No Outdoor Time at All? Really?

[Adaryn]

I'm frustrated, concerned, and a little overwhelmed right now. A few things came to my attention recently in regards to my daughter's daycare provider, and I'm not sure at this point what is overreaction on my part, and what is valid.

The issue on the table - no outdoor time - came to my attention accidentally. I was notified that my daughter, who is four and a half years old, was being 'disruptive' during naptime. I had noticed she was requiring less and less sleep at home, and figured she was just growing up and growing out of naptime. I asked her daycare if they could provide her with some books to read while laying on her mat, and they said no. They require her to lay down on her mat and sleep, and when she did not do so - and consequently began disrupting the other kids because she was bored out of her skull - they opted to put her in the corner and punish her for not sleeping.

As I considered why she was so restless lately, I wondered if maybe we should start stepping up her physical activity during the day. If she's not getting her energy out, I reasoned, then of course she wouldn't be able to sleep. So I inquired about how much time they spend outside, and was informed they do not take the kids outside -at all- in the winter. I do not know for certain when the last time was they took the kids out.

I was really quite upset about this - felt like a little bit of a failure as a mom for not having informed myself about this prior to now - and checked their policy about outdoor time. It says, in essence, they take the kids out "weather permitting." When I signed the contract for my daughter's daycare, I presumed this meant to the provider the same thing it meant for most grown-ups: if the child is appropriately dressed, they will be taken outside for at least SOME period of time every day, unless the conditions are so harsh as to be dangerous. I will note that we live on the Idaho/Washington border - the daycare is in Idaho, we live in Washington.

The combination of the lack of outdoor time and the issue surrounding naptime gave me what I felt was cause to seek out a new provider. I am not happy about having to disrupt my daughter's routine, but I don't feel her health and development are truly being safeguarded. I advised the current provider that I would not be returning my daughter to them, and I was direct - though as kind as I could be - about the reasons why.

There were no apologies on their part, no excuses, and in fact no attempt whatsoever to try to resolve the issues. Their only concern was in telling me to make sure I pay for the last two weeks that I signed a contract stating I would pay. I balked at this, and advised them that I did not feel they were holding up to their end of the contract, since they are not giving my daughter any time out-of-doors at all. They responded that the contract does not say they will take her outside every day. Which, I suppose, is true - it does not say that. It says 'weather permitting.'

I don't feel I'm being unreasonable in saying I should not have to pay for these last two weeks. I am not sending my daughter back somewhere that is not healthy for her to be, and I still have to provide childcare for these next two weeks. I cannot afford to pay both the new provider and the old. While it is my choice to move my daughter, it was not my preference; when I signed that contract, I was led to believe 'weather permitting' meant that they would allow her outside unless the conditions were dangerous. I do not feel thirty degrees, if bundled properly, is at all dangerous, and I doubt anyone else would either.

I have no idea what to do. Idaho does not, so far as I've found, have a law that states the kids have to be taken outside (although Washington, thankfully, does.) Am I being unreasonable? What should I do?

[AfterSchoolMom]

I have three questions regarding your situation. One, does your child attend a home daycare, two, does your current provider have infants in her care currently, and three, how many children in total does she care for? I ask these only because if she provides care out of her home and has even one infant, or if she has a large group with no one to help with bundling up a large group and/or caring for the very young ones while the rest are outside, those are both (in my opinion) very good reasons not to take them outside in 30 degree (which is below freezing) weather. HOWEVER, if there isn't ample space or opportunity for appropriate movement and exercise during the day while they're inside, then you've probably made a good decision in taking your daughter out. I also completely disagree with the idea of forcing children to sleep, especially preschoolers, and that would have been ample reason for removing her if it were my child.

With that said, if your contract states that you must provide 2 weeks' notice and pay for that time, and if you did not clarify any issues or questions with your provider before signing the contract.... I'd say that you're contractually obligated to pay, and that if it came to a court situation, the court would probably rule in favor of the provider.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, and maybe some of the more experienced here will correct me, but that's just my 2 cents. Sorry that you have to go through this! I hope you're able to find another fantastic provider for your daughter.

[lvt77]

I feel sad for both you and your daughter and am sorry that your family is not having a good experience. I am in CA and there in no law that states that the children must have x amount of outdoor play time. It is up to the provider. Sounds like it must be the same policy there as well. I would call and check with your state licensing, as I know that some states do require a certain amount of play time for every child regardless of age. I believe that your state will also have a website that you can go to for the information. Perhaps google Idaho state daycare licensing.
I would not beat yourself up about not doing your part; I would have assumed the same thing too. But the unfortunate part is that if you signed a contract agreeing to her policy, then it looks like you will have to abide by it.
It's sad, but unfortunately true.

[Adaryn]

Those are great questions, AfterSchoolMom, and I completely see where you're going with them.

The daycare is not an in-home provider. They do have a few little ones, but they have specific adults in charge of each age-group, so there are grown-ups in charge of the wee ones, and a different adult in charge of my daughter's age-group.

I wish I'd thought to ask some of these questions as well. Thankfully, although the new daycare is substantially more expensive, they seem a fantastic fit. Thank you for your thoughts, and your well-wishes!

[jen]

Hmmm...I am a home daycare provider, I have 2 infants, 1 toddler, and 4 preschoolers...it was 23 degrees today and I took them all oustide. I got them bundled and unbundled without an assistant.

Personally, I don't think having an infant in care or the number of children in care, should effect if kids go outside. Kids need fresh air and exercise! Here in Minnesota, I guess we grow them a bit sturdier, but they are expected to be outside for 20 minutes per day.

And here's the but, I still think you are on the hook for the 2 weeks. Sorry, I know I would feel frustrated too. Be sure to ask your next provider what "weather permitting" means to them!

[Daycare_Mama]

I agree with Jen, but I'm in MN too and we go out in very cold weather even if it's just for a little bit! Having younger kids in care shouldn't affect bringing them outside...babies can be bundled up just as older kids!

If the state doesn't have any laws on outside time each day, then the provider is probably able to make up her own rules about "weather permitting" So, even though it ****s, technically you should have clarified just what that means to them. Unfortunately, it appears, to this daycare, that weather permitting means spring, summer, fall!

You could try to fight the weather permitting, but I have no idea how well you could argue that and if it would hold up in court. You signed a contract, so you'll likely have to pay for those 2 weeks regardless if whether or not you choose to still bring your daughter.

I agree with you though, I think its ridiculous that they won't let her lay down and read during nap time. That would have been reason enough to terminate, outside of the weather issue. For me naptime is for napping and quiet time and if I had a child that no longer napped, they would be required to keep themselves busy with quiet activities (books, puzzles, etc.).

I think you made a good decision in pulling your daughter and hope the next provider is much better for you!

[QualiTcare]

i think it's worth calling licensing to check. many times they ARE supposed to go outside if it's above freezing (period) even if it's one degree above freezing. unfortunately, providers don't always follow through and use their own judgement as to what "freezing" means aka if they think it's too cold, they don't go out even though they're supposed to. i've seen it a million times.

IF this is the case and they were not going outside when they should have been and then punishing your daughter for not napping (which in itself is wrong) then she may have breached the contract. she may not have - i can't say for sure, but like i said - it is worth calling licensing to ask.

[Abigail]

I agree to QualiTcare. You should call licensing. Write down your concerns because they will "investigate" the place. I would still pay (hope you can stretch two extra weeks in) and perhaps if licensing finds something in the least about the situation, you might be able to bring them to court to get your two weeks worth or even more because of ... ... ...(whatever your licensure feeds off of or whatever the center isn't doing correctly).

Meaning, proper care and steps have not been taken to care for your daughter to the best of their abilities. Find what this place's "philosophy" is and twist it up a little bit because honestly, a girl who is almost 5 should be able to sit quietly and entertain herself for an hour during nap time. Even if she needs to lay down for 30 minutes before starting the books/puzzles. Besides, if this place is according to age, they should have enough staff to have alternate activities available--even if they're not the more expensive place you currently enrolled your child in.

Lastly, licensing might not realize they've not taken the kids outside for even a walk in a long time. This sends out red flags. Licensing will ask about what indoor space they provide for cold/hot weather days that prevent them from going outside and what type of activities they do. If this center isn't doing their job right, then they will not have a good response, thus helping you get your money back for them not providing the best care possible...(or whatever they say in writing in their philosophy, etc.)

[cillybean83]

I havent taken my kids out in weeks and I hate it! I can't imagine a provider not WANTING to get them outside to play!

I have a 15 month old and a 13 month old and when they are both *healthy* (they've been passing a cold back and forth for a month) and when it isn't pouring rain (you would think we live in Seattle with the way it's been raining for days!) these two lil goobers LOVE to toddle around in the yard!

[nikia]

In this circumstance I cannot understand them not taking the kids outside, its a center, they have someone to stay with the little ones. I also have not taken my kids outside for awhile only because of one reason, ALL of the kids do NOT have proper winter clothes. The parents have been asked, told, called at work and nothing works so we cant go outside and its horrible.

As for the two weeks, I think that you owe them to her plain and simple. You signed a contract and need to follow it.

[Crystal]

Nikia...if I were you I'd ask the parents at drop off if they have the clothing/shoes they need to play outside for the day. If they say no, I'd say that the child cannot stay without it, the other children should not have to stay inside because the one child doesn't have proper attire. Send them home WITH the child to get what they need before returning. Do it with every one of them....I bet they don't forget again.

[KEG123]

I just moved into my house over the summer. As soon as we moved her I began the licensing procedures. THEN I come to find out the neighbor on one side of me is also a licensed provider....she has ALL these toys outside, but never in the 6 months I've lived here have I ever seen kids outside playing. Only at pickup/dropoff and when the kids get on the bus to go to kinder. WEIRD to me. I also mentioned it to my licensing rep when she came over and mentioned the neighbor. She looked surprised, but I didn't want to be a "tattle tale" so I said... "Well, maybe I just never see them??" but at least it gave her a heads up.

[Blackcat31]

Nikia...if I were you I'd ask the parents at drop off if they have the clothing/shoes they need to play outside for the day. If they say no, I'd say that the child cannot stay without it, the other children should not have to stay inside because the one child doesn't have proper attire. Send them home WITH the child to get what they need before returning. Do it with every one of them....I bet they don't forget again.

Good advice Crystal.....works like a charm too!

[nannyde]

This is a lot of issues at once.

About the money: Yes you should pay them their notice time. There were work around options that you could have done during the two week notice to meet her needs and satisfy their notice time. It was only two weeks. You could have gotten her up nice and early in the morning and bundled her up and go outside for a really good long walk. You possibly could have come on your lunch break and picked her up to get her outside. You could have kept her up later at night and then gotten her up earlier so that she would have had a higher liklihood of being tired during their nap time.

The discipline during nap could have been worked out with a conference regarding their policies during naptime and what she needed to do to comply. If it didn't work for you you could have arranged her to be picked up early and either done for the day or returned after nap time.

It's time like these when you have to really think outside of the box and make it work. Taking some half vacation days or enlisting the help of your support people could have really helped thru the transition.

They most likely have regulations that you can't find online such as their insurance regulations with their carrier. They may have agreements on weather conditions and when they do outside activities that don't have anything to do with the minimum standards of the State.

They also most likely have a huge issue with kids coming properly dressed in full winter gear that is in good working order. By this time of year... sadly... much of the outerwear the children wear has failing zippers and failing velcro and often doesn't fit as it did in September when it was purchased. Having enough winter gear in stock to use to make up for the failings of the parents or the failing of the gear is a pretty hard obstacle in center care.

It's also pretty difficult to get staff to agree to doing the HARD work of putting kids in weather appropriate full winter gear and undressing and sorting the clothing upon return into the room. I KNOW this cuz I pay for a staff assistant to dress eight kids and it is one of the most expensive activities in my child care during the winter months. Their staff may also not own proper winter gear for themselves.

It's also difficult to train and monitor staff who are dressing each kid and making sure that EVERY thing on the kid is cold weather appropriate. If you looked around the room you would most likely see kids in nylon sweats, thin pants, thin socks, short sleeved shirts, etc. Having the proper winter LAYERS to have them out for ANY length of time is the ultimate responsibility of the Center. It can take a TON of dedicated staff time to assess and procure the clothing the kids need to make them safe for more than a few minutes.

Then when they are outside they have to make sure it's WORKING in keeping hands, fingers, ears, etc WARM and untouched by the cold.

Leaving the mulititude of these tasks to low paid workers often results in it's better for the Center if they just stay indoors. This is most likely why they didn't try to work this out with you at all. It's cheaper and safer for them to just loose one client than to manage it.

I know it would seem that this isn't so difficult but you really have to BE the one responsible for a GROUP of little kids in cold weather... BE the one who dresses them... supervises them... and TRY to get the parents to bring proper clothing that is in GOOD working condition... to really understand why the Centers just surrender and keep them in.

Switching Centers and going to a more expensive situation is DEFINITELY going to help with insuring outdoor time in cold winter weather. Money makes ALL the difference. Fortunately for you, you can afford the higher rate to get the BEST for your child.

I was a school nurse in the early nineties in Iowa and the weather rules were: If it aint rainin the kids go out. Times have changed. My son now goes to the Des Moines Purblic Schools and they do not have the kids go out unless it's over 30 degrees during recess with NO wind chill. Most days they are inside during the winter. My son will go outside after school nearly every day when he wasn't allowed to go out at school. I believe the school district has just surrendered too knowing they really can't manage the clothing issues to keep kids safe.

[DBug]

Parents not dressing their kids for the weather -- that drives me a little bit crazy ! Where I come from, failing to provide weather-appropriate clothing for your child is neglect and therefore, child abuse.

How do parents get away with that? Yes, parents forget every once in awhile, but it should in no way be a regular thing!