3 yr Old Behavior

[Unregistered]

I have a 3 yr old dcb who I've been having a lot of trouble with. He will push the other children down for no reason, hit them, kick them, etc. but it's not like he's mad or anything. He does it with the same expression he has just walking across the room, or looking at a book. It's not in anger, and the other children haven't done anything to him. He just randomly walks past, hits, and continues on his way. I consistantly do time-outs every time he hits or pushes, but he's ending up in time out practically all day! As soon as I let him up, he does it again. Time-outs wear me out, though, because he won't stay put. Lately he smiles before he runs off. He doesn't seem to understand why I even had him in time-out or why it's not ok to hurt someone. When I say, "Is it ok to hit?" he says yeah, with such a straight face I can tell he's not purposely trying to be difficult.
He also will NOT listen to me for anything! No matter what I ask him to do, he ignores me. Or throws a fit for the simplest things : Me- "Let's go wash hands" (trying to sound enthusiastic); dcb - "Noo!" ; me - "time for snack!" ; dcb - "NOO!" and runs. Or throws himself on the floor each time. If I physically try to move him to go wash hands (or whatever I've told him to do) after I've told him several times and he still won't, then he yells, cries, kicks and thrashes around when I try to physically direct him, or goes limp and refuses to walk. I give the "count down to the next activity (We're going inside in 5 minutes, then 2 minutes, then "time to go inside!). He still reacts the same way.
He throws his food on the floor when he's done with his plate or throws his sippy cup across the room. He repeatedly uses a certain "bad word", and the more I tell him not to, the more he repeats it, over and over and over again! If I ignore it, he STILL continues it once he's in that mood, which is always random, I never know what might lead up to it. The only thing I know of is to terminate, but I love his mom. She's so nice and always pays on time (she's the ideal parent to have when you're a daycare provider). She tries to work with me on this, but she has the same problems at home. He even hits and pushes her really hard. Lately he's been hitting me, too, when I put him in time-out or try to get him to do something. His mom doesn't let him by with everything, so I don't think it's bad parenting. What would you suggest? I'm so tired and this just cannot keep up. I'm worn out with it, and the other children aren't getting the attention and care they need because I'm so busy with this one child.

[momma2girls]

If you have tried everything, tell his Mom that you are going to give him a couple of weeks, with her assistance- do everything you can- then if not any better, you have no other choice but to terminate. It is definately not fair to you, the other children, the other parents, etc...... Definately try time outs and removing him, and not allow him to do a fun activity if he continues to be bad, think of whatever you can. Hopefully this will work!

[mac60]

I have a trying 3 yr old too, just not quite this bad, and he will stay in time out.

If I had this child, I would tell, explain to him each morning the rules, then, the first time he does it, he would be removed and separated from the group, sat on a chair, and there he would remain for a while. If he gets up and does it again, he would be removed and separated from the group, sat on a chair, and there he would remain for a while. If he did it a 3rd time in 1 day, he would be put in a different location and that is where he would be for the remainder of the day separated from the group for the remaining time. You are going to have to get really tough with him. 3 strikes and you are out for the day. At 3, he is old enough to know better and should be able to control his actions better than he is.

As far as terminating, you say the parents are good, I would not terminate.
As a teacher said to me once about a child that misbehaved and I commented that she would be glad when the year was over.......she just looked at me and said....Don't worry, there is always another to replace that one......

[momma2girls]

I have a trying 3 yr old too, just not quite this bad, and he will stay in time out.

If I had this child, I would tell, explain to him each morning the rules, then, the first time he does it, he would be removed and separated from the group, sat on a chair, and there he would remain for a while. If he gets up and does it again, he would be removed and separated from the group, sat on a chair, and there he would remain for a while. If he did it a 3rd time in 1 day, he would be put in a different location and that is where he would be for the remainder of the day separated from the group for the remaining time. You are going to have to get really tough with him. 3 strikes and you are out for the day. At 3, he is old enough to know better and should be able to control his actions better than he is.

As far as terminating, you say the parents are good, I would not terminate.
As a teacher said to me once about a child that misbehaved and I commented that she would be glad when the year was over.......she just looked at me and said....Don't worry, there is always another to replace that one......

Hopefully this will work, it sounds to me, that he is pretty bad though. It might, good luck!! He is old enough to know if he is seperated and doesn't get to do fun things like the rest of the children- he might begin to realize that he better be good or else.

[JJPlaycare]

I think it is terrible threes and not so much terrible twos! LOL I have some trying 3 year olds as well! The reason I think it is the 3 year olds that win over the phrase "terrible" is because they do know better, they do know how to communicate and yet still throw temper tantrums as if they had no words at all and they know when and where the best place to throw that fit is, they also begin to know how to be sneaky, they know oh so well how to push your buttons, and the list goes on and on........ I would just remain consistent with him, and I would also do as mentioned above and MAKE SURE mom is on the same page as you!!! Alot of my parents use the famous line of, "They don't see the behavior as much as I do because they don't see them around other children as much as I do" hahaha Just keep your cool and be firm and consistent, it won't take long for him to get it!! What about putting him in a time out and doing something with the other kids that he really enjoys, make him feel the time out and how much he is missing out when he behaves badly? Well I hope you stay stronger than he and keep your foot down, but make sure mom is doing this as well or you will have a never ending battle on your hands! : (

[Unregistered]

You said mom has done everything? has she taken him to a dr to rule out any disorders or even hearing loss that could be causing this child to behave like this? I think it's great that you are being so patient, i for one will not allow abuse of any kind by anyone around me, (im ver clear during interviews about what is acceptable normal child behavior compared to being a bully) the dcb is old enough to know better than to act like that and its one thing for him to hit his mother but the first time he hit me would be the last, as for him hitting and kicking the other kids, its not fair to them to have to go someplace everyday that is suppose to be a safe haven only to never know when they are going to be attacked, again though i have issues with abuse from anyone and its not as if the boy is a one year old not wanting to share a toy, he is purposely trying to hurt others and as far as him smiling when he gets up and walks out of time out? ya! he knows better, id suggest to mom that she take him in and that if its not better in two weeks he's out andhopefully during that time his behavior doesnt cause another of your dck to get seriously hurt. Good Luck
Kiddie Care

[Unregistered]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!
I don't think his mom has actually had him tested for anything, but it was mentioned to her at one time and she didn't seem to take to the idea very well... I myself have wondered, though, if something is wrong with him. He seems developmentally delayed (he seems more on the level of a 21 mo old I have. He seems really young for 3. When he hits or pushes, he doesn't look like he even knows what he's doing. Sometimes, but not very often, he'll be able to tell me why I put him in time-out, but it's like he doesn't understand that it's not ok to hit. He has a one track mind for tractors. When I try to talk to him about what he did, he goes on talking about tractors, or "look at that tractor over there", etc. I try bringing his mind back to why he's in time-out, but he can't seem to focus on anything but tractors.
JJPlayCare: When I put him in time-out he will NOT stay put. He runs off immediatly and refuses to come back to his chair without my having to go to him and physically move him back to it. As soon as I stand up to attend to another child, he's off and running again. So trying to do a fun activity without him doesn't work because he won't sit in time-out without me holding him in his chair. I know that's just giving him one-on-one attention, but I don't know what else to do because I really want him to learn that he gets time-out (and has to sit there until I let him up) everytime he hits. If he's not in his chair, he goes over to someone else and hits them.
What do you all suggest for his tantrums over any change in activity? No matter what it is, even what any other child gets excited about (like snack time), he'll cry and tell me "NOOO", and throw himself on the floor. Legally I can't refuse a snack to him if he doesn't come to the table when everyone else does (I think that falls under the "discipline is not to be associated with food or rest". Not even supposed to take a plate away from him when he throws his food on the floor). Like I said in my original post, I've tried giving him a count down and letting him know when we'll be switching activities, but as soon as it's time, it's as if he had no idea it was coming and it throws him for a loop. When I go up to him individually and let him know there's five min til... he doesn't pay any attention to it. He tells me about his tractor or something instead.

[JJPlaycare]

I have a 3 year old little boy who sounds just like your little guy!! I wrote about him in a different post, he basically does nothing for himself, really lacking in the independece spectrum!! He is using the potty, but he can't pull his pants up or down! He doesn't hit and kick, but he will always lay or sit on the other kids, he just loves to harass all of the other kids, they all get very annoyed! He is EXTREMELY spoiled at home! He has a 14 year old sister, a mom and grandma who absolutely baby him and a dad who is out of the country for 3 months and home for a month and when he is home he spends all of his time with his son, which isn't a bad thing, but he is SPOILED! He is completly obsessed with John Deere Tractors as well!! HAHA Are you sure we aren't sharing this DCK? LOL He cannot follow simple directions he just babbles on about tractors this, tractors that, whenver I try to get him to do anything!! I have not said anything to mom, because honestly like I said above she is the problem along with the rest of his family because they treat him like a 1 year old!! However he DOES stay in time out, but honestly he could careless about it, he sings/hums to himself, plays with his socks, his pant legs or shirt, he really could careless and I feel like he doesn't listen to me when I ask him why he is in time out and how we are going to change his behavior he just talks about tractors. He does go and tell the other child "Sorry", he has that phrase really figured out! HAHAHA I really don't know what to do either and I am not sure how to get a child to stay in time out other than to keep putting him back when he does get out and eventually he will get it? I don't know!! I did tell mother of my 3 year old that she needs to send him to a preschool program, we have a program here that starts at 3 years!! I have such a mixed age group, that I told his mother that I think it would be very beneficial for him to be surrounded with peers his same age and maybe he will be able to catch on to things more easily!! : ) I don't know what to tell you, but good luck!! : )

[Unregistered]

Regardless of WHY he is acting like this (delayed or just bad behavior)he is causing you NOT to be able to care for the other kids in a way that they deserve, he is taking to much of your attention for bad behavior. As for him throwing his food on the floor? He'd be cleaning and i dont care what the state says if that happened i WOULD NOT give him more and if he refuses to come to the table during our SCHEDULED snack or meal times he would not eat! It really sounds as if this has been going on for a while and if he hasnt changed or gotten better make mom take him in for testing, not that i think a diagnosis of any type would make me continue care for a child like that due to the fact that there are other children in my care that arent getting the attention they need because of the extra work he is demanding from you. I know its hard to turn away a child because they dont behave 'normaly' but you really need to consider the other kids.
KC

[AmandasFCC]

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I have a 3 yr old dcb who I've been having a lot of trouble with. He will push the other children down for no reason, hit them, kick them, etc. but it's not like he's mad or anything. He does it with the same expression he has just walking across the room, or looking at a book.

I have a 3yo who started out doing exactly this in my daycare. What finally got him to stop for me was having him sit by me, playing with only toys that I gave him, for half an hour at a time. AFter that half hour, I'd ask him if he was ready to play nicely with his friends, he'd say yes, and off he'd go. Usually he would go to another corner of the room to play by himself. If he hit/kicked/pushed/whatever again, back he'd come to sit beside me, playing only with the little car that I gave him, with no interaction whatsoever. Do that as many times as it takes.

He throws his food on the floor when he's done with his plate or throws his sippy cup across the room. He repeatedly uses a certain "bad word", and the more I tell him not to, the more he repeats it, over and over and over again! If I ignore it, he STILL continues it

I strictly enforce table manners. We may speak nicely, and quietly, and PROPERLY to each other at the table, but we absolutely may NOT be goofy or rude. They get ONE warning. Then their food gets taken away and they get sent to the hall. I had a pair of 4yo's who were a nightmare at meals, saying really goofy, weird things or pestering the others. It only took 2 times of their food getting taken away and them sitting in the hall while everyone else got to eat, then watch a cartoon, for them to knock it off. Seriously.

I used to try ignoring or being nice about it, rewarding good behaviour with stickers, all that "nice" stuff, but I found very quickly it didn't work at all for the behavioural nightmares I had in my daycare, and in my first year doing this, that is ALL I had, was poorly behaved, aggressive PITAs, I hate to say it. Put your foot down.

[Daycare Mommy]

Food sensitivities can do unbelievable things to their behavior. I had one that was night and day on and off dairy... You just would not believe it was the same kid. Think the little girl in the Exorcist vomitting pea soup while her head is spinning and then think Shirley Temple. Yes, it was that big a difference with a simple change of diet. I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't seen it.

Also he might just be using the tractor thing as a way to change the subject and ignore you, but then having an intense interest in one thing like that and being so inward focused that they don't hear you at times is common in Asperger's Syndrome which is a high functioning kind of autism.

Mom really does need to take him in to rule out anything medical.

[fctjc1979]

The kids in my daycare who are the biggest trouble makers usually behave better on days devoted to their interests. Perhaps if you had several days in a row that were devoted to tractors, the timeouts would show him how much he misses because he doesn't control himself. It sounds to me like he's bored and this is most likely caused by a medical problem, like others have mentioned, or he doesn't care about the activities and toys at your daycare. That doesn't mean you haven't provided him with enough toys or activities, I'm not saying that, but he might just not care about what other kids his age care about.

[Unregistered]

Okay, I've looked up the symptoms of autism and asperger's syndrome, and he seems to have so many of these symptoms (some not so much, but others describe him to a T) that I think it would be a really good idea for his mom to have him tested. But like I've mentioned, the one time it was mentioned to her that maybe something may be wrong with him, or that he may be developmentally delayed (I don't remember exactly now), but she just didn't seem to take to the idea very well. Almost offended by it, although she seems at the end of her rope of knowing what to do, or why he acts like he does.
Have any of you ever had to mention to a parent that maybe they should have their child tested for anything? I really don't want to offend her or make her mad. We have a great parent-provider relationship. Almost like friends and wouldn't want to mess that up! Any ideas of what I could say and how to word it?
I also have a 2 yr old that I've wondered if he might have a mild form of autism, and a lot (actually the majority) of those symptoms describe him, but I guess since he's younger I'm able to ignore the behavior a little easier and chalk it up to age. Anyway, even before I had this 3 yr old begin daycare here, I wondered about the 2 yr old and looked up symptoms of mild autism. But I don't want to sound like I'm just going around and self-diagnosing all the kids here! How likely is it that I'd have two boys with autism, neither of them diagnosed yet, nor the parents looking into it or mentioning it to us when I tell them about their behavior that day (or pattern of behavior)? They both just have so many of the symptoms that now I think the parents of both boys need to consider it, for the children's sake.

[Unregistered]

I have had to suggest twice that a parent take a child in for testing, the first one years ago had two half siblings by same mom that had developemental delays and dads mom was a lead teacher for mentally disabled at the school for over 20 years(lots of experiance), well this dcb was horrible! I went out of my way to help going to special classes, anyway dcd was a major pig! Had no respect for women and although i was the second daycare provider along with his own mother to tell him the child needed help he refused to accept that there was anything wrong, i ended up terminating after he had agreed to allow the state to come to my daycare to asses the dcb only to cancel saying dcb was normal and fine. That boy did some of the things you are describing.
I'd either or both talk to dcm and or give her a written notice, something that says, this is a follow up to the verbal conversations we have had about ***x behavior, tell her that in your experiance his behavor goes beyond that of the average childs misbehavior and that you have done everything you can to help make it better but nothing has changed and you need to be able to provide a healthy safe environment for all the kids so while you greatly care for them you will be unable to provide childcare after this date ***x unless the child has been seen,diagnosed and something being done about the behavior (ie:that he's medicated or given the tools needed as in modeling and stuff),just talk calmly to her and assure her that its better to be safe than sorry and if there is something wrong the sooner he gets help the better and if there isnt anything wrong then you'll know he just has bad behavior, btw the reason i finally gave up on the dcb i terminated for bad behavior was because i had dck coming to me asking if he was gonna be coming and getting upset when he'd show up, i realized how unfair i had been to them beacuse of wanting to 'help' this one child.
kiddie care

[fctjc1979]

Daycare Mommy mentioned food sensitivities. Maybe you could tell the mother that you are concerned that might be the problem in this case. Tell her you think she should take her son to the doctor, explain the symtoms, and then ask if it could be food sensitivity. Tell her you could write a letter to the doctor explaining what you see on a daily basis if that would help. That way, if it is autism or Ausbergers, the doctor can be the one to suggest it. And if it really is food sensitivity, the doctor would know that too.