Bad Situation with Home DCP

[workingfromhomemom]

I'm sorry this is so long.

BG- My 4 year dd goes to a home day care provider. She has been there for 6 months (my 4 year old niece also goes there). I have been thrilled with their care. They love her, take great care of her, and go above and beyond what would be expected of them. This is my first issue with them. It is a husband and wife that run the DC.

Incident- On Monday I went to pick dd up. I walked in and the wife- we will call her Gladys- was talking to another parent. It looked like a very personal, intense convo so I said little to her. The child of the mother she was talking to said "Hey, your dd is out back, I will go get her." When my dd came in she was upset. Not crying but visibly upset. I asked her what was wrong and she told me "Ryan (Gladys's 16 year old son) was tickling me too much and I didn't like it". I didn't think too much of it. I did notice that the husband- we will call him Dennis- was sitting at the computer at the dining room table. Meaning that neither one of them were outside with my dd. Then my niece comes in crying and said the same thing. Ryan was tickling her too much and chasing her too much and she didn't like it. Gladys finally notices my niece crying and said "Oh no, she is upset because she was asked to come inside with everyone else but she stayed out there". I realized then the girls were both left outside either alone or with a 16 year old boy. Okay, whatever. I left.

I decided I needed to talk to her about it. Let me make it very clear that I NEVER thought that something of a sexual nature went on with my dd and Ryan. I really did think he was tickling her and she had had enough. But I wanted to address the issue. I also needed to bring up my daughter being left out back. I thought long and hard on how I would talk to her about it. I knew she was going to be defensive.

The next time I brought my dd was Wednesday. I picked her up Wed. evening and asked to talk to Gladys in private. I told her what happened and that I was uncomfortable and she immediately got VERY defensive. She kept saying "Oh no, he NEVER touches the kids" I kept telling her over and over that I don't think anything weird happened but she wouldn't hear it. She stormed into the house and said let's go talk to the girls. When she asked the girls what happened the girls repeated the SAME thing. Ryan was tickling me and chasing me too much and they didn't like it. She completely ignored what they said and she started reprimanding my niece!! She told her that she was in trouble for staying outside when she was asked to come in. Meanwhile I was thinking to myself, hey, isn't it THEIR responsibility to know where the kids are at all times? She also told the girls that THEY were the ones that climb on Ryan. She made it seem like everything was their fault. So at this point I am getting upset at how she is handling this. I kept telling her to calm down, that it didn't need to be this way. And she basically blew up and told me, in front of my DD and niece, that maybe I better just find someone else to take care of my child. I was FLOORED. I just shook my head, told her she was ruining a good thing, and left.

I am so shocked that she handled it this way. She was SO incredibly unprofessional. I can't believe she said all of that stuff in front of my dd.
I tried to call them on Thursday night. I left a message but haven't received a call back. I never will. I wrote a registered letter stating what I thought they did wrong and telling them my daughter won't be coming back.

Oh, one last thing. When my brother came and picked up my niece Gladys told him what happened. Of course her version is much different than mine. But she did call her son in and ask if he tickled the girls. Guess what??? He said yes!! My brother said she was totally shocked.

I am wondering if I should report this incident. This is a woman whom I felt very close to. We had many long conversations about family, parenting, and religion. I know she cared about my dd but she really screwed up. I am already looking for a preschool. I just wonder if this is something that warrants a complaint. I wonder if I would want to know that something like this happened if I went to look at them as a DCP. Then again, I'm not sure how this process works.

I never thought I would be a person that would write this long of a post. I tried to be succinct.

Please tell me your opinion.

[Michael]

Welcome to the Daycare.com Forum.

[sharlan]

I am sorry that you are going through this.

I really don't see what good would come from reporting this. There are so many wonderful home daycares out there, look for another one.

[QualiTcare]

i don't see that this is really anything worthy of reporting either. i'm sure it's very upsetting to you, as it should be, but in my opinion not worthy of reporting.

i can only speculate, but maybe she responded the way she did because she HAD told the kids to come in repeatedly and they didn't listen. for the record, i'm not a daycare provider. i have been in the past, but not now. just to give an example - my daughter and son were outside swimming today and my husband was outside with them. my daughter comes in crying hysterically and saying she got in trouble by daddy for NO REASON! she said she was licking her lips and he thought she was sticking her tongue out blah blah. i tell her, "stay inside! you need to cool off, rest, etc. don't go back out there!" low and behold...she runs out the door. 30 minutes later, she's back and crying like she's been beaten. "daddy broke my toy!! on purpose!!" i go investigate. yup, true story. daughter and son were fighting over a toy, not sharing, etc. he solved the problem - toy gone. i tell her again, "stay inside. take a break from each other, etc." what do you think she does? she goes back out for more.

now, imagine this scenario. two little kids are being chased and tickled by a big, bad BOY! they run, scream, and say they don't like it. the grown up tells them to come INSIDE! they don't. they stay outside where the big, bad boy who has been "bothering them" is located. the same thing happens AGAIN, but this time they don't only whine about being bothered by the boy - their parent confronts the grown up in charge about why it was "allowed" to happen.

if i had to guess, i would say it wasn't THAT big of a deal. it was a four year old's idea of a big deal because a tickling game she was involved in turned into something she didn't like anymore. little girls tend to be dramatic. mine is at least. anyhow, it's unfortunate that it all went down the way it did.

[dEHmom]

I agree with the previous 2 posters. I don't think it sounds like a report is warranted.

HOWEVER, I just want to say, that you did the right thing by speaking with the provider. There were several key points in your post, that needed to be address such as the outside alone with a teenage boy, touching/tickling etc.

Truth is, if some teenage boy was tickling my child, I would automatically investigate further to make sure it was ONLY tickling and nothing of an inappropriate nature.

There is no reason her son should've been alone with 2 little girls. And if they didn't want to come in, then the provider(s) should have remained with them or told them to come in with no ifs ands or buts.

[snbauser]

If you suspect something else was going on, report it. I don't know what the laws are in your area but here leaving the 2 4 year olds outside unsupervised would be a violation here. Children must be supervised at all times. A 16 year old boy who can't take a 4 year old crying/upset as an indicator that they do not want to play anymore would concern me as well as a 16 year old boy outside alone with 2 4 year old girls with his hands on them.

[Sunshine44]

I would report it because she left your kids outside alone...with her 16 yr old son. Why is she saying "they didn't listen when asked to come inside"?? I have children here all day and if one of them didn't listen, they'd be made to come inside. I cannot just leave a child outside because they don't want to come in...no matter if someone else (older child/neighbor) was out there with them.

[Cat Herder]

I would report it because she left your kids outside alone...with her 16 yr old son.

In California a Daycare Assistant can be 14.

There is nothing really reportable, sounds like a personality conflict and most likely was more about HOW the things were said between two grown women than how they actually happened between the children.

"Mama Bear" syndrome. I have had the impulse a few times, too, and had to stop the "defense gene" from kicking in to hear the truth.

I am very disappointed for your DD though. Sounds like she was very happy there. It was most likely kids playing and some over doing by a goofy 16 year old boy (I have two teen sons) who does not realize his own strength.

I remember my 15 year old male cousin busting my lip accidentally playing touch football at 5 years old. It does happen. He is still my favorite and unfortunately still likes to put me in a headlock at the dinner table during family gatherings. I am 40, ugh BOYS.

[daycare]

In California a Daycare Assistant can be 14.

There is nothing really reportable, sounds like a personality conflict and most likely was more about HOW the things were said between two grown women than how they actually happened between the children.

"Mama Bear" syndrome. I have had the impulse a few times, too, and had to stop the "defense gene" from kicking in to hear the truth.

I am very disappointed for your DD though. Sounds like she was very happy there. It was most likely kids playing and some over doing by a goofy 16 year old boy (I have two teen sons) who does not realize his own strength.

I remember my 15 year old male cousin busting my lip accidentally playing touch football at 5 years old. It does happen. He is still my favorite and unfortunately still likes to put me in a headlock at the dinner table during family gatherings. I am 40, ugh BOYS.

catherder is correct. if the 16 year old was outside withe the girls, then there is no violation. I am in your area northern cali.

My son is the same age and he knows that he is NEVER to touch the DCKs, I dont even allow for him to pick them up to help them get on a bike, nothing ever.

Also I agree with whoever said girls are dramatic. i once had a dck tell their parent that my little 3 year old son hit her with a baseball bat. Yes she got hit with a foam baseball bat, but it waas becuase she was refusing to wait her turn and she tried to take the bat away when my son was up to bat, he was in full motion of swinging when she tried to walk up and grab it. Yes, she was hurt a tiny bit, but I told her a million times it was not her turn, she needed to wait.

The parents came in and accused my son of being a horrible child, telling me how did I let that happen and why are there bats in DC. They were ready to pull their child out right on the spot. BTW no marks of anykind where left at all, only a 3year old girls words. When I told them, that I was playing catcher and told them what happened, they still seemed to not believe me. I on the other hand can only tell them my words and if they don't believe me, then they would have to find another DCP. Nothing else ever came of this, child is still here, but my point is, little girls are dramatic. Not only taht, I know it is hard to see any situation from a child's perspective and make sense of it. As the mother, of course you are going to protect your child by finding out what happened.
I am sorry that this happend to you, hopefully things will simmer down and you will find another happy place for your child.
Some people are very sensitive about things and dont know how to handel getting confronted.
I don't really think that there is anyting to report here. ****s taht the DCP over reacted.

[youretooloud]

OP.. You did nothing wrong. You are not expected to ignore your child's complaints so you don't hurt the provider's feelings.

The provider blew it all out of proportion, and she never needed to carry on like that. A simple "Well, I don't think he would, but I'll talk to him today" would have made you feel better. Right?

The kids weren't left outside alone.. they were with a 16 yr old. He's old enough to drive, and babysit, and if you trusted him before this, there's no problem with him watching them in the yard.

The fact that both kids were crying, and she seemed to be covering up the reason is really what's bothering you... she behaved as if she got caught doing something she shouldn't be doing, and your mommy alarm went off. I doubt the teenager did anything wrong, but the mom's behavior was very odd....especially the next day. Why would she flip out like that?

I don't see any reason to report this, but I am glad you removed your child. I think her behavior was enough reason for your brother to remove his child too. I wouldn't trust her at all.

[workingfromhomemom]

Well, to be honest I'm not sure if the girls were left alone outside or with the 16 year old. I know my niece had to have been left alone because the boy came inside and she was still out there. I didn't know she was out there- I thought she had been picked up. I think the wife thought the husband was watching them (that is what she said) and the husband thought the wife was watching them. They were both busy doing other things- not okay. I don't know of the laws but I do know she told me only her or her husband were allowed to care for the kids.

I did do a little investigation with my 4 year old. I was very non leading and basically went all over her body (including head, toes, etc) and asked if she was tickled there. She only said yes to her tummy. Here is the thing- I DID NOT think it was that big of a deal. If I thought for a second that something funky had gone on I NEVER would have brought her back on Wed. I thought I would just bring it up as a concern. Like normal people do when they need to work something out.

It was her response that worried me most. Why was she that defensive? Why didn't she listen to what the girls BOTH told her and acknowledge it? I kept repeating I didnt think anything weird had happened but she wouldn't hear it. She was in freak out mode.

Also, she swore up and down that her son never, ever touch the kids for any reason. She was floored when the son admitted to tickling them (this happened in front of my brother).

It just really is a shame how the whole thing happened. She lost two great clients. I am excited to look at preschools for my daughter. I think she is going to love it.

[wdmmom]

Will your niece continue receiving childcare there?

I might contact the state's licensing agency and ask them if any of the things you question are enough to warrant a complaint and inspection.

Sounds to me like this husband/wife team need to be providing childcare, not be playing on the computer while their son is outside entertaining the children. My guess is: if the state does make a visit, the only thing they might be sited on is the 16 year old child doesn't have the paperwork or background check to consider him an assistant.

[dEHmom]

even if they were being watched by a teenager who is old enough to legally watch the girls, he is not on the contract as a caregiver. Unless the parents had given permission to leave this boy in charge for any amount of time EVER then he had no right watching them.

On another note, if they both assumed the other was watching, then they do not have a good system.

IMO, unless one let the other know they weren't watching, then they BOTH should have been watching the children.

Unfortunately, the DCprovider has gone a little over board, and I wish you luck with you daycare search. Everything happens for a reason. Just remember that.

[daycare]

in cali you dont have to have any form of background check of any kind if you hire your own child as long as they are under the age of 18. however, I do agree that the DCP should have okayed and listed her child as a caretaker if she intended to have her child help out. I think its too risky to have your own child working with you. As a mother, you are always going to stand behind your child, even when you know they are wrong.

[Unregistered]

report her

If I were in your shoes, I would report her. Licensing will decide if it's warranted or not and there's no reprecusion on you. You can call anonymously as well - just ask your local branch how to report anonymously. She blamed the kids for being unattended outside which is just plain wrong. What would happen if those kids got seriously injured because she wasn't watching? Blame them the same? And she can't eat crow even after the 16 yr old boy admitted to tickling them? I can't imagine why she thought it was ok for her to walk away from the kids in the first place - her judgment is way off. She is responsible for those kids unless licensing rules state otherwise about that 16 year old being an official assistant (which I would think would have to be recorded officially so the State knew). I think another big issue here is how she responded to you when you brought a concern up to her - I've dealt with a provider like this before and they just can't ever admit when they're wrong. She was also just plain mean and defensive to you. You have every right to question your provider over anything without them being defensive over it and without having to worry that they're going to scream at you for it. I don't do "defensive" providers. You're better off somewhere else and I applaude you for taking the kids somewhere else immediately. I have a lot of regrets as a parent for not reporting things that I should have that I've witnessed and heard about. For example, my previous provider denied rumors that she was improperly caring for infants and that she was regularly way out of ratio. I didn't report her because it didn't affect my child but later learned that she was cited several times for both. I was glad to see that justice was done, but still wish I'd said something. Too many times, parents just don't want to get involved or are too afraid to say something. Please stand up for your kids and report her. As a parent, it's your responsibility to defend them. If she left kids outside alone once, she'll do it again or probably has been doing it regularly.