Telling a Family No (long)

[misol]

When you interview with a family that you are definitely not going to take, how do you tell them? I want to tell this mom that I don't think the child would be a good fit but I don't think that answer is going to fly with her. Do I just stick to my guns and let that be my answer or should I offer a reason?

Mom mentioned during the phone interview that boy was ADHD. She mentioned at face-to-face last night that he was suspended from daycare but she didn't say why. I did a trial day with this SA boy today and he told me he got kicked out of his current daycare for slapping his teacher! Outside of the ADHD I had some other small details that had me on the fence about this family but when the boy told me this it was a dealbreaker for me.

Oh, and the interview itself went well and the kid was a perfect angel during that time. I told her that I would be willing to work with him but would have to get back to her regarding the scheduling issues. I never gave her a green light last night during the interview but apparently the mom has already told the kid that he would be coming to my house from now on! She is expecting me to watch him beginning Monday. I feel horrible like maybe I led her on or something.

The dad picked up today and I told him to tell the mom I would call her about next week. So now I am going to have to call mom on a Saturday to tell her I can't take the boy on Monday I envision her begging and pleading with me to take him because she has no other options. I am not prepared for this and don't know what to say. The mom is desperate and will probably be trying to pull out all the stops. I need a good, solid way to tell her it's a no-go. Something definite and final so that she can't come back with a counteroffer.

[safechner]

I totally understand how you feel about it. I just would give him a chance. Making sure he is taking a medicine everyday that will help him a good behavior. Maybe you could call his mother to make sure she can give you the medicine to keep at your house just in case if the mother forgot to give him a medicine. If it doesnt work then you can let him go without notice if you have two weeks trial. Whatever you feel best for you and your daycare kids.

[MarinaVanessa]

This is a hard position to be I'm sure but the only reason you specifically mentioned is the fact that he has ADHD. I know you mentioned that there are other reasons but since you didn't specify it's hard to give advice. Just keep in mind that if you don't have a good and solid reason as to why you won't be taking in the child besides the fact that he is ADHD you could potentially have a problem on your hands. You can't deny a child because he has a disability or has special needs so don't say that it's because of the ADHD instead do as you said and just say that you are not a good fit for their child or that you are unfortunately unable to meet the child's needs. If you want to give her a specific reason just be honest with her and tell her your concerns. I would mention the fact that he has physically asaulted someone and in consequense got kicked out worries you since there is no guarantee that this won't happen again. If you have no formal training with kids with ADHD or special needs tell them that this is another concern and that you feel inadequate in being able to offer the kind od care that he needs.

If it were me, I would try it out for 2 weeks as a trial bases and see where it goes from there. If after the trial it didn't work out then I would tell them that it just won't work out. Even if he is good for a few weeks and the behavior turns bad after some time you can always terminate him. Again, it's hard to give good advice since I don't know the other reasons why you don't want to take him other that the "dealbreaker" which was learning that he slapped his teacher.

[tenderhearts]

If I'm unsure of an interview I always tell them that I had a previous interview and they are letting me know in a day or 2, if they fill the spot then I will no longer have the opening. This way it gives me a "way out" if I don't feel comfortable taking them.

[QualiTcare]

i had a kid spit on me when i was teaching. i'd keep him if his mom called and asked me to though. the kid loved me and couldn't even explain why he did it. i was talking to some other students with my back turned to him when he did it. i think he wanted attention, but i dunno.

he wasn't a bad kid - he was just out of control because his ADHD wasnt being treated. he got in huge trouble when he did that and his mom finally took him to the doctor and got it under control.

so - just because he slapped his teacher (as horrible as that sounds) doesn't mean that any chance of him behaving and getting along is out of the question.

[nannyde]

When you interview with a family that you are definitely not going to take, how do you tell them? I want to tell this mom that I don't think the child would be a good fit but I don't think that answer is going to fly with her. Do I just stick to my guns and let that be my answer or should I offer a reason?

Mom mentioned during the phone interview that boy was ADHD. She mentioned at face-to-face last night that he was suspended from daycare but she didn't say why. I did a trial day with this SA boy today and he told me he got kicked out of his current daycare for slapping his teacher! Outside of the ADHD I had some other small details that had me on the fence about this family but when the boy told me this it was a dealbreaker for me.

Oh, and the interview itself went well and the kid was a perfect angel during that time. I told her that I would be willing to work with him but would have to get back to her regarding the scheduling issues. I never gave her a green light last night during the interview but apparently the mom has already told the kid that he would be coming to my house from now on! She is expecting me to watch him beginning Monday. I feel horrible like maybe I led her on or something.

The dad picked up today and I told him to tell the mom I would call her about next week. So now I am going to have to call mom on a Saturday to tell her I can't take the boy on Monday I envision her begging and pleading with me to take him because she has no other options. I am not prepared for this and don't know what to say. The mom is desperate and will probably be trying to pull out all the stops. I need a good, solid way to tell her it's a no-go. Something definite and final so that she can't come back with a counteroffer.

This isn't complicated so my advise is to take your emotions out of it if you can.

From what you have said... the Mom did not discuss with you the violence toward an adult caretaker. She had two opportunities to discuss this with you (on the initital phone call and at the interview) and she didn't mention it.

As the Mother or a mentally ill child she has the obligation to tell any potential caregiver the extent of his illness. Giving a diagnosis of ADHD only gives a small amount of the information. She should have told you about his violent behavior right off the bat. That would have shown YOU that she wanted to protect YOU and the children in your care FIRST.

The call to her can be very simply stated. "When I interviewed with you you did not tell me that your son has recently been violent towards an adult. In order to offer the service he needs I will have to hire a staff assistant to supervise him exclusively. If he is to attend the day care we will need to arrange payment for an additional staff. My fees will be in addition to this. Let me know if you would like to do that and I will begin the interviewing to find him a personal assistant. It may take a few weeks to hire someone for his hours so you will need to find alternate arrangements until it can be done".

I'm very suspicious about his being "suspended" from his previous day care. More than likely he was kicked out. Children with mental illness have protections under the disability act BUT if they become a harm to themselves or others the provider has every right to dismiss immediately.

As a provider you have every right to insist that this child have additional staff to meet his needs and to protect yourself and your children. The Mom of this child needs to begin the process as a parent of a mentally ill child that she MUST get in place EVERYTHING he needs EVERYWHERE he goes. That is HER job as a parent.

You shouldn't be bullied by her or worry about it in any way. She didn't do HER job by being honest about his recent violence. You are giving her a wonderful opportunity to learn that if she is not completely honest then something can happen that will directly affect her life: Like not having care on a Monday. That's great for her to have this experience and hopefully she will learn now what her role is in accessing proper care for him.

[misol]

Late getting back but thank you for all of your responses! The mom called me before I was able to get back to this forum. Based on all of your responses it seems I did the right thing. In a nutshell I gave her several resons why i didn't think it would work out - including the ADHD. I told her that while it was not the primary reason, that since I do not have any prior experience working with children with ADHD it was definitely a concern of mine. The other issues were 1.there was a scheduling conflict (she wanted to drop off before my opening hours and there were days that she "might" be late) 2. she is my new neighbor (she is 3 houses away and I didn't want any bad blood if things didn't work out) 3. My priority is to fill a full-time space (she just needed B&A care for her 2 sons) 4. My program is primarily geared toward preschoolers and based on the trial visit, I didn't think that he would enjoy himself very much here. (unless he was watching TV he was completely unable to entertain himself and he seemed very annoyed by the younger ones crying and whining and following him around). She was very receptive and said she understood all of my concerns and that she had some of the same concerns herself.

I told her that my heart wanted to help her but I have to use my head and make the best decision for my business. I did tell her that if her regular provider is unavailable and she has an emergency that she could call me and I would take him if I had the space that day but I unfortunately i could not be his regular provider.

Oh, and I didn't want to tell the mom that I knew about him slapping the teacher since I got the information from him instead of her.

From now on I will remember to end all of my interviews with "Thank you for your interest in my program. I am interviewing several families for the opening and will select the one that is the best fit."

[TGT09]

I think you handled it great! Good job! Very professional and it sounds like she understood where you were coming from!

[MarinaVanessa]

I'm glad that it worked out for you and there were no hard feelings between you two. Seems like it was handled appropriately and everything turnes out great.

[Former Teacher]

This isn't complicated so my advise is to take your emotions out of it if you can.

From what you have said... the Mom did not discuss with you the violence toward an adult caretaker. She had two opportunities to discuss this with you (on the initital phone call and at the interview) and she didn't mention it.

As the Mother or a mentally ill child she has the obligation to tell any potential caregiver the extent of his illness. Giving a diagnosis of ADHD only gives a small amount of the information. She should have told you about his violent behavior right off the bat. That would have shown YOU that she wanted to protect YOU and the children in your care FIRST.

The call to her can be very simply stated. "When I interviewed with you you did not tell me that your son has recently been violent towards an adult. In order to offer the service he needs I will have to hire a staff assistant to supervise him exclusively. If he is to attend the day care we will need to arrange payment for an additional staff. My fees will be in addition to this. Let me know if you would like to do that and I will begin the interviewing to find him a personal assistant. It may take a few weeks to hire someone for his hours so you will need to find alternate arrangements until it can be done".

I'm very suspicious about his being "suspended" from his previous day care. More than likely he was kicked out. Children with mental illness have protections under the disability act BUT if they become a harm to themselves or others the provider has every right to dismiss immediately.

As a provider you have every right to insist that this child have additional staff to meet his needs and to protect yourself and your children. The Mom of this child needs to begin the process as a parent of a mentally ill child that she MUST get in place EVERYTHING he needs EVERYWHERE he goes. That is HER job as a parent.

You shouldn't be bullied by her or worry about it in any way. She didn't do HER job by being honest about his recent violence. You are giving her a wonderful opportunity to learn that if she is not completely honest then something can happen that will directly affect her life: Like not having care on a Monday. That's great for her to have this experience and hopefully she will learn now what her role is in accessing proper care for him.

For once, I agree with you! ::

[Former Teacher]

Late getting back but thank you for all of your responses! The mom called me before I was able to get back to this forum. Based on all of your responses it seems I did the right thing. In a nutshell I gave her several resons why i didn't think it would work out - including the ADHD. I told her that while it was not the primary reason, that since I do not have any prior experience working with children with ADHD it was definitely a concern of mine. The other issues were 1.there was a scheduling conflict (she wanted to drop off before my opening hours and there were days that she "might" be late) 2. she is my new neighbor (she is 3 houses away and I didn't want any bad blood if things didn't work out) 3. My priority is to fill a full-time space (she just needed B&A care for her 2 sons) 4. My program is primarily geared toward preschoolers and based on the trial visit, I didn't think that he would enjoy himself very much here. (unless he was watching TV he was completely unable to entertain himself and he seemed very annoyed by the younger ones crying and whining and following him around). She was very receptive and said she understood all of my concerns and that she had some of the same concerns herself.

I told her that my heart wanted to help her but I have to use my head and make the best decision for my business. I did tell her that if her regular provider is unavailable and she has an emergency that she could call me and I would take him if I had the space that day but I unfortunately i could not be his regular provider.

Oh, and I didn't want to tell the mom that I knew about him slapping the teacher since I got the information from him instead of her.

From now on I will remember to end all of my interviews with "Thank you for your interest in my program. I am interviewing several families for the opening and will select the one that is the best fit."

Bravo!!!!!

[TomCopeland]

ADA and ADHD

As someone has already mentioned, you cannot discriminate against a child with a disability. This is a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. ADHD is a disability. In this case you were required to provider reasonable accommodation for this child. What does that mean in your situation. It means talking to the parent about the child's condition and asking what can be done to provide appropriate care for this child in addition to all the other children. Knowing about the child's violent incidents this should put you on guard to address this as well.

After learning about what this child needs and what should be done to keep everyone safe, the solution may have been that you would need to have another adult present to help supervise the child. If so, you cannot ask the parent to pay the extra cost of this helper. That would be discrimination under the ADA.

If providing appropriate care for the child involves a "significant difficulty" or "significant expense" then you don't have to provide the care. You probably should have said to the mother, "The best solution would be to hire a helper who would cost me $300 per week (or whatever the cost is) and I can't afford this." You can't ask the parent to pay extra. If the parent volunteers to pay the money then you have to provide the care.

I know this is a difficult situation to deal with. But these extra steps should be taken when dealing with a child who has a disability. Tom

[ninosqueridos]

WOW - what GREAT info, thank you Tom Copeland!

[sahm2three]

As someone has already mentioned, you cannot discriminate against a child with a disability. This is a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. ADHD is a disability. In this case you were required to provider reasonable accommodation for this child. What does that mean in your situation. It means talking to the parent about the child's condition and asking what can be done to provide appropriate care for this child in addition to all the other children. Knowing about the child's violent incidents this should put you on guard to address this as well.

After learning about what this child needs and what should be done to keep everyone safe, the solution may have been that you would need to have another adult present to help supervise the child. If so, you cannot ask the parent to pay the extra cost of this helper. That would be discrimination under the ADA.

If providing appropriate care for the child involves a "significant difficulty" or "significant expense" then you don't have to provide the care. You probably should have said to the mother, "The best solution would be to hire a helper who would cost me $300 per week (or whatever the cost is) and I can't afford this." You can't ask the parent to pay extra. If the parent volunteers to pay the money then you have to provide the care.

I know this is a difficult situation to deal with. But these extra steps should be taken when dealing with a child who has a disability. Tom

I have a boy in care who has ADD and ODD, and was NOT told of this before I started care with him. He didn't have a complete diagnosis yet, but mom did know he had ADD, but was still being tested for ODD. I had issue after issue. First day of care he tried stealing $25 from my sons room (which he wasn't supposed to be in). Where is the protection from liablility for the provider?! I understand that there has to be laws to protect the disabled, but I also think that there needs to be laws to protect providers/etc.

[misol]

As someone has already mentioned, you cannot discriminate against a child with a disability. This is a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. ADHD is a disability. In this case you were required to provider reasonable accommodation for this child. What does that mean in your situation. It means talking to the parent about the child's condition and asking what can be done to provide appropriate care for this child in addition to all the other children. Knowing about the child's violent incidents this should put you on guard to address this as well.

After learning about what this child needs and what should be done to keep everyone safe, the solution may have been that you would need to have another adult present to help supervise the child. If so, you cannot ask the parent to pay the extra cost of this helper. That would be discrimination under the ADA.

If providing appropriate care for the child involves a "significant difficulty" or "significant expense" then you don't have to provide the care. You probably should have said to the mother, "The best solution would be to hire a helper who would cost me $300 per week (or whatever the cost is) and I can't afford this." You can't ask the parent to pay extra. If the parent volunteers to pay the money then you have to provide the care.

I know this is a difficult situation to deal with. But these extra steps should be taken when dealing with a child who has a disability. Tom

Thanks Tom, I wondered about that. I will remember that for next time so I can be sure to word it correctly.

I have a boy in care who has ADD and ODD, and was NOT told of this before I started care with him. He didn't have a complete diagnosis yet, but mom did know he had ADD, but was still being tested for ODD. I had issue after issue. First day of care he tried stealing $25 from my sons room (which he wasn't supposed to be in). Where is the protection from liablility for the provider?! I understand that there has to be laws to protect the disabled, but I also think that there needs to be laws to protect providers/etc.

I agree. I was wondering if the mom was so forthcoming with me because she wanted to be or because she HAD to be. Are the parents required to disclose?

I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way because I am sensitive to the needs of persons with diabilities. However, if a provider finds herself in over her head with a child that has a mental or physical disability, how do you terminate without getting into any legal trouble? I am guessing that you would probably have to just give a reason that is totally unrelated to the disability? I have a clause in my contract that says I can terminate for the "inability to meet your child’s needs without additional staff." Is that even legal to say?