WHEN A DCP Punishments Are Too Much

[Unregistered]

I am a reg, but have logged out.

I have a DCF that is outstanding. They are very sweet and down to earth people. The parents are always so very considerate of all of my rules, family and home.

Well DCM is a very type "A" personality, the DCK is NOT. SHe has a very hard time with her child and is most of the reason why she brings her child to me.

DCK is very very sweet and good most of the time. I have had DCK for about 3.5 years. When DCK first started, the behavior was very difficult and grew even more difficult. I talked DCP into more days and all of a sudden I began to see a new child. Very calm, responsive to redirection, listens well and over all became a sweet loving child.

Well I have been noticing all of a sudden a change in behavior. DCK is not listening very well, talks back and even tried to hit me. SOmething that has never happened before.

Oddly enough, DCM tells me that she is reading this book and how it talks about using different methods of spanking your child??? DOn't know the name of the book. She tells me that just yesterday she was spanked with a belt..

I am at a loss here. I don't know what to say to the parents. I am sure this is why the change in behavior.

What would you do, what can I say.. BTW in no way do I think that the child is being abused...

[Unregistered]

Sorry I meant to say the DCM is type A personality, the DCK is not.


I also wanted to add that ZERO redirecting or time out is currently working with this child.

[cheerfuldom]

well....thats a tough one. spanking is not illegal and a parent does have the right to discipline that way. however, if you really feel that they are going overboard with this and abusing their child, it is your responsibility to report it.

[Unregistered]

Thank you so much for being the first one to help out.

I do not think in anyway that they are abusing their child. I do think however, that the child has realized that here there is NOTHING that I can do that will help them to understand the consequence of their actions.

What I see is that because they are using so much spanking for every little thing, that time out and redirection have no meaning to them anymore for this child. I think that unless the DCK is spanked, the DCK is not going to respond to the punishment or consequence and rebel. Of course I could not and would not spank any child, so that leaves me with no way to control the child now that they are immune to the softer consequences of timeout and redirecting...

[Kelly]

Hitting a child with a belt or anything other than the palm of your hand is not spanking. It is abuse.

[Unregistered]

Hitting a child with a belt or anything other than the palm of your hand is not spanking. It is abuse.

are you sure about that? I was not sure if it was or not???

[AmyLeigh]

are you sure about that? I was not sure if it was or not???

The problem with using an implement to spank is there is no way the parent can tell how hard the strike is. Using your hand, you know because you feel it too. In fact, the blow hurts the child's bottom more than your hand.
If you are seriously concerned about if spanking with an implement is considered abuse, contact your local CPS to find out if it is so. At any rate, I would definitely say something to the parents about it.

[AmyLeigh]

What I see is that because they are using so much spanking for every little thing, that time out and redirection have no meaning to them anymore for this child. I think that unless the DCK is spanked, the DCK is not going to respond to the punishment or consequence and rebel. Of course I could not and would not spank any child, so that leaves me with no way to control the child now that they are immune to the softer consequences of timeout and redirecting...

Have you told the parents this?

[SunshineMama]

The parents are spanking with a belt because they do not have any other resources that they are aware of to help this child to listen. I am sure that they do NOT want to spank this child at all, but they probably feel helpless and don't know what else to do. My guess is that they are loving parents who are trying to raise a decent human being and don't know how.

I am sure that they are not intentionally trying to abuse their child, although in my personal opinion I do believe that spanking with a belt is too much for a 3 year old girl. Are there welts/marks on her body at all? I would let the parents know that I empathize with their situation, however you have noticed some behavioral differences in this child since the spanking started and now you know why. I would let them know that, while you are not judging them, if she does come to your daycare with any mark on her body at all you are legally obligated to call CPS.

Will the parents be receptive to you providing some of the guidance tools that you use while she is in your care?

It sounds like the parents are desparate (ie mom is reading a discipline book- she is looking for help obviously, however misguided). It also sounds like they are inconsistent with their discipline.

[Country Kids]

I have one like that. Parents spank but child knows that I'm won't spank them and some days is totally out of control. Just laughs when I put them in time out. The minute the parents show up, knows they will be in trouble and walks a straighter line because they know they will get a spanking.

[MrsB]

Every state is different. Here in Maryland (corporal punishment state) you can use implements for spanking. Abuse is considered if there is a mark that remains after 24 hours of the "spank", regardless of what is used.

Maybe you could explain to mom, that you have noticed that her behavior is getting worse since the mom told you about starting to spank her. Maybe you could offer a different discipline book that corelates with your style.

I have termed a family because their discipline style was so different than mine that it was just aweful, she wasnt being abused. Just philosphy on raising children was too different and it wasn't a good fit. Too many mixed messages for the children.

[MarinaVanessa]

Hitting a child with a belt or anything other than the palm of your hand is not spanking. It is abuse.

This is correct. Spanking is hitting a child on the bottom with an open hand. Even spanking in this fashion is abusive if it leaves redness or any type of a mark. I'm not sure if every state is the same but I thought that this was typically the rule. If a child told me that a parent hit him/her with a belt I'd be forced to make a report.

[MrsB]

This is correct. Spanking is hitting a child on the bottom with an open hand. Even spanking in this fashion is abusive if it leaves redness or any type of a mark. I'm not sure if every state is the same but I thought that this was typically the rule. If a child told me that a parent hit him/her with a belt I'd be forced to make a report.

My personal feelings aside on the issue...

Generally speaking, hitting with an open hand on the bottom, is the accepted definition of spanking. However most states dont even use the word spanking in their laws because of the interpretation that goes into the word. Most use the term "corporal punishment" or "reasonable physical punishment" which both do not exclude the use of an instrument. More recently some states have tried to pass laws that exclude punishing with instruments, but most do not make the exclusion.

On the other hand, our job as providers is not to prove that the punishment was abuse or intepret the law, but to document and report "suspected" child abuse, not "proven" abuse.

[Ariana]

If it were me (who does not believe in any way shape or form in spanking as a reasonable discipline tactic) I'd be calling an immediate meeting with this parent and expressing my concerns. I would be pretty prepared with a myriad of statistics and research to back up my assertions that spanking leads to increased aggression. Perhaps this parent has absolutely no idea the mountain of research against spanking. I would then ask if she was on board with trying something new. I would list all the things that I was doing and the various ways they have helped and how I've noticed improvement.

Bottom line for me would be that unless she was on board with less violent ways of disciplining at home I would have no choice but to terminate care. For me it would represent a major interpersonal conflict in discipline practices. There is no way I would be able to respect this parent or see their discipline strategy as non-abusive. they would be much better off with someone who was more accepting of spanking as a way to discipline.