Why Don’t Children Sleep Anymore?

[Heidi]

Ok, I have 4 of my own, and have countless dc kids over the last 20 years.

Never, never, has sleep issues like this before. You put em to bed, they sleep.

These twins I have are 15 mo. They now take one nap a day, but every day one of them wakes up an hour into nap and screams his bloody head off. Not the same one each day, mind you.

This morning, one had been (according to mom) UP ALL NIGHT! He just wanted to be held! Now, if my child that age were pulling that (I'm not saying a 6mo), I would very firmly say "It is night time, go to sleep". In a million years, you would not catch me cuddling, feeding, or anything else a 15 mo in the middle of the night.

I gave him a mini-nap this am, just to hold him until naptime. They were the crabbiest couple of kids all morning, both of them, but we made it to nap (noon, a little earlier than usual).

Now night waker is fast asleep, and I' haven't heard a peep, but 1 hour into nap, twin 2 is making a fuss. He cannot possibly last all day on an hour's sleep. He could barely make it through the morning. If I let him get up, he will be a crab the rest of the day, and I have no way to fit in another nap before pick up.

Ok, I think I just needed to vent! Whew!

Of course, I'd just gotten the work done and was ready to relax a few minutes when the fussing started, so I may be a bit crabby myself....

[Zoe]

I don't blame you for being a little cranky. Wow. Hugs!

[Heidi]

well low and behold...

THis is the same one who likes to "tease" me by not giving back his toothbrush or handing me his cup. One day last month, I said in an adult-to-adult voice "Hey, dcb, hand me your cup and I'll give you your toothbrush (which I was not holding), and he handed me his cup!

[SilverSabre25]

Many on here are going to blame the parents through and through ("no cry parenting" etc) but I think it goes a LOT deeper than that.

Diet--the child's as well as the mother's during pregnancy AS WELL AS the maternal GRANDMOTHER's. Think about it...we were ALL inside our GRANDMOTHER when our MOTHER was a baby (as eggs in her ovaries). That's two generations worth of environmental and dietary factors that could affect things in unexpected ways. Our (meaning the American) diet is full of crap and there is NO WAY of knowing just how that crap is affecting us as a people.

Environment--same as diet. The environment is full of crap too, and could very easily be affecting us in unknown and unexpected ways.

Culture--no, not just the "no cry" parenting stuff. Deeper than that, the loss of generational education; the mother or mother-in-law coming to help the daughter after she has a baby and help teach her how to do things, such as identify different cries in the infant (needful vs. self-soothing, etc). The intrusion of books and web "experts" over real, hands-on experience with babies and small children.

Culture--on another level, there's the "stuff" around us now--electronic things, cell phones, iPads...all those things that entertain the baby from a young age in many households. All the lighty blinky nosiy toys that play for the child--that's NOT how our brains evolved and there are studies that show that they do affect the way our brains process information. A brain that doesn't know what quiet and calm feels like certainly isn't going to have an easy time settling in for sleep.

Culture--on a THIRD level, we are both way TOO busy and not busy ENOUGH. We have *so much* going on all day every day, both parents working, running here and there and everywhere and not wanting to spend time helping a child when they need it...and yet at the same time we have too much time to spend with a child because of fast food, microwaves, pizza delivery...we don't have to spend our time and energy making sure the family survives--ergo we have time to grab a child at the slightest fuss when in "days of yore" if mama didn't cook supper, no one ate because there was no delivery or TV dinner, so baby cried while mama cooked. OR BABY WAS WORN/HELD while mama cooked, whether by mama or by an elder sibling.

Culture-- Babies are so far from their parents now, with their own rooms and own beds and all the "equipment" (which has it's place) that might get over used. Sometimes babies who are wakeful are just needing the comfort and closeness of another human being--IT'S A SURVIVAL INSTINCT. NOT a "manipulation tactic"! Babies are biologically driven to make sure that (food, safety, warmth) is right there with them.

(baby wearing plug--hey look how many of those issues are solved so neatly by wearing baby for awhile! You get bored brain time, snuggle time, and closeness...all important for the babies)

[nannyde]

What time do they arrive and depart and have they had breakfast when they arrive?

[Heidi]

Many on here are going to blame the parents through and through ("no cry parenting" etc) but I think it goes a LOT deeper than that.

Diet--the child's as well as the mother's during pregnancy AS WELL AS the maternal GRANDMOTHER's. Think about it...we were ALL inside our GRANDMOTHER when our MOTHER was a baby (as eggs in her ovaries). That's two generations worth of environmental and dietary factors that could affect things in unexpected ways. Our (meaning the American) diet is full of crap and there is NO WAY of knowing just how that crap is affecting us as a people.

Environment--same as diet. The environment is full of crap too, and could very easily be affecting us in unknown and unexpected ways.

Culture--no, not just the "no cry" parenting stuff. Deeper than that, the loss of generational education; the mother or mother-in-law coming to help the daughter after she has a baby and help teach her how to do things, such as identify different cries in the infant (needful vs. self-soothing, etc). The intrusion of books and web "experts" over real, hands-on experience with babies and small children.

Culture--on another level, there's the "stuff" around us now--electronic things, cell phones, iPads...all those things that entertain the baby from a young age in many households. All the lighty blinky nosiy toys that play for the child--that's NOT how our brains evolved and there are studies that show that they do affect the way our brains process information. A brain that doesn't know what quiet and calm feels like certainly isn't going to have an easy time settling in for sleep.

Culture--on a THIRD level, we are both way TOO busy and not busy ENOUGH. We have *so much* going on all day every day, both parents working, running here and there and everywhere and not wanting to spend time helping a child when they need it...and yet at the same time we have too much time to spend with a child because of fast food, microwaves, pizza delivery...we don't have to spend our time and energy making sure the family survives--ergo we have time to grab a child at the slightest fuss when in "days of yore" if mama didn't cook supper, no one ate because there was no delivery or TV dinner, so baby cried while mama cooked. OR BABY WAS WORN/HELD while mama cooked, whether by mama or by an elder sibling.

Culture-- Babies are so far from their parents now, with their own rooms and own beds and all the "equipment" (which has it's place) that might get over used. Sometimes babies who are wakeful are just needing the comfort and closeness of another human being--IT'S A SURVIVAL INSTINCT. NOT a "manipulation tactic"! Babies are biologically driven to make sure that (food, safety, warmth) is right there with them.

(baby wearing plug--hey look how many of those issues are solved so neatly by wearing baby for awhile! You get bored brain time, snuggle time, and closeness...all important for the babies)

Baby wearing plug=Magda Gerber rolling over...

[Nellie]

I have the same age boy here. He never sleeps for more than an hour. He has been here for 4 months and still crys it out. They are only mandated a 30 minute rest period. Today he almost cried for the 30 minutes. I lucked out and he fell asleep. Mondays are always bad. And last week he was gone Thursday and Friday. Somedays he cries for 30 minutes and then I have to go get him. He crashes as soon as he gets home most days. Some days he is done for the day. He is here for 10 hours. He still wakes up in the middle of the night. He co sleeps and still nurses. Dad complains that child is attached to the breast for hours at a time. On weekends mom holds him while he naps.

[Heidi]

I have the same age boy here. He never sleeps for more than an hour. He has been here for 4 months and still crys it out. They are only mandated a 30 minute rest period. Today he almost cried for the 30 minutes. I lucked out and he fell asleep. Mondays are always bad. And last week he was gone Thursday and Friday. Somedays he cries for 30 minutes and then I have to go get him. He crashes as soon as he gets home most days. Some days he is done for the day. He is here for 10 hours. He still wakes up in the middle of the night. He co sleeps and still nurses. Dad complains that child is attached to the breast for hours at a time. On weekends mom holds him while he naps.

eeesshhh! I think your's at least has a pretty good explanation.

I am pretty sure in my case the problem at home may be logistics. 4 kids in a small house, and if one cries, everyone will wake up, in theory.

[countrymom]

the one that is screaming is he in his own room at your house, you see, I wouldn't get him after an hour, I would wait maybe 15min. to a half hour and then go in (if he wasn't settled) I think what the problem is, is that the minute he starts to fuss someone comes running to him and thats what he's doing at your house.

[Heidi]

What time do they arrive and depart and have they had breakfast when they arrive?

Arrive at 7:30, eat breakfast at 8:15 to 8:30, a mini-snack at ish, lunch at noonish, then nap. 12:30-3:30 would be ideal. AS kids come home at 3:45, so the house gets louder then, and they want a snack. Pick up is 4:45, Mom says they meltdown by 7 at home, so she goes through her bedtime routine and they are in bed by 7:30. If they wake during the night, which apparently is often, she tries rubbing their back first, and then will get them up if that doesn't work. They sleep until about 6:00.

I am almost tempted to have them go back to a morning nap, and starting afternoon nap later, thus ending later. The only problem with that is the 21 mo I have and the 3 yo are doing great on the current schedule. I'd hate to go back to having 1/2 the kids sleeping on a seperate schedule. Plus, it's 2x every day to listen to the squawking that nap time sometimes illicits. They've gotten better about it since we switched to one nap. Usually a lot less crying at the beginning of nap.

This is not a good sleep household, I think. The 3yo girl sleeps with dad on the couch instead of her own room. She was a horrible sleeper as an infant, and I think she's been doing that for 3 years now. Mom said they learned from her, and have always put the twins down awake.

The twins share a room with mom (and in theory, dad), in the loft bedroom. Open loft bedroom.

I feel bad for them, actually. I can't even imagine! I would probably throw myself off a bridge if I didn't get enough sleep because SOMEONE was up night after night after night.

[cheerfuldom]

I would keep up the second nap, these kids sound beyond tired