Need Help With A Behavior Plan-Sorry Long!

[Heidi]

so, mom and I have agreed to put together a behavior plan for 4 yo. The one who throws tantrums for every "no" he gets, and often generally wants to rule the roost. Obviously, the kid is getting some sort of pay off, or he wouldn't still do it after 7 months here. These are control tantrums, not "I'm sad" or overwhelmed tantrums. He just does not want to be told NO.

Our plan so far:
1. say it and mean it (mom mostly on this one).
2. Don't avoid confrontation (I think mom often does this, and it's makes him feel powerful because he can sense it).
3. use some sort of sticker system
4. consistency with rules (he is very black and white, so my "flexibility" comes off as confusing for him. This one's on me).

Here is were I really need:

Mom would like to add some sort of sticker or reward system where he can earn Legos. I am not a huge fan of external reward systems, but we have to do something!
'
We need details. How do you quantify it? He goes to a structured preschool, and does very well there with only 4 year olds (and no sibs). I think maybe we should break down the day in 3 parts. AM,PM, and Evening. School will be an easy success, so I think it's important to give for those, even though he does not have issues there.

Does he get a sticker only if he has no meltdowns? Or, if he has a meltdown, but removes himself from the room? Or, if he starts one, and stops himself when warned(once)? So far, if I have asked him to leave the room to cool down, he's refused, and I've had to physically move him out. He's 60 pounds and won't stay, so it becomes a war over that.

If he blows it 5 minutes into the afternoon, then he has license to be a freak the rest of the afternoon?

The other behaviors we would be addressing are specifically getting his own stuff handled (he likes to throw his backpack on the grass and say "mom will get it", and refuse to get into the car or go to bed.

How many stickers does he need to collect to earn his reward? It can't be too easy, but not unattainable, either. He has the potential to earn 21 stickers per week. Do you think 15 would be fair to "purchase" a prize? We would make some sort of pages together with 15 (or whatever number we decide on) spaces. When the spaces are filled, he gets the prize. Bonus: he learns numbers and counting as well.

My instinct is to address one behavior-the tantrums, because it's the worst worst worst for all of us.

Lastly, mom thinks we should include the 3yo sister, but her behavior isn't 1/10th of what this boy does. I dont think they should get the message that everyone gets the same, and I really don't feel like she needs the sticker system here (it would be more work than anything for me).

OK experts....tell me what you think! Mom and I will be discussing this via phone meeting tonight, and then I want to sit down with dcb and lay out the plan TOGETHER.

[Cat Herder]

Ugh, honestly I'd not be willing to do the rewards system with this.

I'd be more inclined towards a consequence instead.

IMHO, rewards are for learning NEW behaviors...consequenses are for re-enforcing old ones.

I'd stick with # 1, 2 and 4. Then, encourage Mom to use #3 at home is she in insistent.

[Meyou]

Why is getting a reward for behaving how he should be anyway?

[Heidi]

I agree 100%, but I've got nothing left, ladies! It's that or loose 4/5 kids, so I am willing to try for a while. If it doesn't help, I will terminate, but I have not received any calls since October, so that is not an easy decision to make financially.

[Cat Herder]

OK , have you checked out the Chuck E Cheese site (maybe even local childrens museums, zoo's, etc., too)?

They have FREE printable behavior charts that the boy can then redeem at the restaurant/arcade WITH his Mom.

Maybe it will benefit the situation by encouraging more fun family time, too? Everyone can benefit from that. The reward would be TIME instead of STUFF...

That is my "parenting advice goal" for the year for my siblings and their kids (I am the oldest)....so...

[Solandia]

Have you ever read "the explosive child?", I can't remember the author off the top of my head. It describes my oldest to a "T". In a nutshell, it basically is a helping a child control himself when there is a significant difference between their age and their emotional/behavioral response to situations. This boom literally saved my dd from being drugged or institutionalized...prior to this, we were told over and over that her inability to cope was all our fault and inconsistent parenting, even though we were a bazillion times more strict/zero tolerance than anyone... Told that we were liars, and must give in to bad behavior or she wouldn't be so horrible for us.

I think the behavior plan needs to be broken down further, you need to explicitly teach dcb appropriate reactions and how to recognize his own so that he can control BEFORE he rages. With some kids, a consequence is meaningless, because at the time of the rage/tantrum, they absolutely cannot consider a consequence.

[Heidi]

this is the part that I really need help with...

Does he get a sticker only if he has no meltdowns? Or, if he has a meltdown, but removes himself from the room? Or, if he starts one, and stops himself when warned(once)? So far, if I have asked him to leave the room to cool down, he's refused, and I've had to physically move him out. He's 60 pounds and won't stay, so it becomes a war over that.

[Cat Herder]

If he can calm himself, THAT I'd consider a success...happyface

I'd tell him how proud of him I was....that is HARD. I know grown men who stink at it. ::

We ALL have meltdowns....it is how we learn to control ourselves and apologize for any outbursts (at a later age) that makes the difference.

My current (newly) 3yo will grip his fists, then run to plop into the beanbag chair, face first. He yells into it for a minute...then walks over to tell me what "made me mad", "hurt my feelings" or "was not fair". I then take it from there.... I am SOOOOO proud of this little guy. Smarty pants, he is...By next year I expect to see no more yelling at all from him.

[Heidi]

Does he get a sticker only if he has no meltdowns? Or, if he has a meltdown, but removes himself from the room? Or, if he starts one, and stops himself when warned(once)? So far, if I have asked him to leave the room to cool down, he's refused, and I've had to physically move him out. He's 60 pounds and won't stay, so it becomes a war over that.

I talked to an friend who runs a head start, and she says when someone tantrums, they move the REST of the class to another room with one staff member to do something fun to do, and the other staff member stays behind with the tantrumer, doing paperwork or something benign (to not give attention to it). I can't move 3 toddlers and a 3 yo away, nor do I have an assistant. Yesterday, he threw a fit a foot from the stove I was cooking lunch on. I had to move him. Not going to turn off the stove (which takes forever to cool down), move the whole group, and risk him burning himself, never mind delaying lunch for 3 hungry toddlers while he "worked it out" Not realistic!

[Blackcat31]

I am probably not much help in this department either because I am so not into external rewards for expected nbehavior either buuuuut:

....with my own son, he was a dificult kid so we had to approach many things from another angle just so he would "get it" kwim? So instead of rewarding him for good (expected) behavior why not simply have a consequence for bad behavior like Catherder suggested?

For example, why doesn't mom maybe give him say $5 in quarters each week (or break it down to days if necessary) and every time he has a negative or unwanted behavior, he needs to "pay" you or mom a quarter for his actions. Then if at the end of the week, he has any money left he can spend it on Legos.

In my mind that is a bit different than rewarding and doesn't send the wrong message to the kid that he automatically is entitled to some sort of reward for doing things everyone else does normally which is behave well. (not sure if that really does make any sense or not but like I said, "in my mnd" it does...but I also have a lot of weird stuff going on in my mind so...LOL!! )

This kid may just be a really concrete thinker (you mentione him being very black and white) as was my son and he responded much better to having something concrete that he had to lose rather than the non-tangible promise of a reward later. Hope that makes sense but sometimes it isn't what we do (rewarding and punishing) it is more how we do it that hits home for a kid.

[Angelwings36]

I honestly don't feel you should use a sticker "reward" system and this is why. Once the sticker rewards are gone a.k.a the child is no longer showing the bad behaviour anymore so there is no need to keep up with the program, the child will learn that if he behaves bad the sticker rewards will come back.

Consistency is key when you want to teach a child that a bad behaviour is not ok anymore. Leave the sticker system for a situations such as: using manners, sharing, etc...

[Cat Herder]

I honestly don't feel you should use a sticker "reward" system and this is why. Once the sticker rewards are gone a.k.a the child is no longer showing the bad behaviour anymore so there is no need to keep up with the program, the child will learn that if he behaves bad the sticker rewards will come back.

Consistency is key when you want to teach a child that a bad behaviour is not ok anymore. Leave the sticker system for a situations such as: using manners, sharing, etc...

The Mom is insisting......

It won't hurt her to go along with it for 30 days...then re-evaluate. If it worked at all, great...if not...plan B.

Sometimes a 30 day concession to show good will/intent can save a working relationship with a client.

[Angelwings36]

The Mom is insisting......

It won't hurt her to go along with it for 30 days...then re-evaluate. If it worked at all, great...if not...plan B.

Sometimes a 30 day concession to show good will/intent can save a working relationship with a client.

This I do understand!

[Ariana]

IMO he gets a sticker when he verbalizes his frustration INSTEAD of tantrumming. After 5 stickers he gets a bigger sticker, then when he wins 3 big stickers he gets a prize. I would try and make the prize something emotionally rewarding like spending one on one time with mom at the movies. It is extremely important to get him to channel his anger into something else (verbalizing, blowing into a pretent balloon) rather than stuff it down for rewards. This will teach him a lifelong skill that will improve his life considerably and possibly keep him out of jail.

[Countrygal]

Have you ever read "the explosive child?", I can't remember the author off the top of my head. It describes my oldest to a "T". In a nutshell, it basically is a helping a child control himself when there is a significant difference between their age and their emotional/behavioral response to situations. This boom literally saved my dd from being drugged or institutionalized...prior to this, we were told over and over that her inability to cope was all our fault and inconsistent parenting, even though we were a bazillion times more strict/zero tolerance than anyone... Told that we were liars, and must give in to bad behavior or she wouldn't be so horrible for us.

I think the behavior plan needs to be broken down further, you need to explicitly teach dcb appropriate reactions and how to recognize his own so that he can control BEFORE he rages. With some kids, a consequence is meaningless, because at the time of the rage/tantrum, they absolutely cannot consider a consequence.

My ds was the same. I agree with what is said here, except, he seems to be able to behave at preschool. My son couldn't behave anywhere - 4-H, church, friend's house, grandmas'. His behavior was the same everywhere. He would never have behaved in a preschool setting.

Makes me think it is something with the consistency. Have you tried a really consistent schedule? Just a thought. I know that used to help my ds.

I wonder if you could meet with his preschool teacher and bring her in on the behavior plan. That would certainly help with the consistency! If all of you were on the same page, it may help everyone, but especially the child! (I'll bet they are not handing out legos for good behavior at preschool! )