "area" for toddlers...they can fill and dump until their heart is content.

They are always redirected back to this area.

I try to not let them dump or wipe out shelves in the other areas, because then its not fair to the kids who WANT to play and be engaged. I dont let them anywhere NEAR our preschool shelves either. (just for safety reasons..small parts)

Usually by two, they stop dumping and can join the older kids in other areas.

It Is alot of work to constantly redirect and teach them how to play, but in the end I think its worth it. Most of my kids can do some serious playing, and don't dump or make huge messes.

Although, I have one little stinker of a 4 yr old who purposely cleared out my whole room on Monday out of pure spite. (during a meltdown)

He also learned what happens after you do that. He lost his chance to join us in ALL the SUPER cool stuff I had planned....he was too busy cleaning up what he had done.

As far as FFCERS...we drag all the stuff outside with us..blocks, dress up, art, books, everything....it all goes out and we spend the whole day out there. Sometimes we even nap under the tree.

[Heidi]

I have an "area" for toddlers...they can fill and dump until their heart is content.

They are always redirected back to this area.

I try to not let them dump or wipe out shelves in the other areas, because then its not fair to the kids who WANT to play and be engaged. I dont let them anywhere NEAR our preschool shelves either. (just for safety reasons..small parts)

Usually by two, they stop dumping and can join the older kids in other areas.

It Is alot of work to constantly redirect and teach them how to play, but in the end I think its worth it. Most of my kids can do some serious playing, and don't dump or make huge messes.

Although, I have one little stinker of a 4 yr old who purposely cleared out my whole room on Monday out of pure spite. (during a meltdown)

He also learned what happens after you do that. He lost his chance to join us in ALL the SUPER cool stuff I had planned....he was too busy cleaning up what he had done.

As far as FFCERS...we drag all the stuff outside with us..blocks, dress up, art, books, everything....it all goes out and we spend the whole day out there. Sometimes we even nap under the tree.

One of the few things that I am worried about with outside-all-day is that the kids will miss opportunities to play with "indoor" toys. I suppose that is why the have the one hour minimum in the FFCERS. I think my plan is to try to have duplicates of many things outside. Some sort of blocks, some dress up things, a baby buggy with dolls, art supplies, etc. I even considering making some outdoor "centers". My only concern is what the weather will do to stuff if it rains. Maybe I will tarp everthing at night, every night.

As far as my observation goes, if we are spending all our time outside then (it will probably be in May or June0, I guess we will just be inside for an hour on observation day. I think the fact that we spend much less time outside over the winter will balance that the "excessive" outside time in summer. We will be in for naps, though. It's cooler, and I can get a few things done. If they are outside, I can't clean, get stuff ready, etc.

[MrsB]

I have big things of velcro on the bottom of my bins so they velcro to the shelves. The littler ones have a really difficult time getting the bin off to dump. I have to do it for them. Then they will get my attention when they need help to get the next one, of which time I can direct them to pick up the last one first. By the time they get strength or ability to pull it off the velcro they have learned to pick up before the next bin. Some people don like putting the velcro on their shelves, but its what works for me.

[My3cents]

I have big things of velcro on the bottom of my bins so they velcro to the shelves. The littler ones have a really difficult time getting the bin off to dump. I have to do it for them. Then they will get my attention when they need help to get the next one, of which time I can direct them to pick up the last one first. By the time they get strength or ability to pull it off the velcro they have learned to pick up before the next bin. Some people don like putting the velcro on their shelves, but its what works for me.

I am interested in this. Does the Velcro hold up? I used to have the bins and had to take them out because they would just dump and sit in the bins- broke a few this way, or turn them over and step on them, or wear them as hats. What kind of Velcro did you find worked the best? I have boys and would need something mighty rugged. I don't mind dumping a few of the shape sorters but I do mind when they just dump to dump and don't play they move on from one dump to another. Dumping and refilling is fine. I also had the big plastic buckets that are flexible for toys and again they just dump and play in the bucket. What would you say are the five top toys that your 1-2 year olds play with the most-besides the blocks, shape sorter? What are your top five toys that you have either taken out or don't care for, again for the 1-2 age group. Thanks again for all the lovely ideas and helps and bringing this topic to surface. It happens to go along with where I am at right now too in my program.

[MrsB]

You have to get the heavy duty velcro sheets. It has to pretty much the whole size of the bottom of the bin. I do this for my smaller and medium size bins. (farm animals, match box cars, my little ponies, dinosaurs, sea animals) For these I buy the super cheap bins with lids at walmart, dollar store, or target. I do have to replace a few a year but maybe 5-10 worth. Which I think would be reasonable for wear and tear.

My much larger bins, like the ones that they can climb into usually have things that are too heavy for them to pull off the shelf. I have one of those heavy duty metal utility shelves that you can adjust. I make the shelf heighth with hardly any clearance for the bin. It just slows them down a little. I also hang material on my shelves and it velcros to the front of the shelf. Kind of calms down the amount of visual stimuli. And then tie up each shelf curtain that I want them to have access to. Just my theory but I think sometimes shelves of toys is a little overwhelming to little ones and promotes the dump theory.

I had a problem with climbing in bins too, but now I have a good assortment of laundry baskets, boxes, & bins that they play with and can climb in that have been mostly donated. My little ones love this area, it is really great for their gross motor skills too, to climb in and out.

I always have a list of stuff that I am currently collecting in my newsletter. Like old sheets, big heavy cardboard boxes, laundry baskets, paper towel rolls, 1/2 gallon milk cartons, egg cartons, clip boards. Parents are always donating. It is just stuff that they are getting rid of anyway. I tell them don't donate it unless you are expecting it to get cut up, torn up, painted, and thrown away.

I splurged on a few of the fao schwarz cloth playsets that my 12-24 monthers really dig. Noah's ark, Sand Castle, dinosaurs They are plush

They love the touch and feel carboard books. I have 2 of those licensed themed foam fold out couches and the little ones love to curl up with a good book!

[nannyde]

I don't allow any dumping except for the infants play yards. They can dump to their little hearts content in those.

Once the kids are out on the playroom floor I don't allow ANYTHING to be dumped.

I know dumping is a skill they all need to learn but they do it at home. Even without any experience here they all are master dumpers. Even my little 13 month old could easily dump my entire playroom out in a few minutes. It's such an easy skill and they get so much practice at home that I don't feel obligated to host it here.

They can easily be trained that dumping at your home is unacceptable. You can also train them to NOT play with containers. We don't allow them to pick up containers or move them. If an item is in a container WE get it out for them. Once they have one by one removed the items from it the bin is off limits. The bins we have on the floor are not to be moved, climbed on, body parts in, or used to hold anything but what we have assigned for it.

With these rules we have ZERO dumping. The kids get wonderful exercise and fine motor play with "take out" and "put back". They don't get the thrill of "dump out" that lasts for a split second but they do get a good workout with our system.

My main reason for not allowing dumping and refilling is that I have found the amount of adult needed to get them to refill is too expensive for my small business. The amount of adult involvement to manage the climbing and playing with the bins is too expensive. The amount of time it takes to train them to not dump and to leave the containers alone is a very small amount of total time over their five years here. Managing the floor safety and the escalation that comes from dumping would be expensive. So we go day after day... year after year ... with a few minutes total of "no dumping" and "leave it" on the bins. It costs a few dollars a year to train my system. Requiring the refilling with free dumping would cost many hundreds a year in staff time. The wear and tear on the bins and containers and the prevention of injuries that would come with free use of the containers would be costly.

So my decision to not allow dumping is about money. It's not about growth and development. I would rather invest the staff time into things that are for the greater good like getting the laundry folded or checking play yard toys.