Discrepany at Daycare

[DadwithQuestions]

We were recently told by our daycare GM that we were 4 or 5 weeks behind (they aren’t totally sure which). She showed us a paper that we signed when we first started our daughter there in Fed 07 that was just a word document that had some rules on it, one of which was about giving one vacation per year and all other weeks still had to be paid even without attendance.

We didn’t realize this and they told us in the last week about this. They gave us a copy of their accounting sheets. My wife has been in banking/accounting for 11 years and can’t make heads or tails of how they even keep track of attendance/payments.

The GM is only there a couple hours per week (about half a day per week at most) and the owner is never there. I did some backtracking on our end by looking at our calendars and did see that we took one vacation this year (end of June), she had a seizure early June and missed a week and was sick in February and missed a week. So there is two that we are liable for. Even the GM says that multiple people do the book keeping and she has found other mistakes with other entries, but is going back to 2007 stuff and still not able to 100% tell us exactly where she is talking about the non-payment.

We know that we have paid for the full week when she shows up, even if it is only for a couple of days. I admit that we didn’t realize about the payment for absenses and will take care of those two weeks for 2008, but for 2007?

My biggest question is, why are they just now telling us this after 6 months or even a year (or more) after it happened? Their books definitely seem “mickey moused” for lack of a better saying and even she can’t show us exactly when this all happened. We found on our own the 3 total weeks missed this year and one was the allowed vacation. I would think this SHOULD be something they notice and notify us (or whomever) with a few weeks of the miss since someone has to be (or should be) on the books at least once a week to double check and enter new info.

On another note, out of shear coincendence, my wife was promoted this week (something that they have had in the works for over a month, but finally was approved by upper management) and will be able to work from home except for a few hours a week for a meeting. We will likely use a mother’s day out type of thing for that since this daycare does not offer any type of part time thing. We are giving our two week notice as they do request there, but we know it is going to look bad on us, but it is just a timing thing.

Thoughts/questions/etc are welcome on this very odd situation. I would love a daycare's point of view on this as well as fellow parents.

[Unregistered]

Being a provider myself, i think i would have to tell them that it is something that they should have caught earlier, esp. if it is in 2007. Cause you already filed your taxes and your not going to be able to claim that money in 2008. So really it would be monies that they would recieve tax free. And until they can show you what weeks, days, whatever i would not give it to them. Its not your job to keep their books straight or clean up their mess. I would give my two weeks and be done with it.

[DadwithQuestions]

Thank you for your information. I didn't even think about the tax part of it.

We did turn in the notice yesterday for her last day to be Oct 3rd. The GM wasn't even there, so we gave it to the next in charge. The GM was there today, but was busy when I arrived to drop off my little girl. I was curious as to see what should would say (if anything) about it now that there is a notice in. It is totally unrelated to her accounting practices and just coincedence.

She even told my wife that she couldn't seem to pinpoint the weeks in question, but "according to their accounting sheets", it looked like we were 4 or 5 week behind.

I appreciate your feedback!!

[DadwithQuestions]

new development

New development:

Talked to the GM today and she said she is going to turn it over to collections next week.

She still isnt sure when the occurrences were. She originally said Dec 07 is the start of it, then said in another conversation that it was Sept 07, now today she said it looks like it started in Oct 07.

How can she try to do a collections thing on something she cant even verify where the problem was and still admits that they have found issues with their logs.

I also found out that she said she is going strictly off a log that multiple people use intermittently and has not entered ANYTHING from 2008 into their "official system". That is 9 months behind!

Any more information or help with this is greatly appreciated.

[Unregistered]

I think i would still have to tell her that she is not getting a dime!!!! If she can't provide you with proper proof as to when these dates are......she could be making them up! This can be taken all the way, as far a court! I would say that you sound like a pretty level headed guy......No judge will award her anything if she can not produce the paper work, the "proof" persay of the dates! And if she is bringing up collections i think i would just tell her why don't we skip collections and I'll just see ya in small claims!!! Don't let her bully you!!! And ya know it may not be about the money its the principle of the matter.

[DadwithQuestions]

I think i would still have to tell her that she is not getting a dime!!!! If she can't provide you with proper proof as to when these dates are......she could be making them up! This can be taken all the way, as far a court! I would say that you sound like a pretty level headed guy......No judge will award her anything if she can not produce the paper work, the "proof" persay of the dates! And if she is bringing up collections i think i would just tell her why don't we skip collections and I'll just see ya in small claims!!! Don't let her bully you!!! And ya know it may not be about the money its the principle of the matter.

Thanks for the message. If she had actual dates down and said the same thing each time she brought it up, it would be ok, but everytime she brings it up, she says it started in a different month and has yet to give us exact dates.

The next time she says something about it, I am going to let her know that she can not collect on 2007 since we can not claim it on taxes nor will the business so if there is a mistake in the 2007 calendar year, it just needs to be written off as a business loss. The Company I work for does that not only yearly, but monthly, in their books.

I am still in awe that they have not entered any 2008 information into their system. no wonder they are still trying to play catch up from 2007. They are at least 9 months behind in their book keeping.

It is just frustrating to me that she can't pin point exact weeks/dates that she keeps siting, but insists we are behind and owe her 4 or 5 weeks (she isnt sure which).

If she can bring up specific 2008 dates and show me, then I will be glad to go ahead and pay for time we missed and did not pay for, but I refuse to just write a check to them for the total they "think" she missed and didnt get paid for. as mentioned, I still think anything found for 2007 is just a lost cause because of us not getting credit for paying and them not being taxed on it.

They suddenly seem to have a lot of classes that aren't full and have open enrollment signs outside. her class went from being totally fun and having two teachers to have a max of 5 kids in there, but usually only 3 or 4.

I don't know. It is frustrating for us as parents and because of their bad accounting/book keeping, they try to just tell us we owe $*** but cant site exactly when from.

I really appreciate your input!

[Ms.Sue]

This issue here is that when you enrolled in the daycare, your signed a contract which explained all the rules of payment, etc..... It is your responsibility to abide by that contract. I also run a child care center and we have the same system. Parents basically purchase a 'slot' for a year. Payment is expected for the entire year - regardless of attendance. So basically it really isn't an issue of 'attendance' --- your are paying for a slot in that childcare for your child. It's kind of like a car payment --- you make a monthy payment whether you drove it every day or not. Your're not going to call Ford and say - I was sick and didn't drive it for two weeks so I shouldn't have to pay for those two weeks.

[Unregistered]

Yes, but if they daycare isnt doing their books/accouting correctly (or at all in this case), it is their responsibility to let us know within a reasonable time that there is a problem.

This issue has already been resolved and they did not pursue the issue further once they had other parents with similar issues but could not get any assistance from management at the daycare. They never could give us exact dates missed or even what dates they were missing payments. they eventually gave me 3 weeks they were "missing", but I had the bank give me copies of checks for those weeks, so it really threw the daycare for a loop and they have no idea where everything is getting credited to or where all of their confusion or accounting has gone wrong.

[lilbiddapopcorn]

Not your problem

It is the parents responsibility to pay BUT it's the daycare's responsibility to keep their records straight. You don't just come out of nowhere and say "Oh! By the way! You owe 5 weeks worth of fees!" They SHOULD be able to show you why you owe that and give you a time frame. I've never let a parent get that far behind in fees, that's ridiculous. If I were in the same situation, I would do exactly what you did. If there's a disagreement between the provider and the parent on whether or not payment was made, well, that's where people need to bring in their records. If they can't keep their records the way they're supposed to, how do they even know you owe them anything? And if you've got proof you've paid what they say you owe...They just don't sound like they've got it together enough to take you to court for anything.

[Ms.Sue]

Agreed...........

Agreed! If they are not accounting for their tuition - then that is their issue - and if they can't prove you did or didn't pay - they have to take it as a loss and move on.
It is probably a wise idea to get out of their anyway. If they can take control of their books --- then they probably are keeping up with regulations or proper care of the children.
Ms.Sue

As a center owner - if for any strange reason I did not account for a chil's tuition - I would be professional and take the loss. I wouldn't hold a parent accountable for my mistake.
Ms.Sue
Hope yout new center works out better --- good luck

[Unregistered]

We were recently told by our daycare GM that we were 4 or 5 weeks behind (they aren’t totally sure which). She showed us a paper that we signed when we first started our daughter there in Fed 07 that was just a word document that had some rules on it, one of which was about giving one vacation per year and all other weeks still had to be paid even without attendance.

We didn’t realize this and they told us in the last week about this. They gave us a copy of their accounting sheets. My wife has been in banking/accounting for 11 years and can’t make heads or tails of how they even keep track of attendance/payments.

The GM is only there a couple hours per week (about half a day per week at most) and the owner is never there. I did some backtracking on our end by looking at our calendars and did see that we took one vacation this year (end of June), she had a seizure early June and missed a week and was sick in February and missed a week. So there is two that we are liable for. Even the GM says that multiple people do the book keeping and she has found other mistakes with other entries, but is going back to 2007 stuff and still not able to 100% tell us exactly where she is talking about the non-payment.

We know that we have paid for the full week when she shows up, even if it is only for a couple of days. I admit that we didn’t realize about the payment for absenses and will take care of those two weeks for 2008, but for 2007?

My biggest question is, why are they just now telling us this after 6 months or even a year (or more) after it happened? Their books definitely seem “mickey moused” for lack of a better saying and even she can’t show us exactly when this all happened. We found on our own the 3 total weeks missed this year and one was the allowed vacation. I would think this SHOULD be something they notice and notify us (or whomever) with a few weeks of the miss since someone has to be (or should be) on the books at least once a week to double check and enter new info.

On another note, out of shear coincendence, my wife was promoted this week (something that they have had in the works for over a month, but finally was approved by upper management) and will be able to work from home except for a few hours a week for a meeting. We will likely use a mother’s day out type of thing for that since this daycare does not offer any type of part time thing. We are giving our two week notice as they do request there, but we know it is going to look bad on us, but it is just a timing thing.

Thoughts/questions/etc are welcome on this very odd situation. I would love a daycare's point of view on this as well as fellow parents.

---------------------------------------------------

I am a provider. The provider can go to collections and mess up your credit and also get it garnished. I would see if you can talk to someone in a credit reporting position or even a lawyer and explain it to them.

In our daycare home, we have a sign in sheet (I make the parents sign in themselves-even if they are late). I tell them that is for everyones protection. If a parent tells daycare assistance I am fraudulantly claiming more hours, I can get in big trouble. If I were to claim more jours than they were really here, the parent would get into trouble and have to pay extra. It shows in the parents handwriting, exactly what hours their child is in care. I can't claim more hours and the parent can't claim less hours. Also, if a daycare assistance parent does not go to work and I am paid for it, it shows they signed their child in for work, but never went to work.
I also have one of my moms, that went through court problems b/c the dad (they are split up) was claiming he had his son, was getting welfare, food stamps and I think he was also getting WIC. They started charging her child support and garnishing her wages (it was terrible), all from what the dad said and him not showing any proof. That is crazy, but things happen and sign in sheets (parents signing only), could save a parent or provider.
When they were together, he controlled her, she had no friends or witnesses. She had no proof that her son was with her all that time. Her only witnesses were me, my 2 adult daughters that run our daycare with me, the other parents that see her come and go or see him here AND all our sign in sheets with her singature. Even if I signed him in and out, someone could say the mom and I had an arrangement where I fraudulantly altered attendance records and collect money (daycare assistance), when he was actually with the dad. I wrote a letter to the court, informed them of his full time attendance and absences and the the sign in sheets and he is now getting in trouble.

Parents should always keep hours documentd on a calendar at home or in the car (it must be completely accurate - you can't go into court or where ever and say "well, I think I signed in somewhere around 7:15", you need accurate records and keep them for several years). Someone could contact you in the future to verify something.

[Unregistered]

We were recently told by our daycare GM that we were 4 or 5 weeks behind (they aren’t totally sure which). She showed us a paper that we signed when we first started our daughter there in Fed 07 that was just a word document that had some rules on it, one of which was about giving one vacation per year and all other weeks still had to be paid even without attendance.

We didn’t realize this and they told us in the last week about this. They gave us a copy of their accounting sheets. My wife has been in banking/accounting for 11 years and can’t make heads or tails of how they even keep track of attendance/payments.

The GM is only there a couple hours per week (about half a day per week at most) and the owner is never there. I did some backtracking on our end by looking at our calendars and did see that we took one vacation this year (end of June), she had a seizure early June and missed a week and was sick in February and missed a week. So there is two that we are liable for. Even the GM says that multiple people do the book keeping and she has found other mistakes with other entries, but is going back to 2007 stuff and still not able to 100% tell us exactly where she is talking about the non-payment.

We know that we have paid for the full week when she shows up, even if it is only for a couple of days. I admit that we didn’t realize about the payment for absenses and will take care of those two weeks for 2008, but for 2007?

My biggest question is, why are they just now telling us this after 6 months or even a year (or more) after it happened? Their books definitely seem “mickey moused” for lack of a better saying and even she can’t show us exactly when this all happened. We found on our own the 3 total weeks missed this year and one was the allowed vacation. I would think this SHOULD be something they notice and notify us (or whomever) with a few weeks of the miss since someone has to be (or should be) on the books at least once a week to double check and enter new info.

On another note, out of shear coincendence, my wife was promoted this week (something that they have had in the works for over a month, but finally was approved by upper management) and will be able to work from home except for a few hours a week for a meeting. We will likely use a mother’s day out type of thing for that since this daycare does not offer any type of part time thing. We are giving our two week notice as they do request there, but we know it is going to look bad on us, but it is just a timing thing.

Thoughts/questions/etc are welcome on this very odd situation. I would love a daycare's point of view on this as well as fellow parents.

Always make sure you pay with a check or get a receipt.

[verainput]

Discrepany at Daycare

Hey Group,

I have two children in daycare at an expense for 1,500 per month. My wife, a teacher, makes less than 40k per year. She nets around 500 per month after daycare expenses but does hold great benefits for the entire family. I make enough to put us in the top tax bracket but have no benefits.

All of this in mind, am I benefiting enough on the tax side to make it worth my wifes time to work? Or, should she stop and allow me to claim her as a dependent and then pay for insurance?

I appreciate any thoughts.

[kendallina]

New development:

Talked to the GM today and she said she is going to turn it over to collections next week.

She still isnt sure when the occurrences were. She originally said Dec 07 is the start of it, then said in another conversation that it was Sept 07, now today she said it looks like it started in Oct 07.

How can she try to do a collections thing on something she cant even verify where the problem was and still admits that they have found issues with their logs.

I also found out that she said she is going strictly off a log that multiple people use intermittently and has not entered ANYTHING from 2008 into their "official system". That is 9 months behind!

Any more information or help with this is greatly appreciated.

Whoa- she doesn't even know the dates and she's turning you over to collections!?! That's crazy! Do you happen to have receipts or a record from the bank that you can get regarding the payments you've made? That's horrible how disorganized they are and then to expect payment when you or they don't even know what days you are paying for. I have no suggestions (sorry...don't know much about collections or small claims), but just wanted to say I'm sorry that you are in this situation and I hope you are able to get it resolved.

ETA: ARGH! How do threads from 2008 creep up in here...LOL!

[kendallina]

nm...............