A Silly Question :)

[momofsix]

To answer both questions: I know he was illegal due to his license and the fact that the police came out and told us he was an illegal. They could not arrest him or pick him up because the accident happened on private property. That is also why we didn't get a full police report, only a reference number, because of it happening on private property. What they did after we left I don't know.

As for my comment about draining our insurance, where I live, that is considered the norm. These illegal immigrants take whatever they can and go back to their home country. They also purposefully CAUSE accidents just to collect insurance.

Sorry, yeah, you do. That's what it's called when you lump people into one category instead of looking at them individually. In fact one of my bestest friends is an African American. I also have several hispanic friends. I honestly can't believe people still say that to "prove" they aren't racist! That is so oldHowever living in the area I live in, I tend to have the opinion that the immigrants take what they can and run. At least you admit it's your opinion.

And as youretooloud said, at least he had insurance, stayed, and was willing to wait for the police. Most undocumented would not wait for the police, they're too terrified.

I don't mean to come down hard on you specifically, but I just can't let racist comments stand unchallenged especially when the person saying them says they're not racist. Maybe you're not, but your comments most definitely were.

[Former Teacher]

And as youretooloud said, at least he had insurance, stayed, and was willing to wait for the police. Most undocumented would not wait for the police, they're too terrified.

I don't mean to come down hard on you specifically, but I just can't let racist comments stand unchallenged especially when the person saying them says they're not racist. Maybe you're not, but your comments most definitely were.

Unfortunately its the few bad apples that upset the whole barrel IMO. Not to get off topic but it's just like charity. I REFUSE to donate to the family services etc. It's the few that take advantage of the system that make it bad for the good hard working people out there.

[jen]

Agreed. Even though when my husband said that he was going to call the police since we couldn't understand him...he started saying "NO CALL COPS! NO CALL COPS!", he didn't run.

I hate feeling the way I do about immigrants/illegals because it does make me feel prejudiced. It just ticks me off that these immigrants/illegals have more rights than we Americans.

I remember one story years ago. This company (don't remember which one) told an hispanic man that he had 2, yes 2 YEARS to learn English, otherwise he couldn't work for them. Well 2 years later he still didn't know English. The company fired him. Guess what? He sued and won for discrimination.

It also ticks me off when I go buy something and the labels are in Spanish AND English. WTH??? This is AMERICA. The language is ENGLISH. If you favor one language, then favor them all.

Grr I can go on and on about this But I won't ::

I've never understood why it bothers people to make it a little easier to some people who may not understand the language. Really, so what? It isn't harming anyone to have the labels in two languages, so why not?

When my Great Grandmother moved here from Italy, she didn't speak English, but her children did, and their children did. Your ancestors probably didn't speak English when they arrived in this country either. The first generation citizens may never learn the language, but their children will!

When I was in Greece & Croatia last year, pretty much everything was in their native language and English. They also teach all their children in grade school to speak English. Whenever I had a question, I just found a kid!

[Former Teacher]

I've never understood why it bothers people to make it a little easier to some people who may not understand the language. Really, so what? It isn't harming anyone to have the labels in two languages, so why not?

When my Great Grandmother moved here from Italy, she didn't speak English, but her children did, and their children did. Your ancestors probably didn't speak English when they arrived in this country either. The first generation citizens may never learn the language, but their children will!

When I was in Greece & Croatia last year, pretty much everything was in their native language and English. They also teach all their children in grade school to speak English. Whenever I had a question, I just found a kid!

I don't have a problem with all the different languages. All our ancestors came from other countries.

However I DO have a problem when I pick up a box of cereal and the ingredient label is marked with English and Spanish. What about the Germans living here? What about the French living here? Etc etc etc...

I just feel that if I was living in another country, I would expect their labels to be in their native language. It just seems unfair that as an English speaking country, we have to have everything in Spanish as well. Esp. when there are other languages spoken here.

[jen]

I don't have a problem with all the different languages. All our ancestors came from other countries.

However I DO have a problem when I pick up a box of cereal and the ingredient label is marked with English and Spanish. What about the Germans living here? What about the French living here? Etc etc etc...

I just feel that if I was living in another country, I would expect their labels to be in their native language. It just seems unfair that as an English speaking country, we have to have everything in Spanish as well. Esp. when there are other languages spoken here.

Well, there isn't room on the box for EVERY language that is spoken here, but since Spanish and English are the prominent languages it makes sense. Also, we don't "have" to do anything. I am not aware of a law that forces the cereal manufacturor to put the box in both English and Spanish, they do it because that is the primary languages spoken by their customers.

I still don't understand why it would bother you? On behalf of the Germans and French people living in our country? As I said, we don't have room for ALL the languages, so making things accessbile to the most common languages is certainly "fair."

[Former Teacher]

Well, there isn't room on the box for EVERY language that is spoken here, but since Spanish and English are the prominent languages it makes sense. Also, we don't "have" to do anything. I am not aware of a law that forces the cereal manufacturor to put the box in both English and Spanish, they do it because that is the primary languages spoken by their customers.

I still don't understand why it would bother you? On behalf of the Germans and French people living in our country? As I said, we don't have room for ALL the languages, so making things accessbile to the most common languages is certainly "fair."

How long will it take for a German or a French person to claim discrimination due to the fact that a product they purchase isn't in THEIR language? So it is NOT fair to these other languages.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

[mac60]

Unfortunately its the few bad apples that upset the whole barrel IMO. Not to get off topic but it's just like charity. I REFUSE to donate to the family services etc. It's the few that take advantage of the system that make it bad for the good hard working people out there.

I totally agree with you. Why can illegals get a Medicad card (or whatever free healthcare they are so called entitled to) , while my own family suffers without adequate healthcare, and we are American, we have paid taxes our whole life, yet we are not entitled to the same benefits that illegals are......something about that just isn't right or fair. It goes beyond the illegals though, look at the people who abuse the Welfare, food stamp, Medicaid, etc help. They will **** it dry as long as they can......

[momofsix]

All Germans are Nazis.

All white juries would never give a person of a different rqce a fair trial b/c all white people are racist.

All white people are bigots.

All white people are rich.

White people have flat "behinds" b/c they sit on them all day expecting others to do the hard work.

There are more "white" stereotypes, but I don't want to turn this into a joke, or have the stereotypes become more important than the point I'm making.

Are these trends that people really do see true of all white people? Most white people? Half of white people?
Of course not. And neither are the stereotypes we hold of other races true for them, even if we really do see "proof".

As far as the language goes Jen is absolutely right. WHY should it bother you if something is in Spanish? Don't read it then. Legal Hispanics make up a huge percentage of the population in the U.S., other languages a much smaller percentage-it wouldn't make sense to do it for such a small percentage of the population. Also, if you travel almost anywhere in the world, you can find things written in English-because we're the only country arrogant enough to think everyone needs to know our language and we don't need to learn anyone elses.

[youretooloud]

I totally agree with you. Why can illegals get a Medicad card (or whatever free healthcare they are so called entitled to) , while my own family suffers without adequate healthcare, and we are American, we have paid taxes our whole life, yet we are not entitled to the same benefits that illegals are......something about that just isn't right or fair. It goes beyond the illegals though, look at the people who abuse the Welfare, food stamp, Medicaid, etc help. They will **** it dry as long as they can......

Around here, it would be futile to be racist, or against Hispanics at all. The largest percentage of our state is Hispanic, then white, then middle Eastern.

But, undocumented people receive the largest amount of our State paid health care. Too much of our money goes to teaching English as a second language. Our local schools have fired all the librarians. Only a few of the schools have a gifted program, and those that do, share one teacher. We no longer provide service to the younger kids who need early intervention for speech or other learning disabilities.

Our daycare food programs are 99% undocumented women, who's husbands aren't working, and they receive tier 1 reimbursement. ALL of our food program training classes are held in Spanish, and we have an English interpreter.

I get tier 2 reimbursements, AND, I have to provide a social security number. If a Hispanic woman refuses to provider her social security number, they have to mark on the paperwork that she refused it... but, she still gets tier 1. *I* have to make copies of all of my menus. (which I hate with a passion) and keep it for one year. But, those who say "I can't afford the ink or i don't have a printer" get an exemption.

If they don't like the way we in America handle immigration, they come from all over the US to march on our capital. Our state has to pay thousands of police officers, and pass out water bottles, and have ambulances standing by to treat them for heat exhaustion. All paid for by our already bankrupt state.

Most of these people don't pay taxes... so, everything they do is completely free for them, but costs us a lot. If they paid taxes (besides sales tax) then they would be contributing to our state.

ALL of this would be bad enough... but, now the Cartel is coming over the border. Mostly in Texas... but, soon it will be here too. States who aren't close to this don't "get it". Our ranchers are being killed, our teenagers on spring break are being killed.. or politicians near the border are being killed, our police are being killed, our border patrol officers are being killed.

So, if some of us are a little bitter, we do have a good reason, it's not out of ignorance.

[jen]

Around here, it would be futile to be racist, or against Hispanics at all. The largest percentage of our state is Hispanic, then white, then middle Eastern.

But, undocumented people receive the largest amount of our State paid health care. Too much of our money goes to teaching English as a second language. Our local schools have fired all the librarians. Only a few of the schools have a gifted program, and those that do, share one teacher. We no longer provide service to the younger kids who need early intervention for speech or other learning disabilities.

Our daycare food programs are 99% undocumented women, who's husbands aren't working, and they receive tier 1 reimbursement. ALL of our food program training classes are held in Spanish, and we have an English interpreter.

I get tier 2 reimbursements, AND, I have to provide a social security number. If a Hispanic woman refuses to provider her social security number, they have to mark on the paperwork that she refused it... but, she still gets tier 1. *I* have to make copies of all of my menus. (which I hate with a passion) and keep it for one year. But, those who say "I can't afford the ink or i don't have a printer" get an exemption.

If they don't like the way we in America handle immigration, they come from all over the US to march on our capital. Our state has to pay thousands of police officers, and pass out water bottles, and have ambulances standing by to treat them for heat exhaustion. All paid for by our already bankrupt state.

Most of these people don't pay taxes... so, everything they do is completely free for them, but costs us a lot. If they paid taxes (besides sales tax) then they would be contributing to our state.

ALL of this would be bad enough... but, now the Cartel is coming over the border. Mostly in Texas... but, soon it will be here too. States who aren't close to this don't "get it". Our ranchers are being killed, our teenagers on spring break are being killed.. or politicians near the border are being killed, our police are being killed, our border patrol officers are being killed.

So, if some of us are a little bitter, we do have a good reason, it's not out of ignorance.

So, I have to ask...where are you guys getting these statistics? How many illegal aliens do you know and how do you know that status of their health care?

I have not found even ONE reputable source that comes close to what you guys are talking about. What I do see is a lot of information that is very clearly biases and not supported when you fact check on a non-partisan site.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/

[youretooloud]

If you walk into an emergency room, they treat you... they don't ask for insurance until you've been treated. If you don't pay your bill, you can still go back for another emergency, and if you don't pay that bill, you can keep going back.

Since it's not free, someone has to pay for it.

But the CIS report actually put the costs of food stamp, WIC and free school lunch programs to "illegal alien households" at $1.9 billion, not the $2.2 billion

Even that is too much. Our state is broke. We don't have that. Our schools are broke... we need other services in our schools too. Our schools have between 1000-2000 kids in each grade school. Each grade has about six classes, each class has about 30-40 kids in it.

I know several illegals... I know several who do it legally. They aren't citizens, but they are legal... and they pay taxes. They stay here for three years, then one of them goes back to Mexico to get new documentation, then they come back. They are married, so they stagger the times they go back to Mexico so one of them is always here. They would like dual citizenship because they have family in Mexico. But, dual citizenship is very hard to get.

If the govt wants to help.. they need to make immigration easier to do. Or, they need to help the illegals get to other states to work. They could be given bus vouchers, or the state they choose to go to can pay to relocate them safely to their state of choice. That way, the cost to support them will be spread out among the other states, instead of the border states.

I think they deserve to come here for a better life. I just think the government needs to make it easier so they aren't illegal. Otherwise, illegal means nothing. The government isn't willing to help us, or help the immigrants get here without having to cross the desert.

What you don't hear in the news is how many immigrants die every day trying to get here. They die in the desert, they are killed by the Coyotes, (smugglers) they die in drop houses, they are sold when they get here, they are held against their will, they are kept in drop houses with no electricity for weeks but aren't given enough food. Human smugglers steal our vehicles to smuggle people or drugs, then leave the vehicle in the desert. They steal horses from ranches on the border and use the horses to carry drugs, then they leave the horses to die in the desert.

Our government is doing it wrong.... But, the citizens shouldn't have to pay the price for the government's lack of common sense.

[momofsix]

Our government is doing it wrong.... But, the citizens shouldn't have to pay the price for the government's lack of common sense.

I can definitely agree with you on this!

[jen]

If you walk into an emergency room, they treat you... they don't ask for insurance until you've been treated. If you don't pay your bill, you can still go back for another emergency, and if you don't pay that bill, you can keep going back.

Since it's not free, someone has to pay for it.



Even that is too much. Our state is broke. We don't have that. Our schools are broke... we need other services in our schools too. Our schools have between 1000-2000 kids in each grade school. Each grade has about six classes, each class has about 30-40 kids in it.

I know several illegals... I know several who do it legally. They aren't citizens, but they are legal... and they pay taxes. They stay here for three years, then one of them goes back to Mexico to get new documentation, then they come back. They are married, so they stagger the times they go back to Mexico so one of them is always here. They would like dual citizenship because they have family in Mexico. But, dual citizenship is very hard to get.

If the govt wants to help.. they need to make immigration easier to do. Or, they need to help the illegals get to other states to work. They could be given bus vouchers, or the state they choose to go to can pay to relocate them safely to their state of choice. That way, the cost to support them will be spread out among the other states, instead of the border states.

I think they deserve to come here for a better life. I just think the government needs to make it easier so they aren't illegal. Otherwise, illegal means nothing. The government isn't willing to help us, or help the immigrants get here without having to cross the desert.

What you don't hear in the news is how many immigrants die every day trying to get here. They die in the desert, they are killed by the Coyotes, (smugglers) they die in drop houses, they are sold when they get here, they are held against their will, they are kept in drop houses with no electricity for weeks but aren't given enough food. Human smugglers steal our vehicles to smuggle people or drugs, then leave the vehicle in the desert. They steal horses from ranches on the border and use the horses to carry drugs, then they leave the horses to die in the desert.

Our government is doing it wrong.... But, the citizens shouldn't have to pay the price for the government's lack of common sense.

I agree with you on the part about the government doing it wrong!

For your quote from the article, it is pretty important to quote the entire statement:

These figures supposedly come from a 2004 report by CIS that estimated the costs to the federal government of households headed by illegal immigrants in 2002. But the CIS report actually put the costs of food stamp, WIC and free school lunch programs to "illegal alien households" at $1.9 billion, not the $2.2 billion claimed in the e-mail. The $2.5 billion figure for Medicaid to such households is quoted accurately, but again, much of this was in benefits for U.S.-born children, who are citizens

[youretooloud]

I think if a child is benefiting from the government, and was born her in the US, they are entitled to it. Welfare is another matter entirely.

But, illegal immigration has changed drastically since 2002 or 2004.

In the 80s, you could freely move across the border. If you lived in Douglas Arizona, you could go have dinner with friends in Agua Prieta Mexico without considering the border. I don't even think there was a fence. You could drive across the border to shop for a day trip without a long wait at the border. Now there's a four hour wait at the border.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb...dians-20110206 Then, there's this. Why are people from India coming to America through South America, then Mexico? Why not just come a more direct route? Why is it OK if they come through Mexico, but not on an Airplane through New York?

[Former Teacher]

I totally agree with you. Why can illegals get a Medicad card (or whatever free healthcare they are so called entitled to) , while my own family suffers without adequate healthcare, and we are American, we have paid taxes our whole life, yet we are not entitled to the same benefits that illegals are......something about that just isn't right or fair. It goes beyond the illegals though, look at the people who abuse the Welfare, food stamp, Medicaid, etc help. They will **** it dry as long as they can......

Mac, first once, I completely agree with you as well!

This is why, again, I will not donate to family services, Angel Tree, food bank, etc. I use to work with a woman who was on every state aid there was. Once I was feeding her daughter a bottle but she didn't want it. So I told the mom (my co worker who was in the same room with me), that C didn't want her bottle. Co worker said oh just toss it. I said..well I JUST now made it so it's still fresh. Co worker said: that's ok, I'll make her a fresh one, it's free to me. I was like it maybe free to YOU but I am the one paying for that with my taxpayer money!

This same co-worker has been on all this aid since her oldest was born, 20 YEARS ago. Shouldn't there be a time limit?!?!? Don't get me wrong. My mother was a single mother with 3 kids before she married my father. She didn't go on all these programs. We always had medical care and food in our stomach. But my mother also worked her a$$ off for us.

This same co worker can walk into the family services and say with a sad face I can't pay my electric bill. What do they say? Oh come here sweetie and we will. We are here to help you. Yet, don't they see her drive her and her 5 kids in a late model vehicle? Forget Christmas time. At Christmas all 7 of them (her, 5 kids, and yes a husband but he's from Mexico so the state isn't suppose to know he lives with her) make out like bandits. One year they got brand new clothes and toys to fill a tiny department store. Plus my former co worker got $100.00 in a gift card to Wal-Mart and $200 CASH.

Another example: my mother was in the hospital about 16 years ago with a broken blood vessel. Now my mother had/has quality insurance through my father. A woman came in the bed next to my mother. Within 10 mins. they moved her. Where? To a private room due to freakin medicaid.

I am all for these state aid programs for the people THAT NEED IT. Illegals don't need it. Let them use their own country's aid. People who have been on it for 20 years is also ridiculous.