I Will NEVER Understand.....

[Blackcat31]

Personally, I would think absent parents is worse, just because everyone, provider or not, judge other people's behaviors or actions. Maybe the OP was just venting and this forum allows her to speak with others who feel the same (or different) and find some perspective. It is not a bad thing. It is an age old debate and not the first thread on here that I have read about parental involvement. Maybe what is sad is that it is even a "debate" at all. Parental involvement should be a given, imo.

Just to add that I have had so many wonderful parents and I am sure many of us had, but we tend to need to vent about the not so great ones. Or maybe the better way of saying that is , the ones who don't seem to have their priorities in order.

I think you missed my point.

I wasn't actually asking which is worse.

What's not a bad thing?...and what debate are you talking about?

We also have an entire thread devoted to venting.

I think we are on two completely different pages.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I think you missed my point.

I wasn't actually asking which is worse.

What's not a bad thing?...and what debate are you talking about?

We also have an entire thread devoted to venting.

I think we are on two completely different pages.

Sorry, just thought you were asking which was worse between absent parenting or judgemental providers. (and I said absent parents as a response) I thought you meant that these threads are sad, like providers versus parents sort of thing, kwim? And I just was answering by saying that I guess we just need to vent, but I am sure we have all had great parents and not so great parents. The "debate" was really just referring to the age old discussion of parents leaving their kids in daycare whether they need to or not and how that chafes a lot of providers. Some feel that it doesn't matter, they are being paid regardless, and others feel annoyed by it because they think the parents should be with the kids when not working. I am unclear on what point you were making and was just responding, so I will go ahead and shut up now Sorry if I misread your post!

[Blackcat31]

Sorry, just thought you were asking which was worse between absent parenting or judgemental providers. (and I said absent parents as a response) I thought you meant that these threads are sad, like providers versus parents sort of thing, kwim? And I just was answering by saying that I guess we just need to vent, but I am sure we have all had great parents and not so great parents. The "debate" was really just referring to the age old discussion of parents leaving their kids in daycare whether they need to or not and how that chafes a lot of providers. Some feel that it doesn't matter, they are being paid regardless, and others feel annoyed by it because they think the parents should be with the kids when not working. I am unclear on what point you were making and was just responding, so I will go ahead and shut up now Sorry if I misread your post!

No worries...

You are right though, the topic of this thread does make me sad but it also makes me sad that we (general we, as providers) so openly judge parents for how they parent.

I mean neglect is one thing but different parent styles make the world go round and what one kid needs isn't the same as another needs, even in the same family.

Who are we, to say what is and isn't appropriate or enough or quality or not quality? Who are we to set the bar? Or make those guidelines? kwim?

Take me for example... I am pretty well adjusted adult (at least I think I am : and feel as though I turned out okay as far as being a good human being and an honest contributing member of society.

So based on that self assessment, can you tell what type of parents I had or how much time my parents spent or didn't spend with me? Can you tell how much or how little quality time I had with my parents and/or how much time I spent or didn't spend with an alternate/non-parent caregiver?

No, you can't because you haven't walked in MY shoes and you haven't lived my life
....just like I don't walk in my client's shoes and I don't live their lives so I work really hard at saving the judgement because I would not want to be judged on my parenting or on anything I did or didn't do wrong while raising my kids and I think if I were the perfect parent (by who's assessment, I don't know) but if I were the perfect parent, then and only then would I feel justified in judging others for how they parent their child(ren).

It just saddens me when providers, of all people who make a living providing care for other people's kids get all judgmental about the clients they have. There is no other profession in the world that I know of that feels as if they can be so negative about the behavior of their clients.

I also 100% understand the need for venting....(like I said we have a thread devoted entirely to that....two as a matter of fact) so that is what gets my goat, what bothers me is that if you (again, general you) truly do not approve of or like how a parent parents, then stop taking their dollar and refuse to be a part of it.

Being a part of it and then bitching about it is just silly in my opinion.
It is also one of THE biggest reason this profession is rarely, if ever taken seriously.

That was my point.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

No worries...

You are right though, the topic of this thread does make me sad but it also makes me sad that we (general we, as providers) so openly judge parents for how they parent.

I mean neglect is one thing but different parent styles make the world go round and what one kid needs isn't the same as another needs, even in the same family.

Who are we, to say what is and isn't appropriate or enough or quality or not quality? Who are we to set the bar? Or make those guidelines? kwim?

Take me for example... I am pretty well adjusted adult (at least I think I am : and feel as though I turned out okay as far as being a good human being and an honest contributing member of society.

So based on that self assessment, can you tell what type of parents I had or how much time my parents spent or didn't spend with me? Can you tell how much or how little quality time I had with my parents and/or how much time I spent or didn't spend with an alternate/non-parent caregiver?

No, you can't because you haven't walked in MY shoes and you haven't lived my life
....just like I don't walk in my client's shoes and I don't live their lives so I work really hard at saving the judgement because I would not want to be judged on my parenting or on anything I did or didn't do wrong while raising my kids and I think if I were the perfect parent (by who's assessment, I don't know) but if I were the perfect parent, then and only then would I feel justified in judging others for how they parent their child(ren).

It just saddens me when providers, of all people who make a living providing care for other people's kids get all judgmental about the clients they have. There is no other profession in the world that I know of that feels as if they can be so negative about the behavior of their clients.

I also 100% understand the need for venting....(like I said we have a thread devoted entirely to that....two as a matter of fact) so that is what gets my goat, what bothers me is that if you (again, general you) truly do not approve of or like how a parent parents, then stop taking their dollar and refuse to be a part of it.

Being a part of it and then bitching about it is just silly in my opinion.
It is also one of THE biggest reason this profession is rarely, if ever taken seriously.

That was my point.

I totally understand your point now and I agree and also disagree. I worked many jobs and found many places where people complain about the peope they are providing service for. I am a server right now and that is one just right off the bat. We all complain about our jobs and I think that is okay. It doesn't mean we hate our job or even that we think less of those we provide service for. It just means that every now and then we come across a few "bad apples" and we complain and we get over it and we continue providing care for all the others. I think that as we get older or more experienced in this profession, we weed out those who do not mesh well with our service, but it is not fool proof and we can get to the point of just needing to lay it all out (or vent) and that is why I like this forum so much. There are many threads that ask questions, but many that are also just venting about current clients and asking questions they already know the answer to. It is not wonder the vent thread is over 2400 posts so far I think there are many reasons our profession is not taken seriously, but in a social media world of judgement and hate, this forum actually offers me a lot of comfort and it is nice to know that other providers are experiencing the same tings I am

[Blackcat31]

I totally understand your point now and I agree and also disagree. I worked many jobs and found many places where people complain about the peope they are providing service for. I am a server right now and that is one just right off the bat. We all complain about our jobs and I think that is okay. It doesn't mean we hate our job or even that we think less of those we provide service for. It just means that every now and then we come across a few "bad apples" and we complain and we get over it and we continue providing care for all the others. I think that as we get older or more experienced in this profession, we weed out those who do not mesh well with our service, but it is not fool proof and we can get to the point of just needing to lay it all out (or vent) and that is why I like this forum so much. There are many threads that ask questions, but many that are also just venting about current clients and asking questions they already know the answer to. It is not wonder the vent thread is over 2400 posts so far I think there are many reasons our profession is not taken seriously, but in a social media world of judgement and hate, this forum actually offers me a lot of comfort and it is nice to know that other providers are experiencing the same tings I am

But as a server, you aren't directly taking money from that client... (other than a tip)...you are still paid by your employer...

As a self-employed child care provider you have the power to not participate in something you do not agree with or something that goes directly against something you fundamentally believe in.

To me THAT is the difference. If you have the power to change it, change it. As an employee, you don't really have a lot of say in what the patrons of a diner do or don't do in their personal lives.

I think the bottom line is most (not all) providers value the dollar more and rather than value the "ethics" they are preaching about they accept the money and complain. That is what bothers me.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

But as a server, you aren't directly taking money from that client... (other than a tip)...you are still paid by your employer...

As a self-employed child care provider you have the power to not participate in something you do not agree with or something that goes directly against something you fundamentally believe in.

To me THAT is the difference. If you have the power to change it, change it. As an employee, you don't really have a lot of say in what the patrons of a diner do or don't do in their personal lives.

I think the bottom line is most (not all) providers value the dollar more and rather than value the "ethics" they are preaching about they accept the money and complain. That is what bothers me.

I totally agree with the bold above. It is a novel concept, but no matter what job, we all need to complain now and then. As a server, I actually get paid by the customers, not so much by the employer. Server wages average anywhere from 2.13-5.00 an hour, so the actual money made comes from the customer, not the employer. We (servers) always complain about our customers, but we also rave about those who are awesome. Same with daycare. I complain about those who push the limits, but I don't think any are bad parents or even TRYING to be difficult. It is just my perception after doing it for ma y years. If I don't tell them they are bugging me, then it is on me to deal with it or shut up, so to speak. We are on the same page, though. We can all bitch and moan about our situation or do something about it

[Blackcat31]

We can all bitch and moan about our situation or do something about it

That is the root of my issue.

We have a venting thread. I have no problem with vents there. That's what its for....and honestly I don't read that thread very often...

A huge issue I have with people in general is that people like to bitch/complain and whine but there are very few people in this word that will actually do anything to change the situation or themselves.

I guess it's a pet peeve of mine and sometimes a thread/post or comment hits a nerve for me and I comment/reply.

I understand the need to complain/vent and let stress out and I suppose in a way I am doing the same thing by voicing my distaste for some of the things vented about/said.

[Ariana]

The total irony in judging people who judge is simply hilarious ::

Also...

It just saddens me when providers, of all people who make a living providing care for other people's kids get all judgmental about the clients they have. There is no other profession in the world that I know of that feels as if they can be so negative about the behavior of their clients.

Seriously? I know a few lawyers, police officers, social workers, teachers and damn there are a LOT of complainers. My mother is a therapist and in her office there was a "judgement free zone" room where they were allowed to vent, complain and judge clients with total anonymity because it helped them process emotions about certain high stress situations. The only person I vent to is my husband and that's it. To maintain a sense of professionalism it's what I have to do. This is why this forum is so valuable.

Anyway I do understand how you feel BlackCat but I think most of us are just looking for support and empathy, something that is severely lacking. We don't get much of that in the venting thread. It's pretty much a dead zone. I have tried using it a few times.....

[mia]

I have parents who will bring their kids in a snow storm...blizzard...hurricane....etc. I will text and tell them I have no electric and still I know who will be knocking on my door. I joke not. One dad lives down the street. We will have a state of emergency and I will have not one child here. But I can look out my window and there will be dad trudging on foot through wind, sleet, hail, rain, snow to drop off little pumpkin. Mom and dad will be off and going now where too. Like serious? Its THAT important to bring the child here all alone while you trudge back home for the day? Takes "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night...." to a whole new meaning :::::: I KNOW who will be coming during these times and who will not. Like ol faithful.

I agree. I just started closing. I don't mind staying open for those who need me. I actually feel guilty closing sometimes. And honestly I have been known to take a child who's parents have no where to turn on a holiday and I am friendly with. I don't advertise it. No one else knows. But those are the real in need parents. BUT I won't stay open for those who want to go get a hair cut or nails done. So. I close. Time to parent up.

I had a client like this, would say they were working.. but get off early to go get hair, nails, groceries, visit, then show up late and say ohhh I'm sorry I'm late but it's sooo hard to get anything done when child is home, and husband and I needed some nooky time, since child still sleeps with us....This same client would say they where working but would show up late all the time, I commented on day about being late and that since dad was usually waking up about 20 mins to 1h before pick up time that he could come so that there would be no late fee, mom was like ohh we can't do that because it's not fair to husband that he had the child home with him, and that they did not think it was fair that I charges then a late fee.. One day she asked if I was open on a Holiday I said no why she said oh cause I need to work that day. So being nice I opened for her that day. I next year I closed on the date and she got mad said that it was not fair to her that I was closing on that day because no she could not go with her mom to a small town yard sale that they go to every year, she then asked me if I had ever been to it, I said no why, she's like oh you should go sometime the whole town is one big yard sale with lots of great things. So I told her that maybe I would go that year since I was going to be closed that day. She was like oh so you are going to still be closed even thou I just mentioned that I need him to be here so that I can go with my mom, I just hate taking him with me and husband don't want him there either. I'm like sorry I'm closed that day....

It's like sometimes they think that we can do it all, what about our "me times" god for bid we take time off to do what they are doing. We cook, clean, play, bath, groceries, hair, nail, shop, visit, Doctors, appointments, nooky, and our own kids 24 / 7, plus your children and you don't see us complaining to often.

SO how come we are always made out to be the bad ones when we get frustrated for those parents that take advantage of our kindness / job title. We do need a break from time to time as well....


SORRY IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE, NOT MY INTENTION....

[Play Care]

I had a client like this, would say they were working.. but get off early to go get hair, nails, groceries, visit, then show up late and say ohhh I'm sorry I'm late but it's sooo hard to get anything done when child is home, and husband and I needed some nooky time, since child still sleeps with us....This same client would say they where working but would show up late all the time, I commented on day about being late and that since dad was usually waking up about 20 mins to 1h before pick up time that he could come so that there would be no late fee, mom was like ohh we can't do that because it's not fair to husband that he had the child home with him, and that they did not think it was fair that I charges then a late fee.. One day she asked if I was open on a Holiday I said no why she said oh cause I need to work that day. So being nice I opened for her that day. I next year I closed on the date and she got mad said that it was not fair to her that I was closing on that day because no she could not go with her mom to a small town yard sale that they go to every year, she then asked me if I had ever been to it, I said no why, she's like oh you should go sometime the whole town is one big yard sale with lots of great things. So I told her that maybe I would go that year since I was going to be closed that day. She was like oh so you are going to still be closed even thou I just mentioned that I need him to be here so that I can go with my mom, I just hate taking him with me and husband don't want him there either. I'm like sorry I'm closed that day....

It's like sometimes they think that we can do it all, what about our "me times" god for bid we take time off to do what they are doing. We cook, clean, play, bath, groceries, hair, nail, shop, visit, Doctors, appointments, nooky, and our own kids 24 / 7, plus your children and you don't see us complaining to often.

SO how come we are always made out to be the bad ones when we get frustrated for those parents that take advantage of our kindness / job title. We do need a break from time to time as well....


SORRY IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE, NOT MY INTENTION....

Mia, this was my issue. I truly don't care what a parent does if I'm open and providing care - BUT I have had clients *lie* about having to work in order for me to be open on minor holidays. That's where I draw the line. That's why I close and no longer listen to sob stories about having to work, etc when I decide to take a personal day or be closed on a holiday. I am off tomorrow - Friday, even though some of my parents have to work tomorrow.
I can't wait to relax, shop, run errands. Maybe I'll even get a mani/pedi

[mia]

Mia, this was my issue. I truly don't care what a parent does if I'm open and providing care - BUT I have had clients *lie* about having to work in order for me to be open on minor holidays. That's where I draw the line. That's why I close and no longer listen to sob stories about having to work, etc when I decide to take a personal day or be closed on a holiday. I am off tomorrow - Friday, even though some of my parents have to work tomorrow.
I can't wait to relax, shop, run errands. Maybe I'll even get a mani/pedi

::: That's for sure.... Hope you have a great day pampering yourself you deserve it.....