Losing Toys During Timeout?

[mamamanda]

I don't find timeout terribly effective and try to limit its use, but with my dcg that hits so often I have a rule, "If you hit, you sit." Nothing else seems to phase her. However, she ends up sitting quite a bit as this happens frequently throughout our day (it really is so much better than it was so I'm hopeful.)
Today she had a basket full of hot wheel cars. The 17mo reached toward the basket to take one and she responded by hitting him in the head with one of the cars. I immediately removed her from the group and sat her down. I'm trying to teach him not to just take things from someone else as well, but he is just learning and is starting to talk, but not well enough to ask "May I play?" And her response to everything that happens in a day is to hit/shove/lay on top of, etc.
As she was sitting 2 other kids walked by with a couple of the cars from her basket. She broke into hysterical crying b/c they took her cars.
If you have to temporarily remove a child from the group do you make them give up the toy they were playing with? I typically allow the kids to keep whatever toy they are playing with until they are finished with it, but I feel this is a natural consequence of choosing to hit. You lose the toy and some of your play time. However, I'm just second guessing myself this morning. I have so much struggle with this little lady that I sometimes find myself taking a firmer approach with her than the other b/c its an all day battle with her. If I give her an inch she takes a mile, but at the same time I have to remind myself she just turned two. Am I being unfair to let the others play with it once she's in timeout, or is this a reasonable expectation?

[Kimskiddos]

Here they would loose what they were playing with due to timeout.

Firstly because she hit with that toy, secondly the toys didn't go to time out, she did. So they are still there to be played with by others. Her screaming about it would only increase the length of time out.

I also wouldn't allow her to "horde" toys. I've always had a toy hordered or two and just, NO. If the kid really wants a bucket full of cars, here they are allowed 5. We discuss and count out the 5 they can keep in the bucket and the rest are to be shared.

[ChelseaB]

Personally, I don't allow children to take toys to time out...in general, time out consists of sitting near me without toys so that you may have quiet time to consider better actions. If you've abused a toy privilege so to speak, you lose that privilege. Thus, if you hit someone (especially with or over a toy), you lose that toy. I try to explain that we may not play with toys a certain way, especially if it hurts our friends.

In short, I agree with what you're doing. She's lost her toy privileges for the moment, so it would be okay for the other kids to play with them. But I suppose what you could do to reassure her is explaining why she lost the toy but also giving solutions about how she can earn it back. Apologizing for hurting other DCK, asking nicely if she can play with said child and toy again, and demonstrating the right way to do that. Not to mention, being a positive role model for the child who is learning the proper way to interact and play with other kids rather than simply taking.

[Ariana]

I don't use timeouts but when I did they absolutely forfeited their right to play with that toy. It sounds to me that this behavior needs to be nipped in the bud and you need to be a bit more stern in dealing with the behavior. How old is she? Perhaps an extension of the timeout could be she forfeits the toy for the rest of the morning...something that makes the consequence a little more uncomfortable for her. Explain to her why as well as having time to model the way to use words to settle conflicts instead of hitting.

[Thriftylady]

No toys in time out. I have taken a toy that was being fought over and put it into time out.

[Snowmom]

I forbid them playing with the toy again.
They didn't know how to play nice with it, so until they show me that they can play nice, they lose the privilege.

[mamamanda]

Thank you all for the reassurance. I didn't feel that they were fighting over the toys or I would have removed them from both of them. She had all of the cars in one basket and I think the 17mo just wanted to play with her and didn't know how to verbally ask. I have started being very firm with her, more consequences, etc. since this is an ongoing issue, and I think that's why I worry I'm being unfair. I tend to be much more stern with her than with the others only b/c I am trying to nip this aggression in the bud. I want to be sure I'm being kind and modeling appropriate behavior, but still being firm.

I like the idea of dividing up toys that have many pieces if they're just carrying them around. I also understand that for a very young 2 sometimes dumping, filling, and carrying is just how they play so I'm always trying to find the balance in that. Thank you so much!

[Blackcat31]

I don't and won't divide toys. I think that defeats the purpose of learning to share.

I would have some strict and firm rules in regards to hitting for this DCG.

First offense and she sits. But does not go back to what she was doing. Losing her right to go back and play should be part of it because the part she is failing to learn is that SHE made the choice to hit so therefore the consequences to hitting should be loss of playing whatever she was playing with.

Second and any repeat attempts to hit means she loses her right to play with ANYONE period. She needs to play with boring toys by herself.

If a consequence does not make enough impact to detour the negative behavior then it's not the correct consequence.

Doing time out more than 3 times in one day, day after day means that the consequences are not effective and need to be changed.

[mamamanda]

I don't and won't divide toys. I think that defeats the purpose of learning to share.

I would have some strict and firm rules in regards to hitting for this DCG.

First offense and she sits. But does not go back to what she was doing. Losing her right to go back and play should be part of it because the part she is failing to learn is that SHE made the choice to hit so therefore the consequences to hitting should be loss of playing whatever she was playing with.

Second and any repeat attempts to hit means she loses her right to play with ANYONE period. She needs to play with boring toys by herself.

If a consequence does not make enough impact to detour the negative behavior then it's not the correct consequence.

Doing time out more than 3 times in one day, day after day means that the consequences are not effective and need to be changed.

I'll try this with her. I need a plan of action. I'm just out of ideas. For a very new 2 yo, how long is an appropriate amount of time to have her play by herself after each incident? I mean, she may hit or shove a friend 3 or 4 times in a day but it seems extreme to isolate her all day. At the same time, its not fair to my toddler who gets the brunt of her aggression to get hit each time she comes back to play.

[Blackcat31]

I'll try this with her. I need a plan of action. I'm just out of ideas. For a very new 2 yo, how long is an appropriate amount of time to have her play by herself after each incident? I mean, she may hit or shove a friend 3 or 4 times in a day but it seems extreme to isolate her all day. At the same time, its not fair to my toddler who gets the brunt of her aggression to get hit each time she comes back to play.

Start with small increments of time and increase her alone time if she isn't showing any signs of learning from the experience.

You are right to consider the toddler's right to not be hit/abused/throttled on by an older playmate

I would try this method for a solid month before readdressing the issue again and regrouping.

I like to say first week is introduction/implementing new plan
Second week is following through with plan every time every day
Third week is for DCG to finally "think" about and "feel" the consequence
Fourth week is adding/subtracting things that have worked and not worked. She should be able to understand by the 4th week how miserable it is to play solo and that if she truly wants to be part of "society" (her peers) then she has a responsibility to NOT hit or hurt others.


I know it may seem cruel but you aren't putting her in solitary confinement like a jail sentence you are teaching her PRO-SOCIAL skills (you know, how most of society doesn't like if we just go around slapping people we don't like....) and the BIGGEST lesson she should be learning is you can have fun and you can have everything the other kids in care have WHILE in a group IF you (dcg) can behave properly in that group and if not then you get everything everyone else gets, (lunch, nap, toys) but you get it all alone since others don't want to play with you if you don't play nice.

I hope that makes more sense.

[mamamanda]

Yes that helps. Thank you!