Provider's PAID Vacation?

[Blackcat31]

Very well said! You are right, we need a sit down to work it out. I wanted to make sure that before I do that, I have a leg to stand on and not just complaining about things that are very common in childcare...Thanks for the help!!!!!

You are welcome and I sincerely hope you are able to find a good compromise.

Please update if you get the chance.

I'd be interested in hearing how it went.

I love when parents and providers can find that happy medium.

After all, it IS in the best interest of the child and at the end of the day, that should really be what's important.

[Blackcat31]

I kind of disagree with you here. Many service providers DO change their contracts with little or no notice. Just the other day when I paid my hubby's XM radio for his semi, I got online to find out they no longer had his plan and the "new" one I can get costs more. I have two choices, either pay the rate increase with the channel changes or shut off his radio service. I am eating the few bucks, because well my life is just easier keeping the hubby happy in the semi.

I would not be okay with that.

My DH and I have been XM subscribers with multiple devices since 2007 and I am still paying the same price and have the same plan as I did when I signed up with them.

The plan and the rate are no longer options as you said but we were told we were "grandfathered" in when they made the move to combine with Sirius and they have honored that. They did say though that if my services were ever turned off for non-payment then I lose that option, otherwise though we still get what was promised to us when we first signed on.

[Thriftylady]

I would not be okay with that.

My DH and I have been XM subscribers with multiple devices since 2007 and I am still paying the same price and have the same plan as I did when I signed up with them.

The plan and the rate are no longer options as you said but we were told we were "grandfathered" in when they made the move to combine with Sirius and they have honored that. They did say though that if my services were ever turned off for non-payment then I lose that option, otherwise though we still get what was promised to us when we first signed on.

Maybe I should call them then. We have two devices one for home and one in the truck. Our service was not turned off, but they did give me an auto call when the card didn't work (the bank replaced hubbys card), so I got online and fixed it. Hubby would come unglued if I let it get shut off .

[e.j.]

Before I start another riot, I need to say this, I AM FINE PAYING VACATION TIME, AND HOLIDAYS. My wife and I get paid holidays off, so its not like I am "out money" plus it's free time with my kids which I love. However here are the things I have some frustrations with, and I am wondering if I am out of line being frustrated. I just don't know your business model, so maybe I am out of line with my frustrations:

1st- My provider takes 20 days paid off NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAYS, once again that doesn't frustrates me, what does is the fact they are so spread out. Will most providers take a week at a time? We unfortunately don't live near any family so it's really hard finding someone to watch them for a day or two at a time. If they took a week at a time it would justify driving my kids 6 hours to my parents and dropping them off for the week. So what happens is I use all my vacation and my wife's vacation to cover my providers days off, so when we want to take a vacation we have 2 choices, take it unpaid, or plan short vacations around our providers.

2nd- On top of the planned vacation on 4 separate occasions we got a text message the night before telling us they had an emergency and could not be open the next days, yet I still had to pay for that time even though they could not provide services. Considering she has 20 paid days off, shouldn't this come out of their days off? If you break the math down 20 days paid off would basically equal a month off a year, most people (including myself) will get 2 weeks (10 working days) and a week of sick (5 working days) off in a year. IF I have a sick child and my wife can't stay home with them, I have to use either a vacation day or sick day to cover me being home with my children. That is on me so if my provider is either sick or has to close for an emergency, shouldn't that have to come out of their paid time off in their contract?

3rd- (this one was what prompted my question here) Yesterday my provider told me at pick up she had a family issue next week, so I asked her if that would be in place of the 5 days she already has scheduled off for vacation in the month of August, she actually seemed insulted that I would ask her and told me no, YET I still have to pay for those extra 2 days.

4th- We pay a month in advance, so if we try and plan a day off and give my provider a month notice that we would be gone a day or two, we still have to pay or we lose our place in her daycare, so why is it ok that she can tell me a week or even day before she will be closed (outside of holidays and paid time off) and I have to pay, but if I give her plenty of lead time I can't pro-rate the month.

Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?

Look I know this sounds like I am bashing my provider, and I am not, she loves all the kids and treats them great, and I trust her and support her, but these things are hard to shake, so what do you think, and I being overly sensitive on this or do I have a reason to feel a little slighted?

Thanks so much!

I've started to respond to this post several times and each time, I've decided to delete my reply and walk away from it. It's really been bothering me for some reason, though, so here goes:

It may seem like a double standard for me to say this but rather than giving you leverage, bringing up the missing snack time just comes across as petty to me. I get the point you're trying to make and I agree the contract should be followed by both parties but...you said yourself that it's "no biggie" so why bring it up? She may start serving the second snack to appease you and to keep you from accusing her of not following her own contract but it won't resolve the real issue: the excessive amount of time she's taking off at your expense.

For the record, I would be extremely frustrated if I were in your shoes - although I would never have signed on with her in the first place. Those 20 paid days off in addition to holidays would have been a deal breaker for me.
What amounts to unlimited time off with pay would definitely not have worked for me when I had my child in day care. I didn't have friends or family who could watch my child at a moments notice (they all had jobs and kids, too!) so I would have lost my job trying to cover her time off.

I agree with the suggestion to discuss the issue with her to see if a compromise can be reached. (She's got a good thing going, though, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope that anything will change!) If a compromise isn't possible, I would start looking for another provider with policies more in sync with what works best for you.

[Thriftylady]

I've started to respond to this post several times and each time, I've decided to delete my reply and walk away from it. It's really been bothering me for some reason, though, so here goes:

It may seem like a double standard for me to say this but rather than giving you leverage, bringing up the missing snack time just comes across as petty to me. I get the point you're trying to make and I agree the contract should be followed by both parties but...you said yourself that it's "no biggie" so why bring it up? She may start serving the second snack to appease you and to keep you from accusing her of not following her own contract but it won't resolve the real issue: the excessive amount of time she's taking off at your expense.

For the record, I would be extremely frustrated if I were in your shoes - although I would never have signed on with her in the first place. Those 20 paid days off in addition to holidays would have been a deal breaker for me.
What amounts to unlimited time off with pay would definitely not have worked for me when I had my child in day care. I didn't have friends or family who could watch my child at a moments notice (they all had jobs and kids, too!) so I would have lost my job trying to cover her time off.

I agree with the suggestion to discuss the issue with her to see if a compromise can be reached. (She's got a good thing going, though, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope that anything will change!) If a compromise isn't possible, I would start looking for another provider with policies more in sync with what works best for you.

I agree with this. I personally would never sign a contract with a provider who took that many days off either. I have never had a job that would allow that much time off or people that could help me fill in. I don't take near that amount of time off. BUT once you sign the contract, you are stuck. Your only option is to find a new provider and end your contract.

[Unregistered]

I agree with this. I personally would never sign a contract with a provider who took that many days off either. I have never had a job that would allow that much time off or people that could help me fill in. I don't take near that amount of time off. BUT once you sign the contract, you are stuck. Your only option is to find a new provider and end your contract.

Thanks for the responses. I should have been more specific on why we chose our current provider. We had our children in a early child development center (basically a school setting that went from infant through preschool) and this center basically followed the public school's schedule. So all major holidays, plus spring and winter breaks, and teacher institution days. The catch was when there was a snow/cold weather day and the public school closed, so did our provider. Now where we live we get A LOT of those during the winter months. So when we averaged out the time my current provide has off in her contract compared to the time off my previous provider had off, and figured in bad weather days off it was basically a push.

So maybe I had gotten off topic in my original post, because it seems that everyone is going back to my contract and the days off. As I stated, I knew the days off before I signed the contract, what my questions really is, should I be responsible paying for last minute days off that are not in my providers schedule? Now let me clarify that, I get things come up, however if you need a day off due to sickness, emergency, ect. Shouldn't that come out of their days off they had planned? If I have a week vacation planned and I have a kid that comes down with the flu and I have to take a few days off, then that comes out of my vacation and or sick day. I don't get to add on extra days. Anyways I do have a meeting with her coming up next week to discuss this. The reason I am coming here was simple to see if this was common practice.

Thanks again

[e.j.]

what my questions really is, should I be responsible paying for last minute days off that are not in my providers schedule? Now let me clarify that, I get things come up, however if you need a day off due to sickness, emergency, ect. Shouldn't that come out of their days off they had planned?

You sound like a very understanding person when it comes to days off. Personally, I agree that those unexpected days off really should come out of the 20 paid leave days/holidays and that any additional days off should be unpaid. In my contract, I state that I take holidays paid. All other days including sick time, emergency days off and vacation weeks are unpaid. I set this policy when I first opened my day care because it was the norm for this area at the time and because as a former dc parent, I wanted to treat my dc parents in the same way I would have wanted to be treated. I think my policy is fair so I've continued with it regardless of what may be the norm in my area now, almost 19 years later.

What you or I or anyone else believes, though, is immaterial. It all really does boil down to "What is in her contract?" You can argue that something isn't fair but if you agreed to it, you need to follow it.

Whether a policy is common practice or not probably depends a lot on the area in which you live. Do you have co-workers who have their children in day cares who could tell you what their experience has been? They might be able to give you a better idea as to what the norm is in your area. You can bring it up to your provider and say, "Hey, I've spoken with 20 co-worker and they all said their providers do......." She may change her policy or develop one that goes along with what everyone else is doing. Or....she may decide she likes her current policy the way it is. If no one else is complaining and she isn't losing a lot of business because of it she isn't likely to change anything. It doesn't hurt to discuss the issue with her, though.

Either way, the bottom line, again, is, "What does her signed contract state?" If her contract states that any additional sick days taken outside the 20 paid days will be unpaid, then she should not be charging you. If there is no policy on those additional days, you may have an argument and she may just hear you out. If I were you, though, I'd be prepared for the possibility that she will just revise her contract to read that all days closed are paid days. Like I said before, she's got a good thing going. She isn't likely to want to change that.
Good luck. I'd love to hear what happens.

[Blackcat31]

What you or I or anyone else believes, though, is immaterial. It all really does boil down to "What is in her contract?" You can argue that something isn't fair but if you agreed to it, you need to follow it.

I think that might be part of the issue though....

The family did agree to the paid days off etc but there was nothing addressed regarding other days off. Unplanned days that are not mentioned in the contract.

Honestly, I agree with the parent here and if the provider doesn't list specific days and/or a number of specific days that parents will be required to pay for even though services aren't available the provider should take the loss.

I list x amount of days I will be closed AD still charging families. ANY days I take off that aren't listed or go above my allotted number of days off, I take the loss. I don't charge the parents for those days.

I think that is what this parent is trying to figure out.

[Unregistered]

I think that might be part of the issue though....

The family did agree to the paid days off etc but there was nothing addressed regarding other days off. Unplanned days that are not mentioned in the contract.

Honestly, I agree with the parent here and if the provider doesn't list specific days and/or a number of specific days that parents will be required to pay for even though services aren't available the provider should take the loss.

I list x amount of days I will be closed AD still charging families. ANY days I take off that aren't listed or go above my allotted number of days off, I take the loss. I don't charge the parents for those days.

I think that is what this parent is trying to figure out.

Thanks all! Yep you are right, there is nothing in the contract about emergency days off being paid for by the parent. Like I said, I have a ton of respect for DCP and unlike a lot of people I see post on here, I do think that you all deserve time off paid. Would I like the time off be more organized (like a week at a time), of course but we certainly know we don't get everything we want. I just like to have all my ducks in a row before I go have a meeting with my provider, because one thing I don't like is being lied to, or talking around the issue at hand. So I was curious what other professionals in the field have to say about the topic before I accidentally burn a bridge over something that is common place.

Thanks again

[Unregistered]

"If no one else is complaining and she isn't losing a lot of business because of it she isn't likely to change anything. It doesn't hurt to discuss the issue with her, though."


Hey EJ, just to follow up, I don't know all the parents using our provider, however we do have a good relationship with a couple families using our provider, and the frustration is starting to show. I just happen to be the only one that is brash (however respectful) enough to speak with the provider about it.

I have another one for you if you (or anyone that doesn't mind answering) I was just speaking with one of the parents we are friends with last night. Our providers is closed today and Monday for vacation. Now you have the option to pay either a week at a time or month, as long as it is before service is provided. Well the family informed me last night that since they pay by week their normal pay day is Monday morning, well since our provider is gone on vacation, they actually showed up to their work last night and asked for their next week payment before they left on vacation. Now how does that work, if you are on a vacation and your pay period falls on a day you have off, do you have to pay before hand? ( keep in mind there in nothing in the contract that is stating this policy, just that payment is due before service is rendered) I guess maybe I am just nitpicking, but I would have been pretty upset if I was at work and my provider showed up to collect like some back alley bookie . The kicker was this couple paid through Monday of next week on their last payment day knowing the provider was closed this Monday and then on Tuesday morning they were going to pay for the rest of the week as normal.

Just picking your brains, thanks again!

[Blackcat31]

I have another one for you if you (or anyone that doesn't mind answering) I was just speaking with one of the parents we are friends with last night. Our providers is closed today and Monday for vacation. Now you have the option to pay either a week at a time or month, as long as it is before service is provided. Well the family informed me last night that since they pay by week their normal pay day is Monday morning, well since our provider is gone on vacation, they actually showed up to their work last night and asked for their next week payment before they left on vacation. Now how does that work, if you are on a vacation and your pay period falls on a day you have off, do you have to pay before hand? ( keep in mind there in nothing in the contract that is stating this policy, just that payment is due before service is rendered) I guess maybe I am just nitpicking, but I would have been pretty upset if I was at work and my provider showed up to collect like some back alley bookie . The kicker was this couple paid through Monday of next week on their last payment day knowing the provider was closed this Monday and then on Tuesday morning they were going to pay for the rest of the week as normal.

Just picking your brains, thanks again!

Wow, showing up at the parent's place of employment?? That is HIGHLY unprofessional in my opinion and NOT something I would ever do!!

When I am closed for vacation (let's use the time frame you used above...closed on Friday AND Monday) I require payments (normally due on Fridays) to be paid on Thursdays buuuuuut I do not cash checks or deposit them until Saturday mornings. Which is written in my handbook.

Parents that pay me via bank transfers can still pay as planned whether I am open or not unless the bank is closed and then they pay the first business day after the bank closure.

If a parent pays cash and can't come up with the cash the day(s) before it's normally due, it is payable the following day I am open (with no late fee penalty)

I simply do not believe it's proper/right or good business practices to expect someone to have money to pay me BEFORE it's technically due when it's MY situation (vacation days) that caused the situation.


Wow, I am kind of shocked at the providers behavior...

[e.j.]

I think that might be part of the issue though....

The family did agree to the paid days off etc but there was nothing addressed regarding other days off. Unplanned days that are not mentioned in the contract.

Honestly, I agree with the parent here and if the provider doesn't list specific days and/or a number of specific days that parents will be required to pay for even though services aren't available the provider should take the loss.

I list x amount of days I will be closed AD still charging families. ANY days I take off that aren't listed or go above my allotted number of days off, I take the loss. I don't charge the parents for those days.

I think that is what this parent is trying to figure out.

I totally agree with you and the parent. I think we're saying the same thing. You are maybe just saying it better. See below.

Either way, the bottom line, again, is, "What does her signed contract state?" If her contract states that any additional sick days taken outside the 20 paid days will be unpaid, then she should not be charging you. If there is no policy on those additional days, you may have an argument and she may just hear you out. If I were you, though, I'd be prepared for the possibility that she will just revise her contract to read that all days closed are paid days. Like I said before, she's got a good thing going. She isn't likely to want to change that.

[childcaremom]

"If no one else is complaining and she isn't losing a lot of business because of it she isn't likely to change anything. It doesn't hurt to discuss the issue with her, though."


Hey EJ, just to follow up, I don't know all the parents using our provider, however we do have a good relationship with a couple families using our provider, and the frustration is starting to show. I just happen to be the only one that is brash (however respectful) enough to speak with the provider about it.

I have another one for you if you (or anyone that doesn't mind answering) I was just speaking with one of the parents we are friends with last night. Our providers is closed today and Monday for vacation. Now you have the option to pay either a week at a time or month, as long as it is before service is provided. Well the family informed me last night that since they pay by week their normal pay day is Monday morning, well since our provider is gone on vacation, they actually showed up to their work last night and asked for their next week payment before they left on vacation. Now how does that work, if you are on a vacation and your pay period falls on a day you have off, do you have to pay before hand? ( keep in mind there in nothing in the contract that is stating this policy, just that payment is due before service is rendered) I guess maybe I am just nitpicking, but I would have been pretty upset if I was at work and my provider showed up to collect like some back alley bookie . The kicker was this couple paid through Monday of next week on their last payment day knowing the provider was closed this Monday and then on Tuesday morning they were going to pay for the rest of the week as normal.

Just picking your brains, thanks again!

I can't believe that happened!

My policy is that payment is due on Fridays, regardless of illness, vacation or closure. Late fees will apply if not received on the Friday by 9 am. All of my families currently use emt and send it on Wed or Thurs. I accept the transfer on Friday morning prior to arrivals.

I just find that keeping the day the same regardless of anything else going on, keeps it clear. That is my policy, though, and is clearly stated in my handbook.

I would never show up at a parent's work, though. That is strange and very unprofessional, imho.

[Unregistered]

I can't believe that happened!

My policy is that payment is due on Fridays, regardless of illness, vacation or closure. Late fees will apply if not received on the Friday by 9 am. All of my families currently use emt and send it on Wed or Thurs. I accept the transfer on Friday morning prior to arrivals.

I just find that keeping the day the same regardless of anything else going on, keeps it clear. That is my policy, though, and is clearly stated in my handbook.

I would never show up at a parent's work, though. That is strange and very unprofessional, imho.

Thanks for replies!!!! I like how you all run your payment plans. One if the issues I know some of the other parents run into is payment method. Our provider ONLY accepts cash, no check, transfer, or even one of those little card readers for smart phones. Hence while I pay a month in advance, because like the family I stated above, they have to remember to stop at the bank either on Friday night or Saturday so they have the cash for the provider on Monday. I can understand the provider maybe not taking a check if they have gotten burned in the past, but it sure doesn't make it easier.

BTW I am really not trying to bash my provider, and I know this sounds like I am whining, I promise I am not, because we do like do like her with our children.

[e.j.]

"If no one else is complaining and she isn't losing a lot of business because of it she isn't likely to change anything. It doesn't hurt to discuss the issue with her, though."


Hey EJ, just to follow up, I don't know all the parents using our provider, however we do have a good relationship with a couple families using our provider, and the frustration is starting to show. I just happen to be the only one that is brash (however respectful) enough to speak with the provider about it.

I'm not surprised to hear that others are feeling frustrated, too. Unfortunately, if they aren't willing to back you up, she still has little incentive to change the way she does things. Like I said before, she's got a good thing going. She'd be crazy to give it up if she doesn't have to. No matter how much time she takes off, she gets paid for it. If she has enough parents willing to pay for days beyond the 20 they originally agreed to, why would she change for one parent who is brash enough to complain.

You know her; I don't. What do you think will happen once you raise this issue with her? I'm thinking she could either see the error of her ways, apologize and agree to stop charging you for days off beyond the agreed upon 20 or she could thank you for your input, update her contract to include wording that will allow her unlimited paid time off and then offer you the choice of signing the updated contract or finding another provider. If I were in your situation, I'd speak up but I'd also be looking around to see what else is out there in case you find yourself having to make that choice.

...since our provider is gone on vacation, they actually showed up to their work last night and asked for their next week payment before they left on vacation. Now how does that work, if you are on a vacation and your pay period falls on a day you have off, do you have to pay before hand? ( keep in mind there in nothing in the contract that is stating this policy, just that payment is due before service is rendered) I guess maybe I am just nitpicking, but I would have been pretty upset if I was at work and my provider showed up to collect like some back alley bookie . The kicker was this couple paid through Monday of next week on their last payment day knowing the provider was closed this Monday and then on Tuesday morning they were going to pay for the rest of the week as normal.

Just picking your brains, thanks again!

! I would never feel comfortable just showing up at a client's workplace to ask for a check. I'm kind of speechless to think someone would!

I'm paid Mondays (or on the first day of the week a child is scheduled for care) for the week. So if, for example, I had planned to be closed for vacation today and this coming Monday, the payment for today would have been included in this past Monday's check. This coming Monday's payment would be included in next week's check and I would just wait until Tuesday to collect it since Tuesday would be the first day I was open for the week. Basically, I would have expected to be paid in the exact way your friend planned to pay this provider. Even if a parent failed to pay on time, I would attach late payment fees before I'd head over to his place of employment to collect payment.

Btw, you have come across to me as reasonable, understanding and more than patient - not whining or bashing. I think you have a legitimate concern. Since you seem happy with the care she provides overall, I hope you can find a way to work through this with her. Good luck.