New Kid Is Driving Me Up The Wall!!

[Hunni Bee]

I really don't like posting multiple times about the same situation, but I don't think I was clear in the last one, and plus I'm at my wit's end.

I got a new four year old the first of the year. He does not fit in with my other kids. He's disobedient, disruptive and really rambunctious.

He does not listen to any of the teachers. You have to tell him the same thing four or five times before he even looks at you, let alone does it. Time-out and loss of privileges do no good, and redirection is constant.

To me, its very dangerous to have a child who ignores instructions because if he were ever in danger, he would not listen then either.

Some specific behaviors include:

--Never sitting in a chair (at mealtimes, etc). Standing, kneeling, flipping the chair over, ramming the chair into other kids.

--Running, jumping, trampling, pushing other kids, inside the building.

--Generally doing things he shouldn't - squirting out massive amounts of soap, going into the refrigerator, waking up sleeping kids at nap...ALL THE TIME.

--Ignoring directions or repeatedly doing something he's asked not to.

I work in a center, so I do not have the power to term him. I asked the director and she said document his behavior daily, but I still don't know what to do WITH him. I really haven't had a child so far that didn't listen to anyone.

[countrymom]

I guess little tommy needs to be your shadow. You need to be like glue on this child, I know its hard but you need to catch him right away. As for the not listening, maybe you need to get down on his level and talk directly to his face.

[Blackcat31]

Your director needs to have a plan in place for these types of situations. Besides documenting his negative behaviors, your director or the lead teacher should have some sort of plan that outlines your strategies and actions for this.

This plan should include clear consequences for specific behaviors and a meeting should also be set up with the director, any staff (who has hands on care with the child) and the child's parents. During this meeting the specific behaviors should be discussed and together a plan of action should be written and followed. There is no way you should be left to figure this out on your own.

I would also look up your state licensing rules in regard to discipline policies and plans for such situations. My state has very specific rules when it comes to centers.

[Daycaremomof2]

DSM-IV Criteria for ADHD

It sounds like he needs behavioral intervention. A 4 year old definitely knows better. I do not like to throw out the ADHD diagnosis because it is overused a lot but sometimes it is a valid diagnosis. I posted the official ADHD diagnostic information that doctors use when evaluating a child- if you notice that this child is experiencing any of these I would take the information to your director:


DSM-IV Criteria for ADHD
I. Either A or B:

A.Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have been present for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

Inattention

1.Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.

2.Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.

3.Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.

4.Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).

5.Often has trouble organizing activities.

6.Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).

7.Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).

8.Is often easily distracted.

9.Is often forgetful in daily activities.

B.Six or more of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have been present for at least 6 months to an extent that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

Hyperactivity

1.Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.

2.Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected.

3.Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless).

4.Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly.

5.Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".

6.Often talks excessively.

Impulsivity

1.Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished.

2.Often has trouble waiting one's turn.

3.Often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games).

II.Some symptoms that cause impairment were present before age 7 years.

III.Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g. at school/work and at home).

IV.There must be clear evidence of significant impairment in social, school, or work functioning.

V.The symptoms do not happen only during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder. The symptoms are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g. Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).

Based on these criteria, three types of ADHD are identified:

1.ADHD, Combined Type: if both criteria 1A and 1B are met for the past 6 months

2.ADHD, Predominantly Inattentive Type: if criterion 1A is met but criterion 1B is not met for the past six months

3.ADHD, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type: if Criterion 1B is met but Criterion 1A is not met for the past six months.

[Blackcat31]

Diagnosis for ADHD/ADD before age 5 is VERY difficult. Children who lack good self-control or self-regulation skills due to being socially immature or due to 'bad' parenting are often mis-diagnoses with ADHD/ADD and I find that really sad.

I would be very hesitant to suggest a child has ADHD/ADD to a parent. I would look at every aspect of his behavior, the environment, parenting style and routines both at home and child care before thinking ADHD/ADD right away.

I also think that the diagnosis of ADHD/ADD is often over used.

[Christian Mother]

My son was diagnosed with ADHD "Inattentive" 3 yrs ago. At age 5 through 6yrs where the toughest on us as parents and I was all over the place feeling like I was a bad parent bc my son was out of control and doing things I think maybe are typical of a 6yr old but there where a lot more issues. School was on the top of my list however bc his first grade teacher could not get him to focus on his studies and I was already having problems getting him to listen and pay attention to me. I finally had a break down and ask the school councilor to just pop into his classroom and observe but also talk with his teacher on her concerns but she was kind enough to listen to mine. She strongly felt that he was ADHD "Inattentive" she said that she would bring in the child phycologist in as well to sit down with our son to see what was going on in his head and what she came back with is that he did not understand why he couldn't focus or pay attention only that he couldn't and he was frustrated and upset. He didn't like fighting with me and arguing with his father. So their where some issues there mentally that was stressing him out. The teachers found him to be extremely smart and intelligent but he lack the ability to pay attention...noises of any sort easy distracted him so if a door opened or the fan was on he'd pin point those sounds and direct in on them...the counselor was able to point out on 10 diff. times with in 6 min his redirection and having to again focus on the task at hand. After feeling out a questionnaire as well as his teacher we where able to give it to his Pediatrician who is a wonderful doctor who can treat ADHD and he's on a wonderful medication that is I haven't had any problems with. He takes it at night before he goes to bed and is good to go for the rest of the day!!

[Kaddidle Care]

He does sound like an ADHD kid. When you speak to him, make sure you say his name first and make sure you have eye contact with him. (Make sure it's not a hearing problem first.)

If he doesn't respond the first time, react the first time - go and take his hand and lead him to where you need him to go.

Be on him like white on rice so that he doesn't harm the other children. If he continues to misbehave, bring him to the Director each time he does something that's way out of line or harmful. She needs to step in before he chases away your good clients.

Best wishes and keep us posted!

[Hunni Bee]

Thanks you all.

He's only four, so I am wary of attaching an ADHD label to him. His inability to sit and general squirmy-ness kind of remind me of it, though. But I really don't think its the case.

I don't think so because most of his behaviors look like choices, instead of impulses. Because now his naughtiness and disobedience are being accompanied by frowny faces, shouts of "No!" and running away. As if it wasn't bad enough already.

My latest discipline plan for him is, if he refuses to listen or obey instructions during whatever we are doing, then his participation in that activity is over. Until he chooses to listen. And that goes for anything, circle time, centers, outside...but also clean up, lunch, nap, etc. Of course I don't deny him food or sleep, but he may not participate in it with the rest of us.

He was quite upset about it, but it seemed to work some today, so I'm hoping for a better week next week.

I'll keep you posted.