Panties In The Toilet And Other Sneaky Behavior

[Heidi]

Now I have a decision to make.

4 of my 5 children are from one family. The 15mo twins started back in May, and in June, when I got my license, the older 2 joined the group. g is 3, b is 4.

There have been a lot of behavioral issues with the older children, although we have worked through alot. The younger ones have now started some of the behaviors-throwing fits, hitting or kicking me when they are told no, running off instead of comming to me when asked to. I could deal with all this, I don't like it, but we can work on it.

The problem is that the 3yo girl is so sneaky. She is fully potty trained, so she should be completely independent in the bathroom. Once, a month or so ago, she flushed her panties down the toilet. We had to take apart our pump and look for them. Did not find them, and we had no further problems

This morning, the whole system backed up, and my dh has now spent the last 2 hours digging in sewage to take the pump apart, only to find not only the panties but several washcloths.

I cannot take the time to go with her to the bathroom every time she goes! I shouldn't have to. There are 4 other children who need me here.

My dh has never been thrilled about me doing childcare. This is NOT making him feel better about it.

This little girl has done a lot of more minor sneaky things. Basically, if it's accesible, she will get into it. I would expect this behavior of a toddler, but not a 3 yo. Obviously, the house is "baby proofed", but a 3 yo can get into a lot of things that are in baby proofed. Usually, by this age they have developed some self control, and one has to worry less about external controls. Obviously, chemicals and knives are locked up, and outlets are covered. But, if a pen were laying on the counter or in a desk drawer, she would think nothing of taking it (while I am changing a diaper or in the bathroom, let say) and drawing all over the cabinets or walls. Or, crawling under the table and ripping a book to shreds.

I need to decide if I should keep this family. I would gladly keep just the toddlers, but between the 4 yo's temper tantrums and the 3 yo's sneakiness and defiance, I am just not sure . Honestly, it may be me. I am just not equiped to spend every moment shadowing this child. I do not have those kind of resources. I am in a home, so it is just me here, and there are plenty of appropriate activites to choose from.

If I terminate, what do I tell the family?

BTW:, this family is basically getting care for one of the children for free because that is all they could afford. Their contract runs out at the end of the year.

[Kaddidle Care]

Well it sounds like because of the problems the 3 year old has caused, your husband is against you doing childcare. That's enough reason for me to terminate.

You need his backing to do this. Goofy things happen with kids - but if he has to come home to more work because of it, and it's not even your own kids doing it, I don't blame him.

Obviously the 3 year old needs more supervision. If you can't do it, send them on. The whole litter sounds like a handful.

[wdmmom]

Destructive behavior is grounds for termination here.

And, I don't think I would renew their contract. I'd give them notice. There is no way I could have 80% of my livelyhood wrapped up in one family. I don't offer sibling groups a discount anymore for this reason!

[Sunshine44]

Term if you feel you should

Term if you feel you should. I would be upset, but wouldn't term. I'd find more ways to control the kid and keep a better eye on her.

Yes, three year olds can sometimes play or do stuff alone, but they are three. They are not 'kids', they are preschoolers/toddlers who need supervision. I know a lot of three year olds who if they came across a pen, would take it and find something to write on.

This child should not be stuffing things down the toilet, but you should go with her to the restroom. I think if you cannot do this,then it will continue to happen and you should just term. You know she will do it...so you need to take action.

[Heidi]

Thanks for the input ladies!

After calming down and further investigation, I realize that none of these things could have gone down the toilet recently. They must have been put in the downstairs toilet, and the children have not used that one for about a month. Apparently, they were hovering under the pump somewhere.


We knew about the panties, and I have been trying to keep a much closer eye on her time in the bathroom since then. So, I will just have to keep doing that.

I know she is still little, and things have gotten a lot better with her, so I will just have to continue to keep a better eye on her.

It would help a lot if I could find another girl her age for my group, especially one that is a strong "player". Her older brother is not, so she has never had that behavior modeled for her. I've had no luck with that.

[nannyde]

The younger ones have now started some of the behaviors-throwing fits, hitting or kicking me when they are told no, running off instead of comming to me when asked to. I could deal with all this, I don't like it, but we can work on it.

You lost me right there. I wouldn't tolerate that for a day.

The problem is that the 3yo girl is so sneaky. She is fully potty trained, so she should be completely independent in the bathroom.

I don't allow any of the kids in the bathroom unsupervised. They can do thousands of dollars worth of damage in a matter of seconds. You must supervise them because they have your home and your bank account in their hands when they have access to your plumbing.

I've known a provider who had ten grand worth of water damage done to their home by one kid one day. ONE unsupervised trip to the bathroom and a couple of hours is all it took.

Once, a month or so ago, she flushed her panties down the toilet. We had to take apart our pump and look for them. Did not find them, and we had no further problems

This morning, the whole system backed up, and my dh has now spent the last 2 hours digging in sewage to take the pump apart, only to find not only the panties but several washcloths.

Yes this is why I don't allow any child to flush my toilet. I supervise them in the bathroom and I do all the flushing. They can do more damage in one minute than I make in a year of their salary.


I cannot take the time to go with her to the bathroom every time she goes! I shouldn't have to. There are 4 other children who need me here.

It's time to invest in a potty chair and have her potty within eyesight of you at all times. Never have more children in your home than you can manage their toileting. This is a supervision issue. She needs more than you feel she should have. Those two end up costing you money.


Usually, by this age they have developed some self control, and one has to worry less about external controls.

I think their supervision requirements actually increase as they get older. She's either got a lot of experience having access to things she should not have access to OR she's laying in wait for you to give her the opportunity to give her access to things she shouldn't have access to.

Obviously, chemicals and knives are locked up, and outlets are covered. But, if a pen were laying on the counter or in a desk drawer, she would think nothing of taking it (while I am changing a diaper or in the bathroom, let say) and drawing all over the cabinets or walls. Or, crawling under the table and ripping a book to shreds.

She needs an adult within eyeshot and earshot at all times.

Honestly, it may be me. I am just not equiped to spend every moment shadowing this child. I do not have those kind of resources. I am in a home, so it is just me here, and there are plenty of appropriate activites to choose from.

You don't have the option to not be equiped to care for a child in a way they must be cared for in order to keep themselves, the other kids, you, your property, and your livlihood safe.

This is a VERY common issue in child care. Providers believe the children SHOULD be a certain way and the expectations on the adults SHOULD be reasonable or understanding.

It doesn't work like that. You have to accept this as part of the job. You aren't caring for your own child. You are caring for someone elses kid so you can't exact your belief of what SHOULD be.......... you have to accept the way it is.

The way it is is that we HAVE to watch them the entire time they are up. We can't allow them the freedom or privledge we can allow our own kids. We can't give them access to our pocketbooks with their behavior.

It IS the job. You have to come to the understanding that the job IS careful supervision at ALL times.

If I terminate, what do I tell the family?

BTW:, this family is basically getting care for one of the children for free because that is all they could afford. Their contract runs out at the end of the year.

Most often the provider won't term because ultimately they want the money. If you gave them a huge discount (a free spot) then you are going to resent the difficulty level of these kids even more. Every day the one who is taxing your last resource is the kid who is there for free. Decide if you can manage that.

I'm not being tough on you. I'm trying to show you that you are making a critical error in your thinking and not understanding the breadth of the job. You can't manage these kids like you do your own or compare them to how you were raised or how you raise your own. The daycare kids are ALWAYS someone else's children and the accountability of supervision is a million light years more than what we SHOULD have to do or what we WANT to do. In order to be good at this and make money.....you have to come to Jesus on this one thing. It IS the job.

[Heidi]

The younger ones have now started some of the behaviors-throwing fits, hitting or kicking me when they are told no, running off instead of comming to me when asked to. I could deal with all this, I don't like it, but we can work on it.

You lost me right there. I wouldn't tolerate that for a day.

The problem is that the 3yo girl is so sneaky. She is fully potty trained, so she should be completely independent in the bathroom.

I don't allow any of the kids in the bathroom unsupervised. They can do thousands of dollars worth of damage in a matter of seconds. You must supervise them because they have your home and your bank account in their hands when they have access to your plumbing.

I've known a provider who had ten grand worth of water damage done to their home by one kid one day. ONE unsupervised trip to the bathroom and a couple of hours is all it took.

Once, a month or so ago, she flushed her panties down the toilet. We had to take apart our pump and look for them. Did not find them, and we had no further problems

This morning, the whole system backed up, and my dh has now spent the last 2 hours digging in sewage to take the pump apart, only to find not only the panties but several washcloths.

Yes this is why I don't allow any child to flush my toilet. I supervise them in the bathroom and I do all the flushing. They can do more damage in one minute than I make in a year of their salary.


I cannot take the time to go with her to the bathroom every time she goes! I shouldn't have to. There are 4 other children who need me here.

It's time to invest in a potty chair and have her potty within eyesight of you at all times. Never have more children in your home than you can manage their toileting. This is a supervision issue. She needs more than you feel she should have. Those two end up costing you money.


Usually, by this age they have developed some self control, and one has to worry less about external controls.

I think their supervision requirements actually increase as they get older. She's either got a lot of experience having access to things she should not have access to OR she's laying in wait for you to give her the opportunity to give her access to things she shouldn't have access to.

Obviously, chemicals and knives are locked up, and outlets are covered. But, if a pen were laying on the counter or in a desk drawer, she would think nothing of taking it (while I am changing a diaper or in the bathroom, let say) and drawing all over the cabinets or walls. Or, crawling under the table and ripping a book to shreds.

She needs an adult within eyeshot and earshot at all times.

Honestly, it may be me. I am just not equiped to spend every moment shadowing this child. I do not have those kind of resources. I am in a home, so it is just me here, and there are plenty of appropriate activites to choose from.

You don't have the option to not be equiped to care for a child in a way they must be cared for in order to keep themselves, the other kids, you, your property, and your livlihood safe.

This is a VERY common issue in child care. Providers believe the children SHOULD be a certain way and the expectations on the adults SHOULD be reasonable or understanding.

It doesn't work like that. You have to accept this as part of the job. You aren't caring for your own child. You are caring for someone elses kid so you can't exact your belief of what SHOULD be.......... you have to accept the way it is.

The way it is is that we HAVE to watch them the entire time they are up. We can't allow them the freedom or privledge we can allow our own kids. We can't give them access to our pocketbooks with their behavior.

It IS the job. You have to come to the understanding that the job IS careful supervision at ALL times.

If I terminate, what do I tell the family?

BTW:, this family is basically getting care for one of the children for free because that is all they could afford. Their contract runs out at the end of the year.

Most often the provider won't term because ultimately they want the money. If you gave them a huge discount (a free spot) then you are going to resent the difficulty level of these kids even more. Every day the one who is taxing your last resource is the kid who is there for free. Decide if you can manage that.

I'm not being tough on you. I'm trying to show you that you are making a critical error in your thinking and not understanding the breadth of the job. You can't manage these kids like you do your own or compare them to how you were raised or how you raise your own. The daycare kids are ALWAYS someone else's children and the accountability of supervision is a million light years more than what we SHOULD have to do or what we WANT to do. In order to be good at this and make money.....you have to come to Jesus on this one thing. It IS the job.

Nan-you are ABSOLUTELY right! Especially about the part where I expect them to be like my own kids where. I know I need to change my thinking on that. This was a reminder to keep me in check!

I am going to make it so the bathroom door is no longer closed when she is in there. The bathroom is right next to my main room. That should make it a bit easier to supervise her. We are also using a different bathroom and house area than we did before.

[balance]

The younger ones have now started some of the behaviors-throwing fits, hitting or kicking me when they are told no, running off instead of comming to me when asked to. I could deal with all this, I don't like it, but we can work on it.

You lost me right there. I wouldn't tolerate that for a day.

The problem is that the 3yo girl is so sneaky. She is fully potty trained, so she should be completely independent in the bathroom.

I don't allow any of the kids in the bathroom unsupervised. They can do thousands of dollars worth of damage in a matter of seconds. You must supervise them because they have your home and your bank account in their hands when they have access to your plumbing.

I've known a provider who had ten grand worth of water damage done to their home by one kid one day. ONE unsupervised trip to the bathroom and a couple of hours is all it took.

Once, a month or so ago, she flushed her panties down the toilet. We had to take apart our pump and look for them. Did not find them, and we had no further problems

This morning, the whole system backed up, and my dh has now spent the last 2 hours digging in sewage to take the pump apart, only to find not only the panties but several washcloths.

Yes this is why I don't allow any child to flush my toilet. I supervise them in the bathroom and I do all the flushing. They can do more damage in one minute than I make in a year of their salary.


I cannot take the time to go with her to the bathroom every time she goes! I shouldn't have to. There are 4 other children who need me here.

It's time to invest in a potty chair and have her potty within eyesight of you at all times. Never have more children in your home than you can manage their toileting. This is a supervision issue. She needs more than you feel she should have. Those two end up costing you money.


Usually, by this age they have developed some self control, and one has to worry less about external controls.

I think their supervision requirements actually increase as they get older. She's either got a lot of experience having access to things she should not have access to OR she's laying in wait for you to give her the opportunity to give her access to things she shouldn't have access to.

Obviously, chemicals and knives are locked up, and outlets are covered. But, if a pen were laying on the counter or in a desk drawer, she would think nothing of taking it (while I am changing a diaper or in the bathroom, let say) and drawing all over the cabinets or walls. Or, crawling under the table and ripping a book to shreds.

She needs an adult within eyeshot and earshot at all times.

Honestly, it may be me. I am just not equiped to spend every moment shadowing this child. I do not have those kind of resources. I am in a home, so it is just me here, and there are plenty of appropriate activites to choose from.

You don't have the option to not be equiped to care for a child in a way they must be cared for in order to keep themselves, the other kids, you, your property, and your livlihood safe.

This is a VERY common issue in child care. Providers believe the children SHOULD be a certain way and the expectations on the adults SHOULD be reasonable or understanding.

It doesn't work like that. You have to accept this as part of the job. You aren't caring for your own child. You are caring for someone elses kid so you can't exact your belief of what SHOULD be.......... you have to accept the way it is.

The way it is is that we HAVE to watch them the entire time they are up. We can't allow them the freedom or privledge we can allow our own kids. We can't give them access to our pocketbooks with their behavior.

It IS the job. You have to come to the understanding that the job IS careful supervision at ALL times.

If I terminate, what do I tell the family?

BTW:, this family is basically getting care for one of the children for free because that is all they could afford. Their contract runs out at the end of the year.

Most often the provider won't term because ultimately they want the money. If you gave them a huge discount (a free spot) then you are going to resent the difficulty level of these kids even more. Every day the one who is taxing your last resource is the kid who is there for free. Decide if you can manage that.

I'm not being tough on you. I'm trying to show you that you are making a critical error in your thinking and not understanding the breadth of the job. You can't manage these kids like you do your own or compare them to how you were raised or how you raise your own. The daycare kids are ALWAYS someone else's children and the accountability of supervision is a million light years more than what we SHOULD have to do or what we WANT to do. In order to be good at this and make money.....you have to come to Jesus on this one thing. It IS the job.

"You have to come to Jesus on this one thing"? When did this turn into a religious discussion?