OT...sort of...Legal advise

[mrsnj]

I am a girl scout leader too and had an issue of which I cannot seem to get girl scouts to seek legal advise and return to me. Now as a daycare provider I am pretty sure I know the answer but wanted to see if anyone on here would be better able to answer......

I had a pick up from an event at my house. Parents came here after to get their children. My one girl's parents are divorced. Nasty divorce. Mom and dad did not discuss the times for this event and dad was picking up for the day and he had to wrong time. Make a long story short, he arrived angry. Yelled at the scout and told her to get in the car. The car was full. They had the backseat full of her brothers and the front was the dads girl friend holding the scouts baby brother. All jammed in a car not big enough. He opens the hatch and screams at the scout to get in. She climbs in the back, he slams the lid shut and he speeds out easily doing 70 in a development. Like the child is in the trunk of the car! Then he proceeds to text me while driving to complain to ME about how he wasn't told the correct time which had nothing to do with me since I didn't even know dad was coming. Either way he was still texting and driving with unsecured children in the car. I have myself, my coleader and several scouts and parents witness this.

I filed an incident report with my higher ups for girl scouts and requested legal council. They just wrote back and told me it wasn't their issues and for me to stay out of it. However, I know this report is going to be used in a lawsuit for custody between the father and mother and the lawyer WILL be calling for it. I did my end. What I NEED to know , however, is if I am liable for allowing that child to leave in the trunk! This is an ongoing problem with the mother and I know it is likely to happen again with me. I am the first to witness it. I asked for legal council from girl scouts and they push it way side and ignore me. It wasn't until I mentioned the custody lawsuit that council (my higher ups) final got back to me Then tells me its not my issue. Well it IS my issue if I am liable!

I know from experience with a drunk dad that I am liable for allowing a child to leave my care into an unsafe situation. Now at that time it was drinking. But I am pretty sure this falls under it too! I need to know if girl scouts will back me if I refuse pick up? They tell me to stay out of it which doesn't help me AT ALL. That is wonderful that THEY think I can simply shut the door and say whatever. But in the end LEGALLY would I be liable for allowing it to happen? They won't answer me. As a DC provider I am pretty sure I can refuse that pick up. Does anyone know if I would be held liable in this situation? If this were a DC provider....would you be legal able to 'let it go'?

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I am a girl scout leader too and had an issue of which I cannot seem to get girl scouts to seek legal advise and return to me. Now as a daycare provider I am pretty sure I know the answer but wanted to see if anyone on here would be better able to answer......

I had a pick up from an event at my house. Parents came here after to get their children. My one girl's parents are divorced. Nasty divorce. Mom and dad did not discuss the times for this event and dad was picking up for the day and he had to wrong time. Make a long story short, he arrived angry. Yelled at the scout and told her to get in the car. The car was full. They had the backseat full of her brothers and the front was the dads girl friend holding the scouts baby brother. All jammed in a car not big enough. He opens the hatch and screams at the scout to get in. She climbs in the back, he slams the lid shut and he speeds out easily doing 70 in a development. Like the child is in the trunk of the car! Then he proceeds to text me while driving to complain to ME about how he wasn't told the correct time which had nothing to do with me since I didn't even know dad was coming. Either way he was still texting and driving with unsecured children in the car. I have myself, my coleader and several scouts and parents witness this.

I filed an incident report with my higher ups for girl scouts and requested legal council. They just wrote back and told me it wasn't their issues and for me to stay out of it. However, I know this report is going to be used in a lawsuit for custody between the father and mother and the lawyer WILL be calling for it. I did my end. What I NEED to know , however, is if I am liable for allowing that child to leave in the trunk! This is an ongoing problem with the mother and I know it is likely to happen again with me. I am the first to witness it. I asked for legal council from girl scouts and they push it way side and ignore me. It wasn't until I mentioned the custody lawsuit that council (my higher ups) final got back to me Then tells me its not my issue. Well it IS my issue if I am liable!

I know from experience with a drunk dad that I am liable for allowing a child to leave my care into an unsafe situation. Now at that time it was drinking. But I am pretty sure this falls under it too! I need to know if girl scouts will back me if I refuse pick up? They tell me to stay out of it which doesn't help me AT ALL. That is wonderful that THEY think I can simply shut the door and say whatever. But in the end LEGALLY would I be liable for allowing it to happen? They won't answer me. As a DC provider I am pretty sure I can refuse that pick up. Does anyone know if I would be held liable in this situation? If this were a DC provider....would you be legal able to 'let it go'?

Since nothing happened (no accident), there is nothing to be held liable for as far as i can see. We are mandated reporters, and you did report it, however, in the future, i would call police so he gets pulled over. This way, you reported it and it becomes the polices problem. I know that unless there are court papers, we cant deny a parent their child, but if they are not following the law (seatbelts, possibly drinking, too many in one car, ect), we can and should call the police.

[mrsnj]

See that I know is incorrect. When I had the drunk parent come and pick up I called my lawyer. He said I am within my rights to deny pick up based on unsafe conditions. At that time I was to call the police and report but could not release the child at that time. If the father were to come and pick up drunk and get into an accident I would held liable for allowing the child to go in an unsafe situation. It made for a lovely chat with mom.

I would assume this to be the same situation. An unsafe environment. But since it isn't drinking....would it be the same?

[Pestle]

The difference I see between a drunk parent and a parent who sticks their kid in the trunk is this:

In the first instance, the parent showed up at the door and you knew immediately that the parent was not fit to drive.

In the second instance, you had no idea that the parent was going to put the child into the car without a secure, belted seat. You didn't find that out until the parent had the child in his custody, was away from you, and at the car.

I don't know legally how that all plays out, but the two incidents don't seem the same to me at all. It's not as if the dad showed up, announced that he didn't have a seat available, and then took the child.

[Blackcat31]

I am confused.

Why would anyone not call the police if they witnessed a child being closed into the trunk of a car and the driver driving off?!?!?

I don't care if you are a child care provider, a Girl Scout leader or a parent of a child that is friends with this child.

I would have called 911 IMMEDIATELY!!!

....and let the police deal with this.

SMH.

[mrsnj]

The difference I see between a drunk parent and a parent who sticks their kid in the trunk is this:

In the first instance, the parent showed up at the door and you knew immediately that the parent was not fit to drive.

In the second instance, you had no idea that the parent was going to put the child into the car without a secure, belted seat. You didn't find that out until the parent had the child in his custody, was away from you, and at the car.

I don't know legally how that all plays out, but the two incidents don't seem the same to me at all. It's not as if the dad showed up, announced that he didn't have a seat available, and then took the child.

Ok. That might be the case. And what I needed to know. So then should it happen, simply let go and report.

[mrsnj]

I am confused.

Why would anyone not call the police if they witnessed a child being closed into the trunk of a car and the driver driving off?!?!?

I don't care if you are a child care provider, a Girl Scout leader or a parent of a child that is friends with this child.

I would have called 911 IMMEDIATELY!!!

....and let the police deal with this.

SMH.

Ah blackcat you don't need to shake too hard. I contacted the mother immediately and she handled it. Then I contacted my supervisor and requested advise and filed a report. So. It was covered. Didn't exactly answer my question though.

[daycarediva]

I am confused.

Why would anyone not call the police if they witnessed a child being closed into the trunk of a car and the driver driving off?!?!?

I don't care if you are a child care provider, a Girl Scout leader or a parent of a child that is friends with this child.

I would have called 911 IMMEDIATELY!!!

....and let the police deal with this.

SMH.

I would have been on the phone with 911 to give them the make/model/color and plate number the second the kid got in the trunk.

Once a parent takes a child from my home/property, I am no longer liable. I also was told by an attorney I cannot LEGALLY withhold a child from a parent who is intoxicated. I can delay and call 911.

[mrsnj]

Thanks. Ok... then thats what I will do then. Mom can deal. Kinda relieved cause that man is a nut case. At least I won't have to deal with him. Normally never see him. Will be happy when it goes back to that. I don't need the drama

[Blackcat31]

Ah blackcat you don't need to shake too hard. I contacted the mother immediately and she handled it. Then I contacted my supervisor and requested advise and filed a report. So. It was covered. Didn't exactly answer my question though.

Sorry you don't like my reply but there is no need to get sarcastic about it....

If you truly need an answer to the question; here's mine:
Next time you see something like that happen call 911.

Poor child.... too many adults worried about legal issues to be concerned for her immediate welfare. :confused:

[Ariana]

I would call police for the child being put in the trunk, baby bro not being secured in the front on a lap and the drunk driver (in the previous incident). No harm ever comes from calling the police ever! At least if you were to be charged with liable you didn't just stand there and do nothing, you called the police, which is literally the only thing you could have done in this situation (but failed to do unfortunately.)

Any time there is doubt please call the police!

[Ariana]

I would have been on the phone with 911 to give them the make/model/color and plate number the second the kid got in the trunk.

Once a parent takes a child from my home/property, I am no longer liable. I also was told by an attorney I cannot LEGALLY withhold a child from a parent who is intoxicated. I can delay and call 911.

This is exactly what happened when I worked at a centre. A drunk parent came and staff called 911, then pretended they could not find the child, to delay, until the police showed up.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

See that I know is incorrect. When I had the drunk parent come and pick up I called my lawyer. He said I am within my rights to deny pick up based on unsafe conditions. At that time I was to call the police and report but could not release the child at that time. If the father were to come and pick up drunk and get into an accident I would held liable for allowing the child to go in an unsafe situation. It made for a lovely chat with mom.

I would assume this to be the same situation. An unsafe environment. But since it isn't drinking....would it be the same?

I would have been on the phone with 911 to give them the make/model/color and plate number the second the kid got in the trunk.

Once a parent takes a child from my home/property, I am no longer liable. I also was told by an attorney I cannot LEGALLY withhold a child from a parent who is intoxicated. I can delay and call 911.

This is my understanding and technically what your lawyer told you as well. You cannot withhold a child from their parent, but you can call the police to mediate the hand off of child to the parent. The parent has every right to grab their kid and leave anyway, in which case, the police will have to pull them over and handle it. If you do not call the police, then you could be held liable, as you are a mandated reporter. Calling the police FIRST (not the mother, your licensor, or whoever) is the BEST route to go when you see these things happening. Some parents will listen if you try to talk to them about it, but if the dad was angry and yelling, the police is the way to go. And you mentioned that it will happen again, so now you have the ultimate upper hand, because you do not need to accept kids into care when you know these things may happen again. They are no longer welcome in your home. period. We deal with liability every day from parents who trying really hard to be good parents. I WILL NOT work with a parent who puts me in that position to worry about the safety of their child after they leave my front steps.

[Laurie]

I'm 1000% on board with BC!! I also don't think her reply was out of line. You asked for our help and answers.

You're a mandatory reporter and should have called 911 and child services in your area! You are responsible for all children leaving your home safely.

Here in CA, I've been told NOT to allow them into the car and to call the police immediately!!

[LysesKids]

I am a girl scout leader too and had an issue of which I cannot seem to get girl scouts to seek legal advise and return to me. Now as a daycare provider I am pretty sure I know the answer but wanted to see if anyone on here would be better able to answer......

I had a pick up from an event at my house. Parents came here after to get their children. My one girl's parents are divorced. Nasty divorce. Mom and dad did not discuss the times for this event and dad was picking up for the day and he had to wrong time. Make a long story short, he arrived angry. Yelled at the scout and told her to get in the car. The car was full. They had the backseat full of her brothers and the front was the dads girl friend holding the scouts baby brother. All jammed in a car not big enough. He opens the hatch and screams at the scout to get in. She climbs in the back, he slams the lid shut and he speeds out easily doing 70 in a development. Like the child is in the trunk of the car! Then he proceeds to text me while driving to complain to ME about how he wasn't told the correct time which had nothing to do with me since I didn't even know dad was coming. Either way he was still texting and driving with unsecured children in the car. I have myself, my coleader and several scouts and parents witness this.

I filed an incident report with my higher ups for girl scouts and requested legal council. They just wrote back and told me it wasn't their issues and for me to stay out of it. However, I know this report is going to be used in a lawsuit for custody between the father and mother and the lawyer WILL be calling for it. I did my end. What I NEED to know , however, is if I am liable for allowing that child to leave in the trunk! This is an ongoing problem with the mother and I know it is likely to happen again with me. I am the first to witness it. I asked for legal council from girl scouts and they push it way side and ignore me. It wasn't until I mentioned the custody lawsuit that council (my higher ups) final got back to me Then tells me its not my issue. Well it IS my issue if I am liable!

I know from experience with a drunk dad that I am liable for allowing a child to leave my care into an unsafe situation. Now at that time it was drinking. But I am pretty sure this falls under it too! I need to know if girl scouts will back me if I refuse pick up? They tell me to stay out of it which doesn't help me AT ALL. That is wonderful that THEY think I can simply shut the door and say whatever. But in the end LEGALLY would I be liable for allowing it to happen? They won't answer me. As a DC provider I am pretty sure I can refuse that pick up. Does anyone know if I would be held liable in this situation? If this were a DC provider....would you be legal able to 'let it go'?

In my state everyone is a Mandated reporter, so daycare, scouts or whatever, I would have been on the phone to 911 & CPS stating what just happened and let them deal with it. I'm not losing my business over a "what if" or "this maybe a" type situation. What if the parent had been in an accident on the way home due to his temper? As far as I'm concerned, You saw it, it should have been reported right then