What's More Important - Education or Comfort?

[Unregistered]

I'm asking this because me and my wife are both working parents. We have a 3 year old daughter, and a newborn on the way in December of this year. I feel like a horrible parent at this moment in time, as does my wife, because our daughter has been to 3 or 4 different childcare centers/Montessori's since she was born. We have never tried a home day care - my wife has a huge issue with it and is very distrusting of home day cares because of horror stories she has heard. I went to a home daycare growing up, and it was great, but my wife seems to think that that is the exception, not the norm. Anyways, we have bounced our daughter around from 2 or 3 different day care centers (where she was properly changed, napped, fed, etc.) but there was little as far as educational activities (which she thrives on). We made the decision this year to send her to an accredited Montessori. She is not yet potty-trained, but the teacher at the Montessori allowed us to send her there and said she would handle "accidents" even though children are supposed to be fully potty trained when starting at a Montessori pre-school. So this lady made an exception in our case, and said our daughter was very intelligent and need to go to Montessori, not a day care center. We have seen vast improvements in fine motor skills, spatial learning, vocabulary, and just about every intellectual category you can think of. Our daughter has done great with Montessori. The only problem is, she is still not potty trained, and this teacher will let her sit in her own "accidents" (I think) for possibly hours on end. Last night our daughter came home with a HORRIBLE diaper rash from this, and it was the last straw. I understand the need for an interactive and learning environment, like a Montessori, but maybe we should hold off from Montessori until she is fully potty-trained? In the meantime, that means sending her back to a day care center where she is put into a room with a bunch of kids and a bunch of toys with no planned lessons or organized activity throughout the day. My daughter gets bored with this and begins to dread going to day care every day. My wife is in panic mode at this point, because we are not sure where to send her. She has mentioned that she would just like to be a stay-at-home-mother, something she knows we can not do financially at this point in time. Add to that, a newborn on the way end of this year, and we still haven't been able to find a permanent day care during the week for our 3 year old. I've contemplated just hiring a nanny to come to our house for 8 or 9 hours a day Monday through Friday, although that could become pretty expensive. Sorry the thread is so long, I had to put this into words, because it has become very stressful for us. Any advice out there?

Thanks.

[Blackcat31]

I'm asking this because me and my wife are both working parents. We have a 3 year old daughter, and a newborn on the way in December of this year. I feel like a horrible parent at this moment in time, as does my wife, because our daughter has been to 3 or 4 different childcare centers/Montessori's since she was born. We have never tried a home day care - my wife has a huge issue with it and is very distrusting of home day cares because of horror stories she has heard. I went to a home daycare growing up, and it was great, but my wife seems to think that that is the exception, not the norm. Anyways, we have bounced our daughter around from 2 or 3 different day care centers (where she was properly changed, napped, fed, etc.) but there was little as far as educational activities (which she thrives on). We made the decision this year to send her to an accredited Montessori. She is not yet potty-trained, but the teacher at the Montessori allowed us to send her there and said she would handle "accidents" even though children are supposed to be fully potty trained when starting at a Montessori pre-school. So this lady made an exception in our case, and said our daughter was very intelligent and need to go to Montessori, not a day care center. We have seen vast improvements in fine motor skills, spatial learning, vocabulary, and just about every intellectual category you can think of. Our daughter has done great with Montessori. The only problem is, she is still not potty trained, and this teacher will let her sit in her own "accidents" (I think) for possibly hours on end. Last night our daughter came home with a HORRIBLE diaper rash from this, and it was the last straw. I understand the need for an interactive and learning environment, like a Montessori, but maybe we should hold off from Montessori until she is fully potty-trained? In the meantime, that means sending her back to a day care center where she is put into a room with a bunch of kids and a bunch of toys with no planned lessons or organized activity throughout the day. My daughter gets bored with this and begins to dread going to day care every day. My wife is in panic mode at this point, because we are not sure where to send her. She has mentioned that she would just like to be a stay-at-home-mother, something she knows we can not do financially at this point in time. Add to that, a newborn on the way end of this year, and we still haven't been able to find a permanent day care during the week for our 3 year old. I've contemplated just hiring a nanny to come to our house for 8 or 9 hours a day Monday through Friday, although that could become pretty expensive. Sorry the thread is so long, I had to put this into words, because it has become very stressful for us. Any advice out there?

Thanks.

Seems the easiest solution would be to devote a long weekend to potty training your DD.

Is she ready to be trained? Have you discussed your issue with the director at the Montessori school? Is she aware that you suspect your child is sitting in her own urine/feces for a lengthy amount of time? I suppose they aren't used to having to do diaper checks when all their other students are trained and although that is not an excuse as to ignoring your DD's needs....I wonder if that does play a role in it....

Education in my opinion for a child at 3 is NOT important....It sounds more like your DD needs an environment that will meet her needs and her needs are to be changed regularly until she is toilet trained and I think you are doing yourself and your DD a dis-service by ruling out the use of an in-home family provider. In-home family providers can offer your child ALOT of what you are looking for and can be a wonderful experience for your whole family if you do your homework and find a home provider that meets your whole families needs.

Curious though, is the distrust of in home providers based on a personal experience or just the common "junk" and/or stereotyping that gets spread around about in-home providers?

[Unregistered]

She is "on the verge" of being potty trained. Actually, she knows how to use the potty, she is extremely stubborn and does not want to use the potty (I believe) simply because people are telling her that she needs to. She wants to do this on her own accord. That is okay with me, but it has been months now, and she would rather just use the diaper. I have approached the Montessori schoolteacher on the subject of properly cleaning my daughter before, and her response was that she changes her (and a few other kids in the class that are not yet fully potty trained) while they're standing up because she does not have a changing table in the class room. I am certainly not opposed to an in-home day care provider; I think if we took the time to visit a few places and have some conversations and ask questions, I think we could find the right place. My wife, however, is absolutely 100% opposed to it, and thinks that in general that they are not regulated and "anything can happen" and "you don't know who's coming in and out of that person's home" and so on. I get what she's saying. There are a lot of bad people out there, and I definitely do not want my daughter exposed to one of them. I think if it were someone that we knew running a home day care, my wife would go for it. The problem is, we don't know anyone personally that runs an in-home day care.

[Blackcat31]

She is "on the verge" of being potty trained. Actually, she knows how to use the potty, she is extremely stubborn and does not want to use the potty (I believe) simply because people are telling her that she needs to. She wants to do this on her own accord. That is okay with me, but it has been months now, and she would rather just use the diaper. I have approached the Montessori schoolteacher on the subject of properly cleaning my daughter before, and her response was that she changes her (and a few other kids in the class that are not yet fully potty trained) while they're standing up because she does not have a changing table in the class room. I am certainly not opposed to an in-home day care provider; I think if we took the time to visit a few places and have some conversations and ask questions, I think we could find the right place. My wife, however, is absolutely 100% opposed to it, and thinks that in general that they are not regulated and "anything can happen" and "you don't know who's coming in and out of that person's home" and so on. I get what she's saying. There are a lot of bad people out there, and I definitely do not want my daughter exposed to one of them. I think if it were someone that we knew running a home day care, my wife would go for it. The problem is, we don't know anyone personally that runs an in-home day care.

As for your DD not really caring if she is toilet trained or not.... this is a tricky area.... if you miss the window of opportunity, she may resist for several more months, years....but if you simply approach it as the next step in growing up and create a motivator for her to be trained, she might just surprise you and just start wearing underwear and using the bathroom on her own...which would be awesome for her (and you and mom) as well as solve the issue you have going on right now.

I support kids being trained when they show the signs of being ready and able but I also think parents need to give a bit of "pushy" support when they see that opportunity if they truly know their child has the skill set to manage toilet use.

Your wife's feelings about in-home providers are totally understandable and I really don't know a magic potion to convince someone otherwise but I encourage you and your wife to take a look at the licensing requirements in your state for home child cares.

You might be surprises at how regulated some states really are.

Take the changing table for example, in my state if we provide care to a child still in diapers or Pull ups we are REQUIRED to have a sanitary changing area.

My licensor checks this every time she visits. Visits are often unannounced and frequent in some areas.

I am also not allowed to simply have people coming and gong in my home and in my experience most providers don't do that, as it is really disruptive to their day and routines with the kids they have in care.

Some states don't allow family members or friends or neighbors to be on the property while care is being provided unless they have had background checks.

I also think that if you asked co-workers, researched provider records (most are available online) and really interviewed well, you could potentially find an in-home provider that could become "just like family" as that is what a lot of providers that work from home strive for... a family connection so that trust is there as well as a warm and secure relationship with not only the child(ren) in care but the family as a whole.

I also want to mention that if we had a Montessori school here in my state, it would be licensed via DHS/human services and they would require a sanitary changing station if the school enrolled a non-toilet trained child so that part (what your child's teacher said) just isn't sitting right with me.....

What state are you in? Maybe I can point you in the right direction to research the above mentioned things......

[Unregistered]

I live in Michigan. I think technically, the Montessori is not supposed to allow kids to enroll who are not potty trained, because they don't have a changing station. I think that this was done "under-the-table" so to speak in our case. She has two or three other kids there besides my daughter who aren't potty trained. I know that she does get audited by the state and everything, but I'm not sure if the state knew that she had a couple kids there that aren't fully potty trained and that she doesn't have a changing table. I guess it's kind of a gray area. When it comes down to it, she probably shouldn't be doing that, especially if she's not going to properly take care of a child that is not potty trained (i.e. fully cleaning them and promptly cleaning them). She would wait until the end of a lesson to change them, and I think often times they went unclean for long periods of time, which really makes me feel guilty for sending my baby there. In other words, the education took priority over my daughter's comfort, hence the title of the post. I want her to be comfortable, but I want her to be engaged also, not just thrown into a room with a bunch of toys for 8 hours (daycare centers). We pulled her out of the Montessori as of today, after she came home with the rash last night.

[childcaremom]

I know you said your wife was against home care, but have you toured any? Everyone offers something different and many offer educational activities as well as free play. I'm sure someone out there would offer something that you are looking for: a combo of care and attention and educational stimulation.

Otherwise, I would look at other centres.

Good luck!

[Blackcat31]

Here are the licensing requirements for Michigan.

I would research the links and see what the rules are for in-home daycare is and perhaps your wife would feel better about maybe using an in-home care.

https://www.daycare.com/michigan/

[Josiegirl]

I can understand you and your wife wanting the perfect place for your dd but in searching for that place, she hasn't been able to form any strong bonds with other adult caregivers who she's spending a great deal of her awake time with. That, in itself, might be contributing to her potty training stubbornness; it's one thing she can maintain control over KWIM?

How would your dw feel about taking her maternity leave early, training your dd herself, then reintroducing dd to a Montessori program after? OR what if you met with some dcproviders just to see what's out there?? Never hurts to just look, right? There must be friends, family members, co-workers who can give you names? Word of mouth is the best way(IMO) to find someone.

Good luck and hope you can come to an agreement, for the sake of your dd.

[Unregistered]

Thank you for the feedback everyone!

[laundrymom]

No disrespect meant by this, but why is it okay for your fancy Montessori school to go against the regs that your wife believes aren't in place for home providers?
That may have come out odd. Let me try again.
Why would your wife be okay with the M school breaking rules if she was so worried the home provider would not be regulated?
Home providers are no less qualified than the teachers at some fancy school.

I can assure you that children learn best through engaging play. They learn all the things you mentioned in your post through routine play. What makes the school so superior to a home provider?
And how do you know your little lovely won't learn those things at a home?
I honestly think you need to do more research. There is no one right answer for childcare and I fully support people's choice of center over home care. And, a Montessori school is a center. They just have a slightly different learning style.

I take offense at the ideas your wife has about home providers. I know I'm not alone. It kind of hurts that she would judge us without knowing us.
I urge you to explore every avenue of care and keep an open mind.
There are many wonderful and enriching styles of childcare and to ask If education or comfort is more important??
I think you're limiting yourself. Why can't it be both? Why should you have to choose?

[butterfly]

No disrespect meant by this, but why is it okay for your fancy Montessori school to go against the regs that your wife believes aren't in place for home providers?
That may have come out odd. Let me try again.
Why would your wife be okay with the M school breaking rules if she was so worried the home provider would not be regulated?
Home providers are no less qualified than the teachers at some fancy school.

I can assure you that children learn best through engaging play. They learn all the things you mentioned in your post through routine play. What makes the school so superior to a home provider?
And how do you know your little lovely won't learn those things at a home?
I honestly think you need to do more research. There is no one right answer for childcare and I fully support people's choice of center over home care. And, a Montessori school is a center. They just have a slightly different learning style.

I take offense at the ideas your wife has about home providers. I know I'm not alone. It kind of hurts that she would judge us without knowing us.
I urge you to explore every avenue of care and keep an open mind.
There are many wonderful and enriching styles of childcare and to ask If education or comfort is more important??
I think you're limiting yourself. Why can't it be both? Why should you have to choose?

[Unregistered]

I think you should pull your kids out of daycare, let your wife stay home with the kids full time, and you get a second job if you need to cover the expenses for the next 6 years until the youngest is in school full time then your wife can go back to work.
Just my opinion

[MarinaVanessa]

Unless you are in a small town with no real choice in centers I fond it shocking that you cannot find a daycare center more suited for your needs (learning environment, changes diapers, has a curriculum etc). Daycare centers and family child care homes (care in the providers home) alike all come in different styles and perks and no two are alike. They all provide such a wide array of services that it seems to me that you could still continue to look for a better fit for your family.

I would definitely pull your daughter out if something as major such as sanitation and hygiene is a problem to the extent that your child is coming home with rashes. That is simply unacceptable!! Not to mention neglectful.

Could it be that you have focused on a specific type of care and that is why you haven't been finding a good fit? As in, are you specifically looking at only Montessori style centers? I live in a medium sized city of about 100,000 people and we easily have more than 60 centers of all types (faith based, preschool, learning centers, play based, Montessori etc.) and that's JUST centers ... there are HUNDREDS of family child care providers all with their own programs (play based, preschool curriculum, structured, unstructured etc.). I'm sure you could find a center that both you and your wife find has a goodness of fit. The trouble is in finding the right one to fit your needs.

[Thriftylady]

As far as education, at her young age, play IS education. Wherever you send her should have plenty of things to play with that are age appropriate. I recently read a study where kids who were in an educational program started kindy ahead of the game, but by fourth grade had lost all gains above the other students. I guess I am just saying I wouldn't get all caught up on the "education" thing. A good program will provide that even just through play. Horror stories happen in centers as well as in homes, we have had several in the news in our area lately. Ask friends and family who they love and trust. Go to interviews, trust your gut. The center vs. home thing is moot. Regardless of the type of facility, the caregivers are human, and as such will behave pretty much the same in either place. You will have great caregivers and not so great ones. Keep in mind that many centers pay their people min. wage, those centers may not have happy caregivers. Other centers are awesome, as are some homes.